Go Back   CruiseMates Cruise Community and Forums > People > Open Debate
Register Forgot Password?

Open Debate The only forum to discuss politics and religion. Please keep it civil.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2013, 01:58 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,482
Default Where's my government money?!!

It's no surprise that less than a day after the fertilizer disaster in Texas, Rick "Secessionist" Perry was asking President Obama for federal money. This is the same Rick Perry who managed to balance the Texas budget with the stimulus money he said he hated so much--then bragged about having a balanced budget.

We would expect nothing less from a hypocrite like Perry.

But another Texan has now gone the governor one better.

The fertilizer plant is in a district represented in the House by Republican Bill Flores, who is echoing the governor in demanding federal disaster relief and the cash that goes with it. This is amusing because Mr. Flores was one of the 67 members of the House who voted against disaster relief for the victims of Hurricane Sandy.

Does it get any more cynical?

Does it get any more pathetic?

The Republicans who spend most of their days screaming for smaller government change their tune instantly when, as Lyndon Johnson used to say, "It's their own ox gettin' gored."

Does that $175,000 a year let them sleep well at night? Do they even know how deep in the slime they are?
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2013, 02:46 PM
Paul Motter's Avatar
Administrator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: in my office!
Posts: 10,913
Send a message via AIM to Paul Motter
Default

I'm curious are these "facts" you researched and verified - or is this just something you heard on MSNBC?

I thinks its pretty laughable when the liberals who suck off the government constantly get outraged when a conservative does it.

Hey - if the government is handing out money, then everyone has equal rights to it. Not just the people who voted for Obama.

It is possible for a senator to vote against any bill because (perhaps) its the third bill for Hurricane Sandy (not the first), or because someone stuck in an earmark the senator disagrees with.

Hey - I could easily be in here making a big deal out of Obama being one of the most ardent supporters of late-term abortions in the Senate, and saying "see where that went? the killing of innocent babies."

But senators vote for certain bills for different reasons in this country, and saying a senator "voted for or against" anything is a specious argument without the full details.

By your rationale, the democrats have only themselves to blame for the failure of the gun bill, since some repubs (including my McCain) voted for it.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2013, 03:21 PM
Dave Beers's Avatar
Moderator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,750
Default

Rick Perry also has a duty to use every tool at his disposal to aid the citizens of West, Texas, and that includes requesting federal disaster relief. He would be derelict in his duties if he thought 'well, I can't ask for that because I said I believe in smaller federal government'. Requesting federal disaster aid is an administrative action and not a political one.

It is also worth noting that the people in West, Texas, likely did not all vote for Perry or Romney, and I imagine at least some voted for Obama. Those people also pay federal taxes and have every right to expect some assistance if needed.

To politicize something like this explosion is, as we say in the south, 'sorry'.
__________________
Dave
Forum Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2013, 03:26 PM
zydecocruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,965
Default

Just sounds like more hypocrisy to me.

Does he have a position on the federal debt? Has he tried asking BP?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2013, 04:10 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
I'm curious are these "facts" you researched and verified - or is this just something you heard on MSNBC?
Nice try Paul. But since you're so curious, they are facts (no quotation marks) that I researched and verified. The 67 Republican House members who voted against the Hurricane Sandy relief bill are:

Amash, Barr, Benishek, Bentivolio, Blackburn, Bridenstine, Brooks (AL), Broun (GA), Chabot, Collins (GA), Conaway, Cotton, Daines, DeSantis, DesJarlais, Duffy, Duncan (SC), Duncan (TN), Fincher, Fleming, Flores, Foxx, Franks (AZ), Gohmert, Goodlatte, Gozar, Gowdy, Graves (GA), Graves (MO), Harris, Holding, Hudson, Huelskamp, Hultgren, Jenkins, Jordan, Lamborn, Marchant, Massie, McClintock, Meadows, Mullin, Mulvaney, Neugebauer, Palazzo, Pearce, Perry, Petri, Pompeo, Price (GA), Roe (TN), Rokita, Rothfus, Royce, Ryan (WI), Salmon, Schweikert, Sensenbrenner, Stutzman, Thornberry, Weber (TX), Wenstrup, Williams, Wilson (SC), Woodall, Yoder, Yoho.

This information, so far as I know, is not available from MSNBC, but whether it is or not I got it from the original and official House (not Senate) roll call data. I'm really sick of your attempts to attribute any information you don't like to a source you don't like. You accuse others of not sourcing their data, then you go on to spew a bunch of "what ifs." Unbecoming. In any event, I hope the list above satisfies your "curiosity."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
Hey - if the government is handing out money, then everyone has equal rights to it.
My point exactly. And if Flores had voted for Sandy relief I wouldn't have posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
It is possible for a senator to vote against any bill because (perhaps) its the third bill for Hurricane Sandy (not the first), or because someone stuck in an earmark the senator disagrees with.
Possible, of course, but simply not the case here. And we're talking about Representatives here, not Senators. Apparently you're the one who hasn't done any research.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
But senators vote for certain bills for different reasons in this country, and saying a senator "voted for or against" anything is a specious argument without the full details.
That's exactly why I looked up the details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
By your rationale, the democrats have only themselves to blame for the failure of the gun bill, since some repubs (including my McCain) voted for it.
I'm sure there's some logic in that statement somewhere, but I sure can't figure out what it is.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2013, 04:15 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Beers View Post
Rick Perry also has a duty to use every tool at his disposal to aid the citizens of West, Texas, and that includes requesting federal disaster relief. He would be derelict in his duties if he thought 'well, I can't ask for that because I said I believe in smaller federal government'. Requesting federal disaster aid is an administrative action and not a political one.

It is also worth noting that the people in West, Texas, likely did not all vote for Perry or Romney, and I imagine at least some voted for Obama. Those people also pay federal taxes and have every right to expect some assistance if needed.

To politicize something like this explosion is, as we say in the south, 'sorry'.
I'm simply arguing against hypocrisy, which there's plenty of in government and on these boards.

If you want the loot for yourself you have a moral obligation to be even-handed with regard to others. In other words, Dave, it's not about politics; it's all about the Golden Rule. As we say up here in the uninformed mid-Atlantic, does that bring it home?
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw

Last edited by AR; April 20th, 2013 at 04:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old April 21st, 2013, 03:49 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,518
Send a message via Yahoo to Luanne Russo
Default

Why should the good people of West have to suffer, because of any man or woman in office? Is that the way it works these days? You either vote my way, or you do without. What kind of gov. is that? Surely it has a name.

I realize that nasty is the name of the game these days, and attacking others is popular, but does anyone ever look at what they are saying?

West is a hard working community. They pay their taxes to the gov. and deserve to receive help, when they need it.

Gov. Perry is our gov. not yours. He was put into office to rep. us, not you.

If someone wants to break down the relief bill for Sandy, they will see it was full of pork, and would have not helped those in need. The final bill helped those people that had lost so much.
__________________
Ecstasy 2005
Conquest 2005
Elation 2005
Conquest 2006
Conquest 2007
Ecstasy 2008
Valor B2B 2008

Conquest Virtual Cruise Topic Link
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old April 21st, 2013, 04:06 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,921
Default

I get my government money twice a month. I get my payment from the VA on the 1st. of the month and my SS payment on the 3rd. Wednesday of the month.

TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence 12/29/13


Booked Vision of the Seas . 2/14/2015

Booked Allure of the Seas... 2/21/16 *Last Gang Cruise*
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old April 21st, 2013, 06:33 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
Why should the good people of West have to suffer, because of any man or woman in office? Is that the way it works these days? You either vote my way, or you do without. What kind of gov. is that? Surely it has a name.

I realize that nasty is the name of the game these days, and attacking others is popular, but does anyone ever look at what they are saying?

West is a hard working community. They pay their taxes to the gov. and deserve to receive help, when they need it.

Gov. Perry is our gov. not yours. He was put into office to rep. us, not you.

If someone wants to break down the relief bill for Sandy, they will see it was full of pork, and would have not helped those in need. The final bill helped those people that had lost so much.
Been awhile, Luanne, but I see you're still misrepresenting what anybody says who you don't agree with. I'm not going to argue with you. You're in your groove, and that's just the way it is.

I would simply point out for all that I am in favor of disaster relief for West. I have said so now in three different posts in this string. I am also in favor of disaster relief for New York and New Jersey, as is Republican Governor Christie, who I realize isn't considered by most of you to be a "real" Republican.

And it amuses me no end (in a sick sort of way) that the Republicans who base their campaigns heavily on being against "redistribution of wealth" come predominantly from "taker states," that is, from states that get back far more from the federal government every year than they pay in taxes. Texas is generally break-even on that score; most of its southern neighbors would never be able to survive without massive redistribution of federal wealth. In other words, they rob the federal treasury blind, then complain about the tax-and-spend liberals. They might have a point except the money's being spent on them. New Jersey, on the other hand, is a notorious "giver" state. People love to make jokes about the state I grew up in, but it is and always has been very much a going concern, with good education, smart people, high productivity and a vibrant economy. As such the Garden State pays far more to the federal government than it gets in return.

But when Sandy devastated the state, the response of at least 67 Republican House members, mostly from the South, was. . ."tough." Or to quote Dave, "sorry." Go have a conversation about pork with the folks on the Jersey Shore who still aren't close to being able to make a living. Then report back to me how many Democratic legislators wind up voting against any measure aimed at West relief. That number will be somewhere between slim and zero.

If it walks like a duck it's a duck. Greed is greed; lies are lies; rationalization is almost always tissue-thin.

Oh, and I completely agree that Governor Perry is your governor, not ours. Every cloud has a silver lining and I'm so glad you're stuck with him. Although we have Governor Ultrasound here, who's at least as big a liability. But thanks to term limits we'll be rid of him in November. Working hard to put somebody in the State House who's sane. Not an easy task.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw

Last edited by AR; April 21st, 2013 at 06:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old April 21st, 2013, 07:02 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,518
Send a message via Yahoo to Luanne Russo
Default

Once again you group all people together. The people of the south were very much in favor of aid to the East Coast.

Did you not attack The Gov. of the great state of Texas?

How many posts have you started making fun of the south?

The reps said they were in favor, but they weren't in favorite of the loaded amount of stuff added to the bill.

The bill was finally pasted, so move on and complain about something else.
__________________
Ecstasy 2005
Conquest 2005
Elation 2005
Conquest 2006
Conquest 2007
Ecstasy 2008
Valor B2B 2008

Conquest Virtual Cruise Topic Link
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old April 21st, 2013, 08:53 PM
ship2shore's Avatar
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
Once again you group all people together.

How many posts have you started making fun of the south?
Very sloppy accusations.

I have never seen AR "making fun" of the South.
I have seen him making fun of "aspects" commonly attributable to the South, but that is FAR FAR from the same thing you accuse him of doing. Those very same "aspects" can also be witnessed in the North, FYI. People live in trailers in Maine, for Gods sake.

If you want to argue, please try to be coherent.
__________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
Norwegian Breakaway 12 Day Caribbean Jan. 18, 2015


So you thought YOU were having a bad day???
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old April 21st, 2013, 10:02 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,921
Default

I just want to say that there is not much love and kindness in these posts.

The posts about cruising are a lot more fun.

TM

__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence 12/29/13


Booked Vision of the Seas . 2/14/2015

Booked Allure of the Seas... 2/21/16 *Last Gang Cruise*
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old April 21st, 2013, 10:21 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 18,200
Default Once upon a time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
I just want to say that there is not much love and kindness in these posts.

The posts about cruising are a lot more fun.

TM
Once upon a time in a land far ,far away there existed a cruise board .People came from all over the kingdom to post about past cruises and aspirations for future cruises .
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old April 21st, 2013, 10:51 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,921
Default

Yes we did have a cruise board here.

Now we have the National Enquirer.


TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence 12/29/13


Booked Vision of the Seas . 2/14/2015

Booked Allure of the Seas... 2/21/16 *Last Gang Cruise*
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2013, 12:16 AM
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Kandahar, Afghanistan
Posts: 124
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
I'm simply arguing against hypocrisy, which there's plenty of in government and on these boards.

If you want the loot for yourself you have a moral obligation to be even-handed with regard to others. In other words, Dave, it's not about politics; it's all about the Golden Rule. As we say up here in the uninformed mid-Atlantic, does that bring it home?
So, what you are saying is that everyone in government is allowed to steal as much as they want and no one can complain about it.

That isn't a government. That's just anarchy supported by a bunch of self-anointed Robin Hoods who want political cover so they can continue to loot the treasury. Your complaint is self-serving. Having someone deny aid for Sandy (and not necessarily because of the aid for Sandy itself, but for the pork attached to it) you now choose to sneer at anyone else's trouble.

Instead of complaining about that, why don't you get behind the LINE ITEM VETO? I don't like Obama, but I'm in favor of him having it. Why? Because it would reduce the use of needed bills as a vehicle for pork. Instead of criticizing Flores, why aren't you calling out the greedy SOBs who attached pork to the bill? Isn't that a pretty cynical thing to do, make a profit for your district off someone elses suffering?

Here's the real deal. Until Democrats are willing to restrain their porkers and Republicans are willing to restrain theirs, the status quo, i.e. looting the public coffers under the guise of ading victoms of misfortune will continue.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2013, 12:26 AM
Kuki's Avatar
Moderator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Right here :)
Posts: 22,431
Send a message via AIM to Kuki
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers Fan View Post
Once upon a time in a land far ,far away there existed a cruise board .People came from all over the kingdom to post about past cruises and aspirations for future cruises .

Uh...did you notice you were in the Open Debate message board. You might want to take a look at the rest of the ACTUAL cruise message boards and make a contribution.
__________________
Kuki
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2013, 03:23 AM
Paul Motter's Avatar
Administrator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: in my office!
Posts: 10,913
Send a message via AIM to Paul Motter
Default

AR....

I honestly have better things to do than sit around trying to make a case for one party or the other. Or for any one politician.

As far as I am concerned - these topics bore me stiff, and I don't care what any one congressman or governor did, so you can try to draw me in, but it won't work.

Originally Posted by Paul Motter
Quote:
The democrats have only themselves to blame for the failure of the gun bill, since some repubs (including my McCain) voted for it..
Then posted by AR
Quote:
I'm sure there's some logic in that statement somewhere, but I sure can't figure out what it is
Yeah - the point is that Democrats have control of the Senate, so with that fact AND the fact that some republicans also voted in favor of the bill - then AS A PARTY the democrats only have themselves to blame for the failure of the gun bill in the senate.

I love you way you act as if I am the only one who has said this and that it makes no sense, when its on practically every editorial page in the country.

Here's another topic all over the place - Obama is already a lame duck Prez who failed on the gun bill because he couldn't (or didn't) rally his own party to get it done. Here is a piece form a small-time newspaper from a columnist I think I have heard of, (funny, I actually wrote communist they first time I typed that; Freudian slip, sorry) . - Maureen Dowd NY Times:

Maureen Dowd - NY Times....

No Bully in the Pulpit

...

President Obama has watched the blood-dimmed tide drowning the ceremony of innocence, as Yeats wrote, and he has learned how to emotionally connect with Americans in searing moments...

Unfortunately, he still has not learned how to govern.

How is it that the president won the argument on gun safety with the public and lost the vote in the Senate? It’s because he doesn’t know how to work the system. And it’s clear now that he doesn’t want to learn, or to even hire some clever people who can tell him how to do it or do it for him.

It’s unbelievable that with 90 percent of Americans on his side, he could get only 54 votes in the Senate. It was a glaring example of his weakness in using leverage to get what he wants. No one on Capitol Hill is scared of him.

Even House Republicans who had no intention of voting for the gun bill marveled privately that the president could not muster 60 votes in a Senate that his party controls.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2013, 04:42 AM
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Kandahar, Afghanistan
Posts: 124
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
Yeah - the point is that Democrats have control of the Senate, so with that fact AND the fact that some republicans also voted in favor of the bill - then AS A PARTY the democrats only have themselves to blame for the failure of the gun bill in the senate.

I love you way you act as if I am the only one who has said this and that it makes no sense, when its on practically every editorial page in the country.
The answer, of course, is that the bill was trumpeted as about registration, but loaded with riders and addendums from the extreme gun haters. Democratic Senator Mark Begich of Alaska said the Senate could have united behind measures with broad support, like strengthening the existing background check system with more data about would-be gun buyers who have been deemed mentally ill, rather than expanding the checks to sales not now covered. Mr. Begich also cited bolstering school safety, criminalizing gun trafficking and improving mental health programs. “That’s a lot,” he said. “Is it perfect? No. But it’s a lot.”

Those modest steps, however, were sacrificed because other Democrats did not want to see further-reaching provisions fail at the expense of a package that the gun rights lobby wanted, aides said. In other words, MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY.

This tells us what the real problem is ... it's extremism. We could manage something like what the Senator above posted, if we could ignore those who keep attaching extremist riders to otherwise relatively sensible legislation.

The Reps do it too. Over and over there have been proposals to raise the amount someone can leave their heirs without estate taxes. Republican's have blocked them, because they know that the higher the level is, the less chance they will have of getting them removed altogether.

And the Dem trick is always about entitlements. It's not about social security or disability, or veterans benefits. It's about able-bodied people who could work, but won't. But any time someone suggests cutting benefits to freeloaders, the Dems hold up disability and veterans benefits as a shield for the pork they don't want to lose.

They are shrill. They have no shame. The media loves them, because extremist hysteria sells papers. But they aren't the mainstream and even they know it. It's what makes them so strident. Noise is the only power they have.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2013, 08:57 AM
Trip's Avatar
Moderator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Boston
Posts: 19,905
Send a message via ICQ to Trip
Default

Manuel, LF, why even click open these threads, that annoy you? No need for either of you to get upset, just walk on by.
__________________


Trip, with her book & tea!
Chat Hostess & Board Moderator


Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2013, 09:02 AM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,482
Default

The Democrats do NOT have control of the Senate, and will not until and unless 51 votes means yes, not 60. Are the Democrats partly responsible for this sad state of affairs? Yes. But it's still true that under these warped rules, they don't have enough votes to carry either the Senate or the House when Republicans are united.

Unless you've had your head in the sand you know that, and you know that Republicans have been exploiting that to make the government as dysfunctional as possible. Because of that, they will never win another national election, but they will succeed at fostering dysfunction, resentment and hate.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2013, 10:04 AM
Dave Beers's Avatar
Moderator
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Alabama
Posts: 1,750
Default

And the democrats did the exact same thing when the Republicans had the majority in the Senate - they used the arcane rules to thwart Republican legislation and do whatever else they could to toss a monkey wrench into the works.
__________________
Dave
Forum Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old April 22nd, 2013, 03:26 PM
Paul B's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,834
Default

Thank God for the 60 vote rule and the Republican house, or Obama would have already made us into a European style socialist country. I guess that some of you who rant in here constantly would prefer that. Many of us still
believe in individual rights and opportunity and not in a government which provides food, shelter and health care from the cradle to the grave. THAT DOES REALLY SOUND NICE, BUT WHO WOULD PAY FOR IT. THE CHINESE MAY BE GETTING TIRED OF DOING IT.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2013, 07:05 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,921
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
Manuel, LF, why even click open these threads, that annoy you? No need for either of you to get upset, just walk on by.
I don't get upset. Besides I don't click here often. Once in a while I just check to see what ideas people are coming up with.

TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence 12/29/13


Booked Vision of the Seas . 2/14/2015

Booked Allure of the Seas... 2/21/16 *Last Gang Cruise*
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2013, 11:50 AM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
Thank God for the 60 vote rule and the Republican house,
The 60-vote rule is extra-Constitutional, made up by the Senate as a perversion of the filibuster rule, and everybody knows that. All it takes to fix it is the Senate's will to fix it, but both parties have been afraid to do it for fear it will give an advantage to the other guys.

But it must be done. Knee-jerk "so's your old man" comebacks like Dave's are counterproductive to reasonable discussion of this issue, but I guess that's what this board is all about. Both parties should unite and return to majority rule in the Senate, and let the chips fall where they may.

Opportunistic, selfish responses like Paul B's are not helpful, because clearly when the shoe is on the other foot he'll have an entirely different attitude about the filibuster rule. He's only in favor of it because it is working in support of his point of view at the moment.

The answer is to put an end to the cynical, counterproductive bastardization of Senate rules, and get back to business.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2013, 12:35 PM
Paul B's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,834
Default

I guess that I am selfish in that I wish the best for my country. I have always balanced my budget and saved as well, and paid my taxes last year at a higher rate than Obama.

Selfish is for those who only take but do not give and for those members of the senate in the almost 60 category who would waste even more of the taxpayers money given the opportunity.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2013, 01:17 AM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
I guess that I am selfish in that I wish the best for my country. I have always balanced my budget and saved as well, and paid my taxes last year at a higher rate than Obama.

Selfish is for those who only take but do not give and for those members of the senate in the almost 60 category who would waste even more of the taxpayers money given the opportunity.
That's ducky, but what's best for the country is in the eye of the beholder. We're in the same boat as you re personal budgeting, saving, paying taxes and the like, but have an entirely different view of many issues. Being a taxpayer and saving money doesn't automatically make you right, and when the pendulum swings and works against your views, you'll be the first to condemn the filibuster rule.

I'm different from you in that I condemn it no matter who is in power or who the current winners and losers are. Right is right, it is not situational.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2013, 07:49 AM
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Kandahar, Afghanistan
Posts: 124
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
The Democrats do NOT have control of the Senate, and will not until and unless 51 votes means yes, not 60. Are the Democrats partly responsible for this sad state of affairs? Yes. But it's still true that under these warped rules, they don't have enough votes to carry either the Senate or the House when Republicans are united.

Unless you've had your head in the sand you know that, and you know that Republicans have been exploiting that to make the government as dysfunctional as possible. Because of that, they will never win another national election, but they will succeed at fostering dysfunction, resentment and hate.
The extreme left sends radicals to propose legislation to limit my freedoms. So I vote for extreme conservative radicals to defend my freedoms. And yes, I know. Liberals probably say conservatives are keeping us from passing safety measures, so we have to send extreme liberals to fight for what we want. So just who is to blame? Everyone wants it their way, no one is willing to concede the other side might have a point, and we vote in favor of gridlock and disfunctionality.

Until each wing is willing to tell their radicals to take flying leap, this isn't going to change. I'd be glad for a national debate on guns, so we could decide once and for all time what we are going to allow and what we are not. But too many gun haters have said that they intend to keep proposing regulations and laws and chip away at gun rights until they succeed in their goal of a complete gun ban.

I'm not saying anyone else has to see it my way. But NO, you cannot shout down my voice because you are afraid. And yes, I know that's just one issue. But we're to blame for what we see in Congress. It's useless to complain that the "other" side is at fault in keeping you from having everything your way.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2013, 09:23 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,518
Send a message via Yahoo to Luanne Russo
Default

We are close enough to West, Texas, that we had the town hall meeting on our local station. The mayor was begging the people of West to take advange of the local support that had been received. Gift cards collected from the Texas Rangers baseball team. Mental support offered by many who have come to West, to help out.

Even bottled water was being offered, and not being picked up, because as someone said, "Someone else might need it more" You aren't going to see these folks on tv asking for their Obama money. They are hard working, and believe in helping themselves, and each other.
__________________
Ecstasy 2005
Conquest 2005
Elation 2005
Conquest 2006
Conquest 2007
Ecstasy 2008
Valor B2B 2008

Conquest Virtual Cruise Topic Link
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2013, 12:29 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
You aren't going to see these folks on tv asking for their Obama money. They are hard working, and believe in helping themselves, and each other.
Too funny. You assure us that the people don't want any "Obama money," yet the people's representative in Congress is begging for the President to turn on the cash spigot.

Seems to be a disconnect here.

Be sure of this: there will be money, lots of it, sent to the area. And the people will take it and the people will spend it.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2013, 12:52 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
I have always balanced my budget and saved as well, and paid my taxes last year at a higher rate than Obama.
This should win the award for the most ironically sad statement on this board in five years.

Americans have a reputation for having short attention spans and short memories, but some of us still have a vague recollection of what was going on six months back, when President Obama was fighting hard for higher taxes on the rich, saying exactly these words: "People like me, who have been very fortunate, can afford to pay a little more."

And then what happened? Anyone? Anyone?

Republicans preserved most tax breaks for the rich and for corporations, making it up on the backs of the middle class and poor. They did finally set higher rates for those individuals making more than $400,000 a year and families making more than $450,000. This means that the president has succeeded at raising his own taxes, beginning this year, which of course will be due in April of next year.

But Paul had to take a cheap shot and claim that he's taxed at a higher rate than the president. . .the president who's been trying to raise his own taxes for years.

All you can do is shake your head.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts on government Marsdude Open Debate 11 March 1st, 2013 06:16 PM
Our Government is keeping us safe!!! Marsdude Open Debate 5 January 10th, 2013 01:07 PM
Government shutdown??? jlauntz Carnival Cruise Lines 6 April 9th, 2011 05:55 AM
Our form of government ToddDH Chit - Chat for Cruisers 13 May 25th, 2010 01:24 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:20 PM.
design by: Themes by Design

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1