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  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 28th, 2013, 02:13 PM
AR AR is offline
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Default Death Penalty on the Decline

The numbers for 2012 indicate that only nine states executed anyone in 2012, as follows:

Texas 15
Oklahoma 6
Mississippi 6
Arizona 6
Florida 3
Ohio 3
South Dakota 2
Delaware 1
Idaho 1

Most states have now either banned the practice or decided not to employ it. They have come to the conclusion that it is applied in a racially biased way, not a deterrent, far too costly, and (for some people) immoral. And, of course, with ever more sophisticated DNA testing it is clear that we have regularly executed innocent people.

The irony of the list of course, is that the states that still use capital punishment tend to be the red states that pound their chests hardest in other contexts about the sanctity of life. Over the weekend on one of the gab shows a woman representing one of the groups that want to overturn Roe v. Wade was asked if she's also against the death penalty. She sputtered a non-answer, looked pretty bad doing it.

Just for fun, I compared the states on the list above with the amount each state spends on education per pupil. Only two of those states, Delaware and Oklahoma, rank in the top 50% of states that spend the most on education. Arizona is 48th, Florida is 50th.

My alma mater, Northwestern University, has a pretty good law school. But it was not the law students, but the kids at the journalism school who took on the project of convincing the Illinois state government that the death penalty was being applied outrageously inconsistently and unfairly. They made their case beautifully, and there hasn't been an execution in Illinois since. I've never been prouder of the power of the pen, and of the students at NU.

I hope to see the day when the remaining kill states join the rest of the nation. Meanwhile, Texas is due to kill a woman tomorrow.

(Truth in advertising: my own state of Virginia, one of the most notorious kill states, managed to get through 2012 without an execution. But it proudly became the first to execute in 2013.)
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Old January 28th, 2013, 06:30 PM
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I am personally against the death penalty .However ,imho we should not be using tax dollars to house "people" like Charles Manson .I favor life at hard labor.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 01:21 AM
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So we the tax payer should support someone in prison who has multiple life sentences and never a hope of being released? There are open and shut cases where there are many witnesses of the murderer perpetrating the act, why should these people be allowed to live? I don't think it is right to sentence someone to death on DNA evidence alone.

As to the difference between Abortion and the death penalty....A baby in the womb has never hurt or injured anyone....a person who would be up for the death penalty definitely has!
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Old January 29th, 2013, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Truck Cruiser View Post
So we the tax payer should support someone in prison who has multiple life sentences and never a hope of being released?
Every study and analysis proves that supporting someone in prison for life costs less than the process involved in executing him. Funny thing, people who are given multiple life sentences never actually serve multiple life sentences. They only serve one.

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There are open and shut cases where there are many witnesses of the murderer perpetrating the act, why should these people be allowed to live?
Because a large and growing portion of society believes it is immoral to kill them.

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I don't think it is right to sentence someone to death on DNA evidence alone.
I agree. But it is certainly right to exonerate him on DNA evidence alone, because it immediately creates reasonable doubt. It's that pesky old "presumption of innocence" thing again. Trouble is, exonerating somebody after we've killed him is annoying for us, and generally met with indifference by the deceased prisoner.

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As to the difference between Abortion and the death penalty....A baby in the womb has never hurt or injured anyone....a person who would be up for the death penalty definitely has!
Except, of course, when he definitely hasn't. We regularly kill innocent people.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 12:58 PM
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AR said "Because a large and growing portion of society believes it is immoral to kill them."

Is this the same large and growing portion of society that believes abortion for any reason is okay? If so there are alot of hypocrites out there!

Let's take this a step further...Assisted suicide for a terminally ill person. I believe that this person, being a adult and of sound mind should have a right to make this decision, since they are gonna die anyway, and not have to suffer with pain anymore.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 01:19 PM
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I am personally against the death penalty .However ,imho we should not be using tax dollars to house "people" like Charles Manson .I favor life at hard labor.
A reasonable solution, on a board filled with irrationality.
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Old January 29th, 2013, 08:24 PM
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AR said "Because a large and growing portion of society believes it is immoral to kill them."

Is this the same large and growing portion of society that believes abortion for any reason is okay? If so there are alot of hypocrites out there!
It's only hypocrisy for people who share your view of when life begins. A great many people do not.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 10:26 AM
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I was pro death penalty until about 4 years ago, now I am undecided.

I enjoyed your part about Ill. and it's stand on the dp. Five hundred were executed in the windy city last year, and they didn't have a trial.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 12:20 PM
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There was a time in my life when I was Pro- Death Penalty but too many people have been proven to be innocent of their supposed crime .

To those who believe that life at hard labor is irrational do you believe that Charles Manson should be housed for life at taxpayers money ? He is allowed to use a computer and other luxuries .This to me is a travesty.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 02:39 PM
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Wouldn't it be cheaper and more just if Manson had been executed?
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:08 PM
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Wouldn't it be cheaper and more just if Manson had been executed?
I know how much you want to believe this Paul, but why not just hop online and do a little research?

It may be true that in a particular case of an individual who commits a crime while quite young and happens to live a particularly long life behind bars, execution might cost less. But over the full spectrum of death row people, and based on average life expectancy, the evidence is overwhelming and really undisputed that execution costs more. One way to begin to understand this is to know that people who are killed are imprisoned on death row for an average of 17 years first. That's a fair distance toward a natural death for many of them. Other expenses for the condemned skyrocket, such as solitary confinement, the cost of endless legal proceedings (almost always with taxpayer funded lawyers), plus the cost of keeping the death procedures functioning, up to and including a Supreme Court review of every case.

As I say, Paul, there's really overwhelming evidence about this that's easily available.

Henry, I have no particular problem with prisoners not having a lot of perks. And if hard labor can be useful instead of makework, I have no particular problem with that either, as long as the prisoner is physically capable of doing it. But of course it's obvious that hard labor or not, prisoners have to be housed and fed, and that will still cost money.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 04:31 PM
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If we give Manson a sledgehammer, he will probably enjoy breaking things other than rocks... He deserves to be in a locked room. With NO computer. Sunlight should be his "perk".
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Old February 1st, 2013, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
I was pro death penalty until about 4 years ago, now I am undecided.

I enjoyed your part about Ill. and it's stand on the dp. Five hundred were executed in the windy city last year, and they didn't have a trial.
I am in the same place as Luanne on this.

I have gone back and forth on this issue. I am open to listening to both sides.
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Old February 3rd, 2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
The numbers for 2012 indicate that only nine states executed anyone in 2012, as follows:

Texas 15
Oklahoma 6
Mississippi 6
Arizona 6
Florida 3
Ohio 3
South Dakota 2
Delaware 1
Idaho 1

Most states have now either banned the practice or decided not to employ it. They have come to the conclusion that it is applied in a racially biased way, not a deterrent, far too costly, and (for some people) immoral. And, of course, with ever more sophisticated DNA testing it is clear that we have regularly executed innocent people.

The irony of the list of course, is that the states that still use capital punishment tend to be the red states that pound their chests hardest in other contexts about the sanctity of life. Over the weekend on one of the gab shows a woman representing one of the groups that want to overturn Roe v. Wade was asked if she's also against the death penalty. She sputtered a non-answer, looked pretty bad doing it.

Just for fun, I compared the states on the list above with the amount each state spends on education per pupil. Only two of those states, Delaware and Oklahoma, rank in the top 50% of states that spend the most on education. Arizona is 48th, Florida is 50th.

My alma mater, Northwestern University, has a pretty good law school. But it was not the law students, but the kids at the journalism school who took on the project of convincing the Illinois state government that the death penalty was being applied outrageously inconsistently and unfairly. They made their case beautifully, and there hasn't been an execution in Illinois since. I've never been prouder of the power of the pen, and of the students at NU.

I hope to see the day when the remaining kill states join the rest of the nation. Meanwhile, Texas is due to kill a woman tomorrow.

(Truth in advertising: my own state of Virginia, one of the most notorious kill states, managed to get through 2012 without an execution. But it proudly became the first to execute in 2013.)
Will Arizona increase it's number with the trial currently in progress?
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