Younger? I saw a LOT of people on Epic inthe late 20s to lower 40s, especially in the Howl at the Moon shows. They were having a great time, really partying and quite friendly.
I do think there is a whole younger generation of cruiser out there, but mostly on shorter trips. The may splurge for a 7-day cruise once in awhile.
Now...
Quote:
Paul, I haven't read in the WSJ were the cruiselines are losing money. If the competition can do it that NCL can do it or belly up.
Actually, NCL is the only cruise line actually losing money in recent quarters, but they have not yet announced a quarter with Epic sailings included. It should be interesting to see.
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I am the editor, but I also speculate, ask questions and play devil's advocate. I reserve the right to change my mind.
Hey Paul,
Yes I agree that the cost of the theater lighting and the entertainment has gone up and that back when those costs were less but back when the ships only held 1200 passengers also. They now hold thousands and the net revenue is much higher than it was back then. I myself will not pay for anything extra on a cruise and even find it ofensive to have my tips automatically placed on my tab. Tips are for good service and not to subsidize the cruise lines lousy salaries.
These lines can build massive ships at a who cares what the price is pace and they need to take into consideration the size of all the areas needed on that ship to entertain the guests they have no problem taking a fair from. Anyone who pays extra for anything on these ships is doing no more than promoting the pick pocket atmosphere that now goes on when cruising. I don't enjoy having to pay for everything or for a better seat, food etc. I pay my fair and expect to leave that world behind on land when I board. If they can no longer provide the all included in the fair I pay then it's time for me to take my money to another vacation venue.
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Past Cruises: Explorer of the Seas 2008 Explorer of the Seas 2007 Carnival Victory 2007 Explorer of the Seas 2006 Legend 2005 Miracle 2004 Disney Wonder 2004; Pride 2003 Legend 2002 Disney Wonder 2002 Destiny 2001 Victory 2000 Triumph 1999 Jubilee 1998 Imagination 1997 Imagination 1996 Fascination 1995 Ecstasy 1993 Fantasy 1990 Jubilee 1990 NCL Seaward 1989 Jubilee 1988
I think more needs to be made on how NCL is compaired to Royal Caribbean. There are less fees on RCCL and their intertainment is outstanding! The are Ice shows, a Royal Promenade, with Royal Mardi Gras Parades, Great shows, etc., etc. Overal for the money, I think RCCL is a great value over NCL; plus on the whole it's ships far outshine (hear that Epic!!) anything in NCL's fleet.
Another issue is that fees may start small, but if people accept them they will keep on increasing.
This could be a start in the downfall of the cruise industry.
TM
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CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Today's business schools don't teach the future MBAs of America to ask what a product or service is worth, oh no. Today's schools teach the students to figure out what the market will pay.
When something is new, they do a trial-and-error process. They pick a price on the low end and see how that goes. If the results look good, they test the waters by raising the price, and then comparing the results. They eventually zero in on the "sweet spot" that makes the most money for the company.
The concept of "voting with your wallet" is not just a phrase, folks. IF you open your wallet and pay, then you are sending a signal that you want to pay for whatever it is you've just paid for. If there are more than a handful of you who do that, the business people behind the decision will conclude that this is a good thing. They don't really care to hear about how you paid but were unhappy about having to pay - they quit listening when you forked over cash. You just told them that you WILL pay, and that's all they care to hear.
Please bring back the way things used to be as far as cruises go.
Ever since they started the special restaurants, the nickel and diming gets worse every year. :-x -------
TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
I see you are REALLY adamant about this, you have been posting ever since this topic started. You are not alone, a lot of people agree with you, but for you it is an important topic.
I am not saying I disagree with you, but I will say that after having stood in lin for an hour for a front row seat for Blue Man Group I certainly would have paid at least $5 for a reserved seat.
As we noted, NCL has raised the prices for the Cirque Dreams & Dinner by double ($30 and $20) and the Murder Mystery to $25. Those are shows that just happen to have food - it is not special food. Si it has already started (they would have had to feed you anyway).
Now, I think it is important once again to point ot that Carnival has VERY few extra charges.
Carnival has very good comedy shows, and good stage shows.
As far Royal Caribbean entertainment goes, George is also very salient: their entertainment is first-class; Hairspray and Chicago plus their Ice-shows which I happen to like even better than their stage shows - no extra charges there.
I haven't had a chance to see a decent AquaTheater show on RCL yet, but I have heard they are getting better.
The planned entertainment by Cunard for the New Queen Elizabeth is amazing - they have a show with as many as 26 different participant castmembers. They have twice as many stage shows as most cruise ships.
The charges that to me are most egregious are fortunately for things I almost never buy: pictures, cabanas, towels, spa services...
I dont mind paying extra for special food - good food is a small pleasure in life I enjoy. If I can get a 1.5-pound fresh-steamed Maine lobster for $25 on a ship I will do it.
Yes, they offer lobster in the dining room, but you get a 3 oz Caribbean lobster tail that is over-cooked and rubbery. I want the sweet flaky-cheese-texture lobster that bursts flavor into your mouth.
But I feel there will always be cruise lines that remain like Carnival.
__________________
I am the editor, but I also speculate, ask questions and play devil's advocate. I reserve the right to change my mind.
I see you are REALLY adamant about this, you have been posting ever since this topic started. You are not alone, a lot of people agree with you, but for you it is an important topic.
I am not saying I disagree with you, but I will say that after having stood in lin for an hour for a front row seat for Blue Man Group I certainly would have paid at least $5 for a reserved seat.
As we noted, NCL has raised the prices for the Cirque Dreams & Dinner by double ($30 and $20) and the Murder Mystery to $25. Those are shows that just happen to have food - it is not special food. Si it has already started (they would have had to feed you anyway).
Now, I think it is important once again to point ot that Carnival has VERY few extra charges.
Carnival has very good comedy shows, and good stage shows.
As far as entertainment goes, George is also very salient: their entertainment is first-class; Hairspray and Chicago plus their Ice-shows which I happen to like even better than their stage shows - no extra charges there.
I haven't had a chance to see a decent AquaTheater show on RCL yet, but I have heard they are getting better.
The planned entertainment by Cunard for the New Queen Elizabeth is amazing - they have a show with as many as 26 different participant castmembers. They have twice as many stage shows as most cruise ships.
The charges that to me are most egregious are fortunately for things I almost never buy: pictures, cabanas, towels, spa services...
I dont mind paying extra for special food - good food is a small pleasure in life I enjoy. If I can get a 1.5-pound fresh-steamed Maine lobster for $25 on a ship I will do it.
Yes, they offer lobster in the dining room, but you get a 3 oz Caribbean lobster tail that is over-cooked and rubbery. I want the sweet flaky-cheese-texture lobster that bursts flavor into your mouth.
But I feel there will always be cruise lines that remain like Carnival.
When does the price increase for the murder mystery lunch take affect? When I booked mine for my 9 October cruise it was still $15. This is the first I've heard of this particular increase (I knew about the Cirque increase, which takes affect on the 25 Sept sailing).
I'm interested in the feedback from the 25 September sailing as I've heard that NCL has made improvements to the meal served for Cirque.
Regarding the date the prices go up - this is what I got from NCL:
You are correct in that Cirque Dreams and Dinner and the Murder Mystery prices are changing on Norwegian Epic’s 9/25 sailing because of the high demand and popularity of both. In addition, with Cirque Dreams and Dinner we are enhancing the menu starting on the 9/25 sailing.
__________________
I am the editor, but I also speculate, ask questions and play devil's advocate. I reserve the right to change my mind.
I hope they incorporated assigned seating to prevent the fiasco that has been reported over and over with "table hogs!" With a higher surcharge, people are going to expect more and - if its still a mess - get ready for the negative reviews to significantly increase!
Lets be honest with ourselves here; if a line, such as NCL purposely builds a very small showroom on a 4,500 person vessel, a few things stand to reason. Having a very few seats, means there will be (by design) high demand for the limited supply. Thus, NCL can continue to increase the price, through Las Vegas levels. For the circus show, I see the price doubling gain in a few moths and then in less than a year, doubling again. By design NCL could possibly get $100/150 per ticket, just like in Vegas. I mean they do have a captive audience of 4,500 with little to do at night. All three main shows are "name brands", so Vegas style pricing is a real possibility.
Let me be clear here, I believe the Epic is basically a Harrah's at sea: believe me, NOTHING at Harrah's is free or by definition reasonably priced. Think of what you spend at a day at the Ball Park or NBA game, now you get the idea.
Boy, sail a brand new ship out in the sping, and, raise the price in the fall, I think that's terrible....I am on the Epic soon,and, I didn't book either one of these options. I wish the Murder mystery had been in the evening,and after seeing Cirque, in Vegas, years back,I was not keen on seeing it again.
But, for people who booked, thinking a lower price,and finding it higher, a bit of a not so nice surprise.
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I haven't had a chance to see a decent AquaTheater show on RCL yet, but I have heard they are getting better.
.
The one we saw on our last cruise was excellent, and we didnot have to pay extra to see it.
TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Younger? I saw a LOT of people on Epic inthe late 20s to lower 40s, especially in the Howl at the Moon shows. They were having a great time, really partying and quite friendly.
I do think there is a whole younger generation of cruiser out there, but mostly on shorter trips. The may splurge for a 7-day cruise once in awhile.
Now...
Actually, NCL is the only cruise line actually losing money in recent quarters, but they have not yet announced a quarter with Epic sailings included. It should be interesting to see.
The can loose as much money as they can, it won't effect them, as Apollo Managment & Star Cruises are their owners. Both have lots of money to burn, so NCL should be fine for a while. However, Apollo may have finacial trouble in the near future, however this is more with its Harrah's investment.
they would not return there Cirque Dreams investment
even if they would sell tickets for 250 USD.
there are maybe app. 20 people in show, 10 waitress, costumes etc.
meal...
all such stuff is extremly expencive ON any SHIP.
OK nobody would pay 250 USD for Cirque Dreams.
But as for now Tickets are really very cheap.
If some people pay 20 USD for cold ass in Ice-Bar - other people "should" be able to
pay 40-50 USD for nice show.
Well the Epic is a ship with 4,500++ people so perhaps they would if the show included a better dinner (think steakhouse quality) with unlimited drinks. I don't think they will break even on the Epic itself.
Home Lines used to have a fee to reserve a lounge chair at the pool ($1.00 a day that my parents gladly paid)
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Eric Trautmann
Home Lines Doric 78, Oceanic, Homeric 85,Celebrity Horizon, Zenith,NCl Pride of America 05 (Honeymoon), Spirit 09-30-06,NCL Gem 12-29-07,NCL Spirit 5-17-08
NCL Dawn 7-27-08,NCL Sky 7-3-09
NCL Dawn Sept 20,2009 NCL Jewel Pride Of America
Home Lines used to have a fee to reserve a lounge chair at the pool ($1.00 a day that my parents gladly paid)
Yep, they did and it had your name in it (top rt or left corner wherein there was a slot to put your name on it) which served you all week.No need to worry about where to park your tush all week!
See you've been on Home Lines cruises--met hubby on Oceanic in 1978 for their "Linger Longer" cruise from NYC to the Bahamas. Man, was their food great (gained 10 lbs on that one but had pasta twice a day--once by the pool at lunch and then again at night in the dining room). Lots of good memories from that line and made many friends with the crew and cruise director (last one on Homeric was Bill Gable). Brings back alot of good memories!
Regarding the date the prices go up - this is what I got from NCL:
You are correct in that Cirque Dreams and Dinner and the Murder Mystery prices are changing on Norwegian Epic’s 9/25 sailing because of the high demand and popularity of both. In addition, with Cirque Dreams and Dinner we are enhancing the menu starting on the 9/25 sailing.
When I went on Enchantment of the Seas and Jewel, one had to pay for the Murder Mystery Dinner (which was held in the Portofino).
Paul, I don't even pay an "early bird" fee to get a reserved seat on airlines. It does not matter to me, we all get there the same time anyway. To pay a surcharge for early bird sitting in a ship's theater? No way; had my share of B'way plays and MSG and even Phila Wachovia/Spectrum concerts--been there, done that and do not book a cruise based on the entertainment factor (BMG or otherwise). I'm on vacation and that means no rushing/pushing to stand in line for anything.
However, I am willing to pay to eat in specialty restaurants on ships because we enjoy fine dining. There is a difference, however, in that when we have our reservation, we usually have an assigned table (and it is the same for the entire week and it is empty and clean by the time we arrive) each night and we time it so that there is no one waiting to gain access to the restaurant except the Maitre'D at the front desk.
However, whatever floats your boat. Everyone has their likes/dislikes and we should all respect that.
The whole concept of charging extra for this rubs me the wrong way. And I am particularly opposed to special considerations only for suite guests.
It seems as if NCL wants to go back to a two class experience. I don't like the concept, but I can see it. Make one or more decks first class; include inside rooms, outside rooms, and suites so that solo passengers like me, families traveling together, and other people who won't buy a suite can take advantage of the benefits. Charge proportionally more for the cruise for these passengers, and give them [include] first class perks like better seating, premium meals, priority boarding and tendering. To just limit these perks to suite passengers is patently unfair to other people. I doubt that any cruise line would be happy selling me a suite when I sail by myself.
They can also offer a tourist class that gets a room, food at the buffet, and use of the pool and casino.
This way we can choose the cruise experience we want, we pay for what we want to use when we book the vacation.
As I said, I don't like this idea, but this seems to be the way NCL is going. More power to them, if this is their design. But the way you described it in the poll and introductory post was not a fair way to implement it.
charging for seats is putting a band aid on a size problem. if they did a better job designing the ship, this would not be an issue. one less restaurant might be able to provide another 200 to 300 show seats. this is their first attempt at a ship over 100,000 tons, lets see what they learn.
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RCCL Navagitor of the Seas - Nov 26, 2005 (W.Caribbean) | Carnival Glory - April 15, 2006 (E.Caribbean) | Carnival Victory - Aug 21, 2006 (Canada) | Carnival Glory - July 28, 2007 (W.Caribbean) | Carnival Fascination - Aug 4, 2008 West Caribbean | HAL Eruodam - April 11, 2009 East Caribbean | Carnival Fredom - Aug 9, 2009 | Carnival Pride Feb 20,2011 (Bahamas) | NCL PrideOfAmerica April 16,2011 (Hawaii)
I understand the resentment for suite guests getting priority BUT when I travel in suites, I appreciate it ;>)
Have travelled in closets on older ships (Fair Princess anyone?) and I appreciate VIP treatment when I choose to pay for it (or go with "RCI" as a D+ member).
I will have no problem being seated prior to the doors being opened on the "Epic." I can't defend that it smacks of a 2 class system when the ship has it's own courtyard for us. It is nice to see that my extra $ are getting me more than cabin space though. No snobbery here, I love my blue jeans and T-shirts so the butler can take a break while unpack my own duds!
I think people travel on cruises to have the most all items paid for and nothing to worry about. I dont mind paying a dining cover for specialty restaurants or even a small cover for entertainment. However, the cost of my cabin should go down if the cruise is to become more a la carte.
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