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Old August 20th, 2012, 10:13 PM
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Default Hate Speech

Did you see what Hank Williams, Jr. said at the Iowa State Fair the other day?

"We've got a Muslim president who hates farming, hates the military, hates the U.S. and we hate him!"

Disgusting. It's stuff like this that makes me think twice about my support for the First Amendment. Reports say the the folks at the fair lapped it up.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by AR View Post
Did you see what Hank Williams, Jr. said at the Iowa State Fair the other day?

"We've got a Muslim president who hates farming, hates the military, hates the U.S. and we hate him!"

Disgusting. It's stuff like this that makes me think twice about my support for the First Amendment. Reports say the the folks at the fair lapped it up.

I did not hear this previously but nothing surprises me .
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Old August 20th, 2012, 10:29 PM
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I am not one to hate anybody. I am however amazed at how stupid people can be.

I imagine that Hank Jr. must have been using some heavy duty stuff. He can't possibly be that hateful, or that ignorant.

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Old August 20th, 2012, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
He can't possibly be that hateful, or that ignorant.

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Of course he can. Not only is this kind of talk despicable, it's dangerous too. And very few will denounce him.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 10:53 PM
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Well, not to get into politics or political arguments but A.R., but how can you like the First Amendment when you hear what you like, and not like it when you hear something foolish, such as this was?
As the old saying goes, I may not like what you say but I do defend your right to say it.
Sometimes we just have to consider the source from which some things come and the people it was directed to.
Peace and all that Bro!!
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Old August 20th, 2012, 10:57 PM
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He's an ignorant ass. I'm glad the NFL dumped him a few years ago
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Old August 21st, 2012, 05:54 AM
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I know this is slightly off topic but…..

The unknown begets Fear.
Fear begets Hate.
Hate begets Bigotry.
Bigotry begets Racism.

So before hating someone get to know them. (with obvious exceptions)

I bet he has never met the president in person.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 07:48 AM
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I didn't hear it until now, and could have gone the rest of my life without it.

I am not surprised that it was said, and equally not surprised it was brought up here.

There is a lot of hate talk going around. It sure makes a difference who says it.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Well, not to get into politics or political arguments but A.R., but how can you like the First Amendment when you hear what you like, and not like it when you hear something foolish, such as this was?
As the old saying goes, I may not like what you say but I do defend your right to say it.
Sometimes we just have to consider the source from which some things come and the people it was directed to.
Peace and all that Bro!!
Ron--That's always the conundrum, and that's why I've always supported the First Amendment overall. Disagreement is what makes the world go around, and if you've seen my posts you know that I have absolutely no problem with disagreement!

And yeah, I agree that you have to consider the source. He's a moron, and it's easy for reasonable, thoughtful people to just shake their heads and ignore him. But the problem is that he has a fan base. There are lots of people who love him and see him as a role model.

Combine hate speech with adoring fans, and you have a very bad and dangerous brew. It is when I start having those dark thoughts that I begin to ask myself whether there should be some sort of circuit breaker on the First Amendment.

I never thought I'd ever get to that point, but there you are.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 09:57 AM
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I never heard anybody come to GW's defence... Funny how people can write book about killing one pesident but it you mutter a negative thing about another.... oh boy you have crossed the line. Ask a comedian that made fun of Obama how it went.. where are the Saturady Night Live skits? It's not like there isn't good material.
The vitriol expressed by the left quite publickly still has a bad taste in my mouth, but I will defend their rights to that opinion and being able to publicly express it.
As soon as someone on the left doesn't like what they hear, we need to ban somehting... I guess free speech isn't equal.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 10:06 AM
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BigMac you must not be a fan of Jay Leno. He picks on Our president all the time.
Other comedians do as well.
Personnaly I think that the hatred expressed by the right wing nut-jobs is hurting our country and making it more divided.

But having an Idiot like Hank Jr. preach hate is something totally different.

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Old August 21st, 2012, 10:24 AM
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Personnaly I think that the hatred expressed by the right wing nut-jobs is hurting our country and making it more divided.

This is what I am talking about. I am RIGHT WING, and so I am a nut job?

You just said something about THOUSANDS of people. Good People.

WHY the **** can't we communicate these days without calling names?
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Old August 21st, 2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by BigMac View Post
I never heard anybody come to GW's defence... Funny how people can write book about killing one pesident but it you mutter a negative thing about another.... oh boy you have crossed the line. Ask a comedian that made fun of Obama how it went.. where are the Saturady Night Live skits? It's not like there isn't good material.
The vitriol expressed by the left quite publickly still has a bad taste in my mouth, but I will defend their rights to that opinion and being able to publicly express it.
As soon as someone on the left doesn't like what they hear, we need to ban somehting... I guess free speech isn't equal.
By trying to position the condemnation of hate speech as a partisan issue, you are admitting that you are part of the problem and not part of the solution. And by trying to equate comedy and satire aimed at politicians with hate speech, you are simply proving that you don't "get it."

I am against hate speech from any quarter against anyone. I am fully in favor of satire from anyone directed at anyone. It is a time-honored and valuable diversion and escape valve. Honest laughter never hurt anybody, and we've been skewering politicians on the blade of humor since the dawn of the nation.

Most people here are smart enough to understand the differences among honest debate, satire, and hate speech. Your claim that "as soon as someone on the left doesn't like what they hear, we need to ban something" is, among other things, factually incorrect. Historically, the left has been as great a champion of the First Amendment as the right has been of the Second. More than you or anyone else here will ever know, I have for many decades been a passionate advocate for free speech. It is amazing that when I express some misgivings about the free flow of rank bile in our society that suddenly the right wing becomes the free speech "saints."

Stop trying to stir debate, humor and hate speech up in the same pot. They don't mix. Period.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 12:47 PM
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A.R., I basically agree with you to an extent and believe it or not, I do agree with you on several issues you comment on--just usually stay quite and out of the debates..
I think Hank Jr. wouldn't even be an " entertainer " were it not for having a famous dad, who was supposedly an " entertainer " in his own right.
And having said all that, I have to say this :
Ever listen to " Rap " music? The lyrics usually make no sense at all, just a bunch of four letter words thrown together but yet, it has an audience base numbered into the tens of millions. Personally, I'd take it and any station off the air in an instant that played that " crap." But yet, they are allowed to spout it off , so the rest of us have to turn a deaf ear, if possible, or turn the station to keep from hearing it.
And, how can we leave out the most foul mouthed person of all time---Howard Stern, who has made hundreds of millions of dollars by simply being as foul mouthed as anyone could be on the radio ---yet, were it not for people supporting him by listening to his filth, he would be an unknown.
So, to me , it kind of goes around and around. I don't agree with it and do believe it hurts our country in the eyes of the world but what do we do? Once we start eliminating parts of our so -called rights, where does it end?
And one last thing---if you want to see something that's about as sick as it gets on T.V., turn on The Maury Show and watch it for a few minutes, if you can stand it that long!! As I said, I don't agree with that sort of garbage and there's no doubt in my mind, it does harm this country in the eyes of the world. But about the only choice we have it to switch stations and not watch or listen to it. As long as there is an audience for this kind of hate, filth and garbage, there will always be those who exploit it for their financial gain and the country be damned!
As before, peace and all that !!
P.S.--- I'm out of the debate--it's going to get too political now !!
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Old August 21st, 2012, 01:29 PM
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[QUOTE=Luanne Russo;1442935]This is what I am talking about. I am RIGHT WING, and so I am a nut job?

QUOTE]

Luanne you are right wing, but you are nice and polite and respectful of other people. I called you once and I enjoyed talking to you you. We don't have to vote for the same candidates. We just have to make sure that we all keep our freedom to vote as we wish.

What we don't need are the extremists on either side.

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Old August 21st, 2012, 01:54 PM
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In my humble opinion there are "Nut Jobs" on the right and there are some on the left as well. I consider myself a left wing progressive politically but I truly respect the first ammendment and the right to free speech.

I do dislike the license people take, particularly when thay are public figures, as they tell blatant lies , such as these and expect people to believe them. The problem is when such lies are repeated over and over again... they become¨"truths" in the minds and hearts of many people.
And they block any debate about real issues.

I much prefer to have a real debate about real issues that are often so very important to the people of the U.S. and even to others throughout the world.

There can be no debate about President Obamas record on terrorism. He has had many successful captures, arrests etc. of very high level terrorist suspects. He has kept the U.S. free of serious terrorist acts unlike the previous administration. Doesn´t this show through his actions his concern and love for his country?

Or so it seems to me!
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Old August 21st, 2012, 02:14 PM
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The left is only a champion of free speech when they agree with what you say.
Let a "right wing" comentator say anything that offend anyone and there are call to remove them from the air.

You may think I am part of the problem but I see the left as THE problem with free speech.

No I dont watch Jay Leno..
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Old August 21st, 2012, 02:25 PM
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Being extremist does not make someone a nut job, but it does raise flags. If you are on the fringe you are more visible than if you are in the middle.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
Personnaly I think that the hatred expressed by the right wing nut-jobs is hurting our country and making it more divided.

This is what I am talking about. I am RIGHT WING, and so I am a nut job?

You just said something about THOUSANDS of people. Good People.

WHY the **** can't we communicate these days without calling names?
Being right-wing does not make you a nutjob, however there are right-wing nut jobs. In addition to Hank:

Dave Mustaine of Megadeath- Claims Obama arranged the movie theater and Sikh Temple massacre to advance his gun control agenda

Ted Nugent - Where to begin? Speculated that he might take up arms if Obama is reelected.

Donald Trump - Birther

Joe Arpaio - Birther

Michelle Malkin - Once accused Rachael Ray of symathizing with terrorists because of the design of a scarf she wore in an ad.

Not Nut Job, but scary:

Rush Limbaugh - Serial hatemonger

Since this thread concerns the right, I won't comment extensively on those on the left that I also dislike intensely: Keith Olberman, Jeananne Garafalo, Al Sharpton, just to name a few.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 05:12 PM
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Pretty good list Doug, on both sides.

Some days I tend to add Reverend Jesse, mostly beause a lot of the time I think he's in it for himself more than for what he believes.

And then there's a certain Congressman from Missouri. . .My old college buddy Nan weighed in from her home in the Missouri Ozarks today with some interesting views. But I don't even want to go there. . .
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Old August 21st, 2012, 06:10 PM
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I guess another legal question would be what if this guy incited a riot?

And what if attendees were trampled to death?

What legal liability would he have then? Does Free Speech trump public safety?

As with any right, there are limits to that right, and responsibilities that come with it.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 07:38 PM
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Hate speech (including as far as I'm concened as lies and innuendos) is intolerable regardless of from what quarter it originates and yes, there's been more than enough of it from both sides although in the main stream media, for some reason one only is informed of the hate speech from the "right."

Never have figured that one out.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddDH View Post
Hate speech (including as far as I'm concened as lies and innuendos) is intolerable regardless of from what quarter it originates and yes, there's been more than enough of it from both sides although in the main stream media, for some reason one only is informed of the hate speech from the "right."

Never have figured that one out.


Guess what side they are on.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
Pretty good list Doug, on both sides.

Some days I tend to add Reverend Jesse, mostly beause a lot of the time I think he's in it for himself more than for what he believes.

And then there's a certain Congressman from Missouri. . .My old college buddy Nan weighed in from her home in the Missouri Ozarks today with some interesting views. But I don't even want to go there. . .
I was active with Jesse Jackson in the early days of the Civil Rights Movement . He was ALWAYS in it for himself .
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Old August 21st, 2012, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Palm View Post
In my humble opinion there are "Nut Jobs" on the right and there are some on the left as well. I consider myself a left wing progressive politically but I truly respect the first ammendment and the right to free speech.

I do dislike the license people take, particularly when thay are public figures, as they tell blatant lies , such as these and expect people to believe them. The problem is when such lies are repeated over and over again... they become¨"truths" in the minds and hearts of many people.
And they block any debate about real issues.

I much prefer to have a real debate about real issues that are often so very important to the people of the U.S. and even to others throughout the world.



There can be no debate about President Obamas record on terrorism. He has had many successful captures, arrests etc. of very high level terrorist suspects. He has kept the U.S. free of serious terrorist acts unlike the previous administration. Doesn´t this show through his actions his concern and love for his country?

Or so it seems to me!

It's it wonderful that Obama got all the bad guys. He must be really tired from all that work. Came up with the idea all by himself, while in the senate, because the plans started years ago.

Next time he might like to take the military, seals, etc with him. Oh that's right, I saw him on TV today saying he has no use for the seals, because they dared to tell him to shut his mouth up, when telling secrets to the press.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 08:07 PM
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Hillary Clinton's book sheds new light on Obama and Bin Laden ,a must read for every thinking American.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
It's it wonderful that Obama got all the bad guys. He must be really tired from all that work. Came up with the idea all by himself, while in the senate, because the plans started years ago.

Next time he might like to take the military, seals, etc with him. Oh that's right, I saw him on TV today saying he has no use for the seals, because they dared to tell him to shut his mouth up, when telling secrets to the press.
Luanne.. I was away at a golf tournament today, so didn't see any TV, but if you can think of where you saw Obama say that, I'd love to google it. Because it's impossible to believe he said that. I'm thinking that it's your interpretation of what he said.

I have never seen him take any more credit for killing Bin Laden than any other Commander in Chief would do, and I remember when he made the annoucement he credited Seal Team 6, ,and all the teams involved.

I also remember during his primary run, he stated that "if he had actionable intelligence" he would go after Bin Laden. (And no, he didn't mean he would personally run into Pakistan).

But, at the time he was called naive to think he could unilaterally breach another country's soverignty.

Since he became President, he authorized a huge uptick in drone attacks in Pakistan from what President Bush was doing. And that has program been incredibly successful in killing "bad guys", without putting more troops in harms way (though no doubt they are aided by intelligence agents on the ground).

If you think back to when the US troops had Osama Bin Laden cornered in the mountains of Bora Bora, President Bush made the decision to allow the Afghans to "negotiate" with him for his surrender. They negotiated long enough for him to escape.

Had he not made the decision to allow negotiation, and had they killed him, I believe you know, he would have been on National television announcing that "they had got him!".

It's all political reality in those situations, and frankly I think even those who don't like Obama's fiscal policies, should admit he has done a reasonably good job on decision making in regard to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and how his administration has handled the "war on terror".
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Old August 21st, 2012, 11:10 PM
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In Canada we certainly have the right to Freedom of Speech as well. But, we do have laws against Hate Speech as well. There is onerous criteria to be met to prove Hate Speech, but on occassion it has been done successfully.

I don't know if the same such law exists in the United States. ?

This partiuclar case would certainly not even be close to be considered "hate speech". Nut cases are allowed to be nut cases.

On thing about these "nut cases" is they often do WAY MORE to hurt their "party" or "cause", even if some within their midst will "eat it up".
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Old August 21st, 2012, 11:37 PM
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One thing about these "nut cases" is they often do WAY MORE to hurt their "party" or "cause", even if some within their midst will "eat it up".
From your lips to God's ears. Thanks for saving me a lot of typing, Kuki.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 04:36 AM
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Kuki, you certainly are in tune with with US events. I certainly apreciate your point of view.

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