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Old August 25th, 2012, 07:52 AM
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Default Troops to Syria?

I just heard that Romney is talking about sending troops to Syria if he is elected.

How do you all feel about starting another war?

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Old August 25th, 2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
I just heard that Romney is talking about sending troops to Syria if he is elected.

How do you all feel about starting another war?

TM
Thats just what we need.Lets send some more of are troops over somewhere to get shot at and killed And.how much money did that little Iraq mess cost us? And exactly what did it accomplise? It seems to me we have enough problems of are own to worry about.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 01:28 PM
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I have not heard this at all. Where did you hear this?
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Old August 25th, 2012, 01:34 PM
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Default Romney/Obama

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
I just heard that Romney is talking about sending troops to Syria if he is elected.

How do you all feel about starting another war?

TM

In my opinion no matter who is elected ,Romney or Obama US troops will be in Syria and likely also Iran during the next year .
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Old August 25th, 2012, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakers Fan View Post
In my opinion no matter who is elected ,Romney or Obama US troops will be in Syria and likely also Iran during the next year .
Just what we need!

We are still paying for Vietnam.

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Old August 25th, 2012, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
I have not heard this at all. Where did you hear this?
It's being reported in many news venues such as CNN.

Mitt said this yesterday in a speech in Columbus Ohio.

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Old August 25th, 2012, 02:57 PM
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Okay thanks. In what context did he say it in?

Do you guys believe that we should not go to a country in any situation?

Iran? maybe

Syria would be very difficult.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 03:16 PM
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This is why I dislike these political topics -

If you are going to comment at least strive for a little accuracy.

Romney said he would "consider sending some troops to Syria if he saw a potential danger for the use of chemical weapons"

Nowhere did he say anything about starting another war.

The fact that Obama has done nothing while Israel's most important ally in the Middle East - Egypt, has now been lost to the radical Muslim Brotherhood - and that he has also"warned" Israel not to get involved with Iran developing nuclear capabilities shows just how ineffectual he is in foreign affairs.

Now - I don't know if the war in Iraq was necessary - but ask yourself why Obama has not taken all the troops out of there and Afghanistan if there was not SOME reason for them being there.

It is far too easy to play easy-chair quarterback and act as if you know more than the President - but I am sorry to tell you this - you don't.

Obama said a LOT of things about bringing troops home, closing Guantanemo, etc, before he was briefed by Bush. But as Prez he has been almost as hawkish as Bush - arguably moreso in Afghanistan.

In my opinion, by playing ostrich with Syria and Iran, and insulting Israel, Obama has completely lost any influence we had in the Middle East and we are going to feel the repercussions soon. We may have to do a whole lot more than send troops to Syria - we may have to send them to Egypt - a country with almost half the population of the U.S.

That would be a real war, not a skirmish. Losing Egypt to the radical Islam left was a tragedy. When they tear down the pyramids we will realize who crazy they actually can be.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 03:22 PM
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Thanks Paul,

I was looking on CNN so I could see what Manuel is talking about.

I did notice a lot of talk on what someone else thought would happen, but couldn't find him saying we would go to war if elected.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 05:57 PM
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As far as the middle East goes, the more your stir the crap, the worst it stinks.
We are not going to achieve peace at the point of a gun. A lot of money has been spent and many human lives have have been lost.

The situation in Iraq is still messed-up and once we leave Afghanistan, it will go back to the same backward country it was.

How many wars do we have to participate in before we find an inteligent way to solve our problems?

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Old August 25th, 2012, 06:01 PM
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[QUOTE=Paul Motter;1443617]This is why I dislike these political topics -

If you are going to comment at least strive for a little accuracy.

The accuracy is that we are going to use chemical weapons as an excuse to start another war.
Last time it was weapons of mass destruction.
I guess that's what happens when you run out of Communists.

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Old August 25th, 2012, 06:25 PM
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Manuel,

The only people I know of stirring are those in the Middle East. No one wants to see us involved further in their affairs, but can we sit by and let thousands of people die?

Vietnam wasn't a repub war, it was demos, and a repubs stopped it.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Romney said he would "consider sending some troops to Syria if he saw a potential danger for the use of chemical weapons"
This is essentially what Obama said at a press conference earlier this week... stating that the "red line" would be seeing movement or use of chemical weapons.

With Russia and China still supporting the Assad regime there is little real action to be taken in Syria.

There is certainly US involvement behind the scenes in Syria. But, you have the same problem there that exists in Libya, and Eygpt. There's no way to know what faction ends up in power after the "revolution" ends.

There is no way to determine who "should be" in power who would be in the best interests of the United States. And if that were somehow possible, there's no way to make it so.

The cultures and factions in the Middle East are SO TOTALLY DIFFERENT from America. That lack of truly understanding those differences makes dealing with it quite a task.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
No one wants to see us involved further in their affairs, but can we sit by and let thousands of people die?
Well, that happened at the beginning of WWII.

The USA did not really get into the war until after it was attacked at Pearl Harbor.

Thankfully they did get involved, because without all the allies the end result could have been very different.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
Manuel,

The only people I know of stirring are those in the Middle East. No one wants to see us involved further in their affairs, but can we sit by and let thousands of people die?

Vietnam wasn't a repub war, it was demos, and a repubs stopped it.
People have been dying in Africa for many years and we never got involved.

Eisehower was President when the war in Vietnam started. It does not matter which party starts a war or ends it.
It's just that we will not achieve anything positive in the Middle East. It did not work for the Crusades and it won't work today.

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Old August 26th, 2012, 04:12 AM
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Paul,

One of your comments requires further elaboration. One other requires a historical perspective.

As regards the first, candidate Obama did indeed promise to close the detention facility at the United States Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

He, however, was blocked by the United States Senate from doing so. 20 May 2009, the United States Senate passed an amendment to the Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2009 (H.R. 2346) by a 90-6 vote to block funds needed for the transfer or release of prisoners from Guantanamo Bay. The United States Congress authorizes funds for all government expenditures, including the transfer of combatant detainees from one detention facility to another.

As regards Israel, I have always thought of them as our ally. The Israeli Air Force trains with and flies against its counterparts in the United States Air Force. I have met Israeli Air Force pilots here in the U.S., when they were stationed here for air combat training. The Israeli Air Force flies United States-made F-15 Eagle, and F-16 Fighting Falcon air superiority fighter aircraft, and are as good as any air force in the world, including the United States Air Force.

However much resentment toward our ally still exists, regarding the Israeli Arm Forces attack on a United States Navy vessel.

8 June 1967, Israeli Air Force fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats attacked and nearly sank United States Navy technical research vessel, USS Liberty AGTR 5.

United States Navy vessel USS Liberty AGTR 5 was sailing in International waters, flying United States colors, and was attacked without provocation. USS Liberty was overflown eight times by IAF Nord Noratlas and Mirage III aircraft, one of the Nords flying so close as to rattle USS Liberty’s deck plates.

At 1357 hours, 8 June 1967, IAF warplanes attacked USS Liberty, as her crew was on stand down condition. In the initial assault USS Liberty’s commanding officer, United States Navy Captain William McGonagle was severely injured. Captain McGonagle made it to the bridge and urgently requested assistance. Shortly after, two IAF Dassault Mysteres dropped napalm bombs on USS Liberty, setting her ablaze from her main deck to her bridge. As fire crews fought the napalm flames, signalmen lowered USS Liberty’s tattered colors from her mainmast, and hoisted over-sized colors in their place.

Shortly after, Israeli Navy torpedo boats attacked USS Liberty, firing 5 torpedoes. One torpedo hit USS Liberty on her starboard side, forward of her superstructure, creating a 40-foot wide hole, killing 25 United States Navy sailors and wounding dozens.

Captain McGonagle, nearly bled-out, issued orders for the crew to prepare to abandon USS Liberty. As crews began preparing life rafts for launch, Israeli Navy torpedo boats closed on USS Liberty and strafed her damage control and life boat crews with cannon and machine gun fire. During this attack, one of USS Liberty’s life rafts, bearing United States Navy markings floated away from the ship and was picked up by Israeli Navy torpedo boat T 203. At the same time Israeli Navy torpedo boat T 204 circled USS Liberty, and recognized her designation and hull number, GTR 5. Only at this time was the attack halted, and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, T 203 and T204 withdrew from the combat area.

At 1650 hours, local time, 1 hour 10 minutes after T 203 and T204 departed, Israeli Navy torpedo boats returned to the combat area, this time to offer assistance.

USS Liberty damage control parties managed to stabilize the ship, and patch her hull damage sufficiently to keep the ship from sinking. As Israeli Navy torpedo boats approached again, USS Liberty 50-caliber gunners, this time at General Quarters, held their fire. As Israeli Navy offers of assistance crackled over the radio, United States Navy Captain William McGonagle radioed the Israelis in no uncertain terms what they could do with their offers of assistance.

9 June 1967, USS Liberty, barely seaworthy, made for Malta, under her own power, escorted by United States Navy destroyers, USS Davis DD 937, USS Massey DD 778, and United States Navy light cruiser, USS Little Rock CL 92.

The official Israeli government investigation found no negligence by any IDF member associated with the attack.

United States Navy vessel USS Liberty AGTR 5 sustained 32 United States Navy officers and sailors killed, 2 United States Marine Corps marines killed, and 170 United States Navy sailors wounded.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 05:59 AM
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Manuel and Henry -

The Syrian situation is a much tougher nut to crack than was the Libyan situation.

In that conflict, the U.S. role was just a path-clearing mission, to allow NATO warplanes to impose a no-fly zone over Libya. The U.S. part of Operation Odyssey Dawn, was United States Navy Ohio-class ballistic missile submarine, USS Florida SSGN 728 firing 93 Tomahawk cruise missiles at Libyan air defense targets, 90 of which were combat effective.

Intervening in Syria, with their particularly robust air defense network, is going to be a costly undertaking in terms of downed aircraft, lost & POW pilots, money, and the time it would take to achieve even limited objectives.

There are no good options in Syria, which is probably why the United Nations has not already intervened. When it's easy (Libya) the World intervenes relatively quickly -- when it's very difficult, not so quickly.......

And so the question is, as some have asked, should the United States intervene unilaterally to stop the violence against Syrian civilians? The answer is: not without a United Nations mandate.

The World is not the Wild West. The United States cannot simply go around and impose its will upon other nations. The United States is not the World’s police force.

Just because we can doesn’t mean we should…….

You know, I grew up the son of gun captain, left gun, turret 3, United States Navy heavy cruiser, USS Chicago CA 29. Dad believed that the World’s problems could be solved with large-caliber rifle fire. If Dad were in charge, he would park a division of large-caliber combat vessels off the West-Coast of Syria, and obliterate government positions with large-caliber rifle fire.

And believe me, when Dad got done with them, there wouldn’t be anything left……..

And then what?

Who is to be the government? Who is going to organize elections? Are they the "good" guys? Or are they the "bad" guys? Who really knows?

More often than not, it’s better to let people sort their affairs out for themselves. Intervening usually makes matters worse.

And so, Syria……..

The World will act at some point. The United States will be part of that effort.

Until then, we’ll have to be patient………
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Old August 26th, 2012, 09:25 AM
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Dean, for us to intervene in Syria, it would mean that we go and kill Syrians to save Syria.

Why don't we just use our money to build a stronger military and keep them based in the US.

Then if we are threatened here at home we can just go and blast the source.
I don't believe in the policy of re-building places such as Iraq. Go to war only when you have to and leave after let the other side do the rebuilding.

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Old August 26th, 2012, 10:24 AM
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Manuel,

What you say sounds good, but it doesn't work that way. We as a people, have always tried to lend a hand to those in need. We are not like other counties, who have their hand out.

I know that Iraq will always be a dirty word for those who want without working for it, but let me give all of you something to think about.

This year, Iraq sent young people to the UK to join others for 2 weeks to show how good they were, and how much they worked to get there.

They arrived home without tons of medals, but with pride.

The last time they arrived home to torture, and death, because they didn't shine. They still have troubles, but at least now, they have a chance. Give them that and be proud with them.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 10:26 AM
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Default I beg to differ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Dean View Post
Manuel and Henry -

The Syrian situation is a much tougher nut to crack than was the Libyan situation.

In that conflict, the U.S. role was just a path-clearing mission, to allow NATO warplanes to impose a no-fly zone over Libya. The U.S. part of Operation Odyssey Dawn, was United States Navy Ohio-class ballistic missile submarine, USS Florida SSGN 728 firing 93 Tomahawk cruise missiles at Libyan air defense targets, 90 of which were combat effective.

Intervening in Syria, with their particularly robust air defense network, is going to be a costly undertaking in terms of downed aircraft, lost & POW pilots, money, and the time it would take to achieve even limited objectives.

There are no good options in Syria, which is probably why the United Nations has not already intervened. When it's easy (Libya) the World intervenes relatively quickly -- when it's very difficult, not so quickly.......

And so the question is, as some have asked, should the United States intervene unilaterally to stop the violence against Syrian civilians? The answer is: not without a United Nations mandate.

The World is not the Wild West. The United States cannot simply go around and impose its will upon other nations. The United States is not the World’s police force.

Just because we can doesn’t mean we should…….

You know, I grew up the son of gun captain, left gun, turret 3, United States Navy heavy cruiser, USS Chicago CA 29. Dad believed that the World’s problems could be solved with large-caliber rifle fire. If Dad were in charge, he would park a division of large-caliber combat vessels off the West-Coast of Syria, and obliterate government positions with large-caliber rifle fire.

And believe me, when Dad got done with them, there wouldn’t be anything left……..

And then what?

Who is to be the government? Who is going to organize elections? Are they the "good" guys? Or are they the "bad" guys? Who really knows?

More often than not, it’s better to let people sort their affairs out for themselves. Intervening usually makes matters worse.

And so, Syria……..

The World will act at some point. The United States will be part of that effort.

Until then, we’ll have to be patient………
In NY 3 bases that I am aware of have been closed over the past few years .
I'm sure that bases in other states have closed as well .
The trillions of dollars spent for an immoral war in Iraq and Afghanistan could have been used to keep US bases open and to eradicate poverty in the US .
There is no need for the US to have bases anywhere other than the United States .
Last week a 21 year old soldier from NY was killed by an Afghani police officer that he had been training .This is not an isolated instance .
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Old August 26th, 2012, 03:19 PM
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People have been dying in Africa for many years and we never got involved.
Actually George Bush (W) spent a LOT of money helping Africa deal with its AIDs and famine crises.

Bush Has Quietly Tripled Aid to Africa (from the Washington Post 1996)

Quote:
President Bush's legacy is sure to be defined military power ... but there is another, much softer and less-noticed effort by his administration in foreign affairs: a dramatic increase in U.S. aid to Africa.

The president has tripled direct humanitarian and development aid to the world's most impoverished continent since taking office and recently vowed to double that increased amount by 2010 -- to nearly $9 billion.
But I have to say I also think the reasons we used to start the Iraqi War were very weak. There were no chemical weapons or WMDs found. Some people claim they have proof they were moved to Syria before the war started but if they were I think we would have found them. I am with the left on this issue and Afghanistan. I think Obama should get us out.

But despite the note from Mean Dean about Israel attacking a US airship in 1967 - umm, I don't know anything about that and you don't say if it was intentional. But in any case, we also helped rebuild Japan and Germany after they declared war on us and killed millions of our soldiers, so, .... ?

Israel is still our best ally and peacekeeper in the Middle East. I fully do not understand why Obama needs to insult and shame them all the time.

I even understand why some radical rights call him a Muslim, it is not that they think he is a practicing one but they do see the influence of his father (he wrote a book about that for Pete's sake) and his stepfather. He was partly raised in an Islamic nation from Oct 1967 to summer 1971 - almost four years as a child. It is pretty hard not to have some formative influence from all those factors.

But moreso they see him forcing Israel into a position where they have to make peace with the Palestinians or face a deadly situation. It is almost as if he is intentionally allowing the Middle East to get stronger even though he knows that will lead to Israel having to cede part of Jerusalem to the Palestinians. I have been to Jerusalem - you have no idea how powerful an image it is to see the Jewish worshipping at the Wailing Wall which now supports a Moslem Mosque on top of their most holy site in the world.

Israel could easily tear down that Mosque - just as the Muslims have destroyed outside religious symbols in their own nations, yet Israel respects Islam enough to tolerate that.

It is amazing and the only way to explain the power of that image is to imagine the Chinese tearing down the Vatican to erect a statue of Bhudda. That is what the Israelis live with on a daily basis. They have ONE WALL left from the Temple of David to worship, even though that Mosque is entirely in Israeli territory.



So - the question is why is he forcing Israel into a corner like that? And will the Arab world ever really accept Israel no matter what happens? It is like Obama thinks he knows what is best for Israel even though the Israelis obviously don't agree. Seems equally as arrogant to me as Bush was in invading Iraq.

And don't we need Israel in our corner in the Middle east? What if we alienat and ignore them to the point where Israel no longer exists Then what we do?

Once again Dean says...

Quote:
The World is not the Wild West. The United States cannot simply go around and impose its will upon other nations. The United States is not the World’s police force.
Isn't that why we need a strong Israel?
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Old August 26th, 2012, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Lakers Fan View Post
In NY 3 bases that I am aware of have been closed over the past few years .
I'm sure that bases in other states have closed as well .
The trillions of dollars spent for an immoral war in Iraq and Afghanistan could have been used to keep US bases open and to eradicate poverty in the US .
There is no need for the US to have bases anywhere other than the United States .
Last week a 21 year old soldier from NY was killed by an Afghani police officer that he had been training .This is not an isolated instance .

Why would you need military bases open in the states, if the troops have nothing to do? It seems like a waste of money to me.

The US military have nothing to do with poverty, unless you no longer provide a job for them, and then they are the poverty.

I guess I don't understand what you mean. If you would explain, it would be appreciated.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
Why would you need military bases open in the states, if the troops have nothing to do? It seems like a waste of money to me.

The US military have nothing to do with poverty, unless you no longer provide a job for them, and then they are the poverty.

I guess I don't understand what you mean. If you would explain, it would be appreciated.
I am saying that the money spent to send our youth to Iraq,Afghanistan ,etc could have been used to eradicate poverty .

I would like you to read about the 21 year old Marine killed last week by the Afghani policeman he was training . Read what his father says about his son dying for nothing . He said the only good thing that can come from his son's death is if ALL american troops are sent home now .
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Old August 26th, 2012, 08:03 PM
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Okay, now I understand the part about poverty. Thanks.

AS for understanding what this parent feels. I have attended so many services, I had to get a new dress. I want them out to!!!
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Old August 26th, 2012, 08:41 PM
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Re the US bases :

We need a military force but we need them on US soil .
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Old August 26th, 2012, 08:59 PM
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They are to fight who on US soil?
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Old August 26th, 2012, 09:36 PM
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They are to fight nonody on US soil unless attacked .We could employ our militia to oversee the Mexican border .

I believe as I have stated numerous times that we need a standing US militia .
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Old August 26th, 2012, 09:39 PM
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I just read that you would love to live in Israel. Do you realize that the troops are stationed in the middle east to protect Israel?
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Old August 27th, 2012, 09:43 AM
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I just read that you would love to live in Israel. Do you realize that the troops are stationed in the middle east to protect Israel?

I want the US to stay out of the affairs of Israel .
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Old August 27th, 2012, 10:04 AM
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We are allied with Israel mainly for strategic reasons with some religious overtones. As with many of our strategic partners this sometimes puts us in a bad position.

The reason MANY of our presidents have put pressure on both sides is that instability in that region is a threat to our security. Both sides have shown that they have been unable, by themselves, to come to an agreement.

For a little prespectivbe on all of this here is a good read:

Arab Peace Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Israel is not necessarily the good guys here, nor are the Palestinians.
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