Go Back   CruiseMates Cruise Community and Forums > People > Open Debate
Register Forgot Password?

Open Debate The only forum to discuss politics and religion. Please keep it civil.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old August 21st, 2012, 03:06 PM
Member
Familiar Face
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 98
Default Deja Vu in Middle East

President Obama draws 'red line' on Syria?

Seems like President Obama is going to intervene if Assad moves, uses chemical or biological weapons against rebel forces. This sounds like deja vu except Bush said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq which did not exist. Wow this is pretty interesting the redline for military intervention is movement or use of chemical or biological weapons. That is a pretty wide spectrum of triggers. What is going to be the source of this information fly over satellites or will it be the gihadist's rebels. In Iraq, the proof of Iraq's use of poison gas were the bodies of dead Kurds, but that proof was not used as the trigger for the Iraq war.

So President Obama is probably going to use the old-Bush aerial observation technique which brings to mind the question how do you differentiate between a mobile biological weapons trailer and a transportation trailer or a poison gas plant and a baby food plant. And if they can't get aerial evidence the CIA, NSA and FBI maybe able to supply the evidence. I can see Hilary Clinton going before the United Nations as Colin Powell did presenting irrefutable evidence of ????
But this is speculation, Mr. Obama may not even resort to getting a mandate for action from the United Nations as Bush did. I think he already knows he is going to face two big vetoes for military intervention from China and Russia. Of course, he can go back to the tried and true multilateral coalition force action. It worked in Libya. Get Italy and France to join in a coalition with our great allies Britian and Canada and some small Caribbean and never-heard-of-countries. That will work.

Don't worry if you have to drive to make a cruise, the country's oil reserves will be tapped and oil released. And EPA standards will be reduced so that more gas can be produced.

But then what happens if the Iranians decide to have a non-aggression pact with Syria. Like the Germans and Japanese had during World War 2? Does the military intervention extend to Iran? What's that line, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Don't worry be happy. Cruise on.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old August 21st, 2012, 05:00 PM
Mean Dean's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 2,280
Default

The Syrian situation is a much tougher nut to crack than was the Libyan situation.

In that conflict, the U.S. role was just a path-clearing mission, to allow NATO warplanes to impose a no-fly zone over Libya. The U.S. part of Operation Odyssey Dawn, was United States Navy Ohio-class ballistic missile submarine, USS Florida SSGN 728 firing 93 Tomahawk cruise missiles at Libyan air defense targets, 90 of which were combat effective.

Intervening in Syria, with their premier air defense network, is going to be a costly undertaking in terms of downed aircraft, lost & POW pilots, money, and the time it would take to achieve even limited objectives.

There are no good options in Syria, which is probably why the Worlds has not already intervened. When it's easy (Libya) the World intervenes relatively quickly -- when it's very difficult, not so quickly.......
__________________
Dean


Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 03:30 PM
Member
Familiar Face
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 98
Default Excellent observations and comments. One other thought

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Dean View Post
The Syrian situation is a much tougher nut to crack than was the Libyan situation.

In that conflict, the U.S. role was just a path-clearing mission, to allow NATO warplanes to impose a no-fly zone over Libya. The U.S. part of Operation Odyssey Dawn, was United States Navy Ohio-class ballistic missile submarine, USS Florida SSGN 728 firing 93 Tomahawk cruise missiles at Libyan air defense targets, 90 of which were combat effective.

Intervening in Syria, with their premier air defense network, is going to be a costly undertaking in terms of downed aircraft, lost & POW pilots, money, and the time it would take to achieve even limited objectives.

There are no good options in Syria, which is probably why the Worlds has not already intervened. When it's easy (Libya) the World intervenes relatively quickly -- when it's very difficult, not so quickly.......
Today I read that Iraq is helping Iran with finances - probably our money - and that the US is building up it Asia forces. Not only because of North Korea but also China's efforts with antiship missiles and navy capabilities.

What is more scary is the Titanic aircraft carriers which are big, fat sitting ducks vulnerable to catastrophic losses as they are put in harms way. The terrorists. They are like the Kamikazes of World War 2 and the big carriers are vulnerable to 9/11 passenger aircraft attacks. Also, I believe the Navy is afraid to shoot down a passenger jet because they don't want another black eye like when they shot down the Iranian passenger jet Iran Air Flight 655, a civilian jet airliner shot, on 3 July 1988 as it flew over the Strait of Hormuz.
Aside from passenger jet attacks. These ships are vulnerable to the antiship missiles, mines, and manned torpedo attacks. What other choices. Land based aircraft?

But aside from that I was thinking that President Obama and his campaign staff has decided to draw a phoney line in the sand which they know they will not try enforce and yet it makes good press. It demonstrates that the president is tough and ready to go to military intervention????
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old August 27th, 2012, 06:51 PM
Paul Motter's Avatar
Administrator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: in my office!
Posts: 10,828
Send a message via AIM to Paul Motter
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iconic View Post
Mr. Obama may not even resort to getting a mandate for action from the United Nations as Bush did.
Did he get a mandate? As I recall the UN voted against the resolution. He decided to go anyway which is one of the top reasons why he is a reviled President. That's the way I remeber it anyway. I remember Colin Powell being VERY uncomfortable as he was delivering his basically premiseless speech to the UN.

Now - based on Saddam Hussein's actions in the past he was already sanctioned by the U.N. He was repotedly so sick of their interference that he started getting "uppity" and that alone was considered suspicious - kind of like entrapment in a way.

I don't know - I just remember thinking at the time that Georgy was making a big mistake by going ahead with that war, even of he did deserve it, and it didn't do anything for our foreign policy, either.

Only the Brits, Aussies, Czechs and (I don't really know) few other nations went in with us. Obama paid the Brits back by returning the bust of Winston Churchill his first week in office. I don't think that was called for, either. two wrongs don't make a right.

Man - politics can just be so crazy at times.

But once again I want to point out that after Obama was briefed he didn't exactly pull the troops out right away, did he? Sometimes I wonder what really happened over there - but I don't some kind of Oliver Stone or Michael Moore movie to tell me what to think, either.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2012, 11:08 AM
Paul Motter's Avatar
Administrator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: in my office!
Posts: 10,828
Send a message via AIM to Paul Motter
Default

I head a reporter say last night that he did get a mandate - but I don't recall it that way. I could be wrong.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
middle east cruise on NCL Jade, Oct 15-11 pammie2 Norwegian Cruise Lines 0 July 14th, 2011 06:09 PM
Regent still going to the Middle east Paul Motter Regent Seven Seas Cruises 2 February 27th, 2011 03:23 PM
TV-Deja VU venice Chit - Chat for Cruisers 6 August 2nd, 2010 02:49 AM
Dec 5-23, 2007: Med/Middle East Kalbi Seeking Cruise Companion 1 October 11th, 2007 03:39 AM
SilverSea Middle East (Silver Cloud 29MAR) Craig S Silversea Cruises 0 December 18th, 2004 11:29 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:57 PM.
design by: Themes by Design

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1