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Old August 24th, 2012, 12:00 PM
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Default Not an Act of Terrorism

We're being told by the constabulary that this morning's mass shooting outside the Empire State Building is "not an act of terrorism."

While I take their point, try telling that to the people with slugs in their butts. I'd be pretty terrified if somebody shot a hole in me while I was walking down the street.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 12:52 PM
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Work place shooting. It's a shame for the wounded and the woman killed.

As for the killer, NYPD anti-terror cops air conditioned the hell out of the guy.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddDH View Post
Work place shooting. It's a shame for the wounded and the woman killed.

As for the killer, NYPD anti-terror cops air conditioned the hell out of the guy.
As well as some of the bystanders
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Old August 24th, 2012, 02:16 PM
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As well as some of the bystanders
Yes, if the reports are correct, the cops seem to have shot at least some of the innocents in the fracas. It will be interesting to see how many.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 03:05 PM
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Default Possibly 8

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Yes, if the reports are correct, the cops seem to have shot at least some of the innocents in the fracas. It will be interesting to see how many.
As of the 2PM news as many as 8 may have been shot by the NYPD .

The guy was a 58 year old Designer who was downsized last year and unable to find work.His target was a former employer .
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Old August 24th, 2012, 03:12 PM
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Hey, when you mess around with firearms in crowded areas, sometimes you have no choice. Remember, we're not talking Hollywood here sportsfans.

That is why such a situation is a tragedy all the way round.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 03:15 PM
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I totally agree ,Todd .
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Old August 24th, 2012, 05:20 PM
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You guys are seriously saying that eight bystander casualties (assuming that winds up being the right number) while gunning down one bad guy is acceptable "collateral damage?"

Doesn't pass the smell test among those of us who are supposed to be "served and protected." Unless by "served" you mean carved up on a platter.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 07:40 PM
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Before condemning anyone, even indirectly, I strongly suggest one learns about ballistics, and why various types of rounds are carried for various types of reasons and of what those rounds are capable.

It's a shame it happens but it's also a shame thousands and thousands of innocent people die in war as well. Try having someone on a busy street start shooting at you, especially when you're a well marked target and they aren't.

BTW, most of those "carved up on a platter" suffered minor wounds.

I only ask (fully knowing that people don't understand) that unless you've been in a combat situation (be it military, law enforcement, etc.) you with hold such comments until you are. Sure, there are instances wherein no bystander has been hit, even in crowded situations, but every situation is different.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 10:01 PM
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So your answer is yes, it is acceptable collateral damage if it happens to go down that way, and the rest of us have no right to believe that it isn't, because we're not out there blastin' away.

OK. At least we know.

The papers are saying that the two cops fired a total of 16 shots, and that seven of them hit the bad guy. There were nine innocents wounded. If the numbers are right and if there aren't any twofers, that would mean that every single shot fired by the cops hit somebody, and most of them the wrong somebody. But we'll see what they say once the gunsmoke clears and they sort it out. Maybe the bad guy fired the few bullets he had left.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 11:51 PM
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Rule 1. You keep shooting until the bad guy is down. You don't wait between shots for effectiveness. Remember AR, this isn't Hollywood to which you are most familiar nor are they novels or novellas.

Is it right? Of course not. Is it sometimes necessary? Of course it is.

To win WWII we had to bomb thousands and thousands of innocent civilians. Is that right? Not in my book it isn't. Is it necessary? Yes, sadly it is.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 11:57 PM
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Default Todd

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddDH View Post
Rule 1. You keep shooting until the bad guy is down. You don't wait between shots for effectiveness. Remember AR, this isn't Hollywood to which you are most familiar nor are they novels or novellas.

Is it right? Of course not. Is it sometimes necessary? Of course it is.

To win WWII we had to bomb thousands and thousands of innocent civilians. Is that right? Not in my book it isn't. Is it necessary? Yes, sadly it is.
On this we disagree .IMHO , the bombing of Hiroshima can never be justified .

Re what happened today ,I guarantee that every person wounded by "friendly fire" will be suing the city of NY .
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Old August 25th, 2012, 06:01 AM
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Laker's Fan,

Actually, I wasn't even considering Hiroshima (over which we will agree to disagree), I was thinking of the bombing of Europe. As for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, do a lot of research on Japan and how they treated their captives and I don't even mean Americans. How many Americans know that many learned historians believe beyond doubt that the Chinese killed as many as 1,000,0000 (yep that's one million) people almost all civilians just over just the Doolittle raid itself that in and of itself killed very few Japanese???? Do you know that even today in Japanese history classes, WWII is downplayed to the point you'd want to throw up?

And yes, we live in a litigious society (most of us anyway as down here such lawsuits are extremely rare and when brought to court are rarely won) so you're right, up there in that part of the country especially in large centers of population, lawsuits go with the territory.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 02:21 PM
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Hopefully lessons can be learned and things be different the next time.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 02:41 PM
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Default Todd

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddDH View Post
Laker's Fan,

Actually, I wasn't even considering Hiroshima (over which we will agree to disagree), I was thinking of the bombing of Europe. As for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, do a lot of research on Japan and how they treated their captives and I don't even mean Americans. How many Americans know that many learned historians believe beyond doubt that the Chinese killed as many as 1,000,0000 (yep that's one million) people almost all civilians just over just the Doolittle raid itself that in and of itself killed very few Japanese???? Do you know that even today in Japanese history classes, WWII is downplayed to the point you'd want to throw up?

And yes, we live in a litigious society (most of us anyway as down here such lawsuits are extremely rare and when brought to court are rarely won) so you're right, up there in that part of the country especially in large centers of population, lawsuits go with the territory.
It is not the place of the US to intercede in the affairs of any country .Conversely we would not appreciate a foreign nation interferring with our country .
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Old August 25th, 2012, 03:50 PM
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Henry,

Do you mean that for Germany as well?
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Old August 25th, 2012, 07:36 PM
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The New York Times has a pretty comprehensive story on what went down, not terribly different from last night's data. . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/ny...e.html?_r=1&hp
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Old August 25th, 2012, 08:07 PM
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I have a question if someone knows the answer. In the Article it says those people sold tour tickets. Can't you go up without a tour? What is the benefit of having a tour?

Thanks
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Old August 26th, 2012, 01:12 AM
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Henry,

Do you mean that for Germany as well?

Lucy:I am referring to the US in 2012 and not in 1942
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Old August 27th, 2012, 11:56 PM
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Hiroshima was mentioned, so I have to say this.

Every American should have the chance to visit the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Harbor.
When you learn how the men died in the Arizona and see the drops of fuel that still seep to the surface after all these years, you will understand why we were justified in droping the Bomb.

The Japanese were lucky that we did not bomb Tokyo. But you better believe that if they could have developed the Bomb first they would have chosen our largest cities.

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Old August 28th, 2012, 01:32 AM
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I believe that Germany was also working on an atomic bomb. I feel sure that he would have dropped it on London.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers Fan View Post
Lucy:I am referring to the US in 2012 and not in 1942

Fred: I was just giving an example.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 09:50 PM
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Default Fred ?

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Fred: I was just giving an example.

My name is Ari ,not Fred
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Old August 28th, 2012, 10:36 PM
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You called me Lucy, so I thought of Fred. You know from "I love Lucy" He was the grouchy, but loving man.
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Old August 28th, 2012, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
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My name is Ari ,not Fred
I'm getting confused.

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Old August 29th, 2012, 12:00 AM
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Default Lucy

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You called me Lucy, so I thought of Fred. You know from "I love Lucy" He was the grouchy, but loving man.

You were calling me Henry .That is not my name .I posted that Lakers Fan is Ari and not to be confused with Henry43 who was just a character that I portrayed .
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Old August 29th, 2012, 12:42 AM
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I am sorry. I have known you as Henry, and it's hard for me to change.

In case you don't get it, I am offering an olive branch. Don't hit me over the head with it.
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Old August 29th, 2012, 09:46 AM
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Default LuAnne

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I am sorry. I have known you as Henry, and it's hard for me to change.

In case you don't get it, I am offering an olive branch. Don't hit me over the head with it.

I'm not interested in an olive branch .While I am open to change my political opinions and in the past I have ,you are not .
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