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  #1 (permalink)  
Old July 30th, 2013, 06:59 PM
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Default Russian helicopter: $8 million US price. Original Russian price $4 million.

US military is trying to buy Russian helicopters for $8 million each. The helicopters cost $4 million to build. The reason why US military is buying the helicopters is to replace Russian helicopters that were not maintained by the Afghan air force. Do you think that the US military ever heard about sequestering.

Check todays' Wall Street Journal.for full story and also the story about the Afghanistan college supported by US that has students demonstrating against the US.
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Old July 31st, 2013, 09:12 PM
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Default Price for Mi17 helicopters to US military 18 million not 8

The Mi17 helicopter for Afghan airforce is cheaper and easier to operate that's why US military is buying them to replace the Mi17s that have become unusable because of poor maintenance. The helicopters cost $4 million in 2008 the last buy of these helicopters cost 12.7 to 13.8 million and the current batch will cost $18 million each. The people who are selling these helicopters must be saying these Americans are really poor bargainers.
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Old August 1st, 2013, 03:44 PM
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Default I have some old Russian tanks I could let the US Army have cheap

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Originally Posted by gladiatrix View Post
The Mi17 helicopter for Afghan airforce is cheaper and easier to operate that's why US military is buying them to replace the Mi17s that have become unusable because of poor maintenance. The helicopters cost $4 million in 2008 the last buy of these helicopters cost 12.7 to 13.8 million and the current batch will cost $18 million each. The people who are selling these helicopters must be saying these Americans are really poor bargainers.
I somehow can believe that the US military top brass has an attitude that the American public will pay for anything at any price if they say it is for the security of the United States. You have to wonder who is getting all this money in the helicopter deal. Is it an arms dealer or is it the Russian government -the same government that gave Snowden amnesty. I would also suppose there will be kickbacks to the Afghan president. The Afghan president will probably be going to Russia for amnesty when 2014 rolls around.
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Old August 2nd, 2013, 11:09 AM
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How much would equivalent US helicopters cost factoring in training costs, spare parts, etc.

Not to mention letting potential and/or actual enemies have access to our technology (some of which has likely been outsourced to potential and/or actual enemies )
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Old August 3rd, 2013, 02:10 PM
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Default More Reasons why buying Russian helicopters is dumb and wasteful

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How much would equivalent US helicopters cost factoring in training costs, spare parts, etc.

Not to mention letting potential and/or actual enemies have access to our technology (some of which has likely been outsourced to potential and/or actual enemies )


"Another area which Afghans still rely on U.S. troops is air support, a crucial advantage when trying to pinpoint the location of enemies who can blend into the local populace mo*ments after a firefight.

The Obama administration an*nounced recently it will spend almost $600 million on Russian helicopters for the fledgling Afghan air force. The choice of Russian models was made because of Afghans' familiarity with the Soviet-era aircraft.

But concerns persist that the Afghans will not be able to maintain the aircraft in the long term. The reason the purchsae is needed is to replace Russian helicopters the Afghans could not maintain and now they are junk. It's like pouring good money after bad.

Afghani*stan's air force is nearly non-existent at the moment, Ahmed Majidyar, an Afghanistan expert with the American Enterprise Institute.

"When the Soviet forces left Af*ghanistan (more than 20 years ago), their air force was better trained and better equipped than it is right now," Majidyar says.
USA TODAY
FRIDAY, AUGUST 2,2013


The Mi-17 is a hulking whale of an aircraft that can carry a whole lot more than a BlackHawk

Afghans are incapable of sustaining their fleet.

“The Afghans lack the capacity — in both personnel numbers and expertise — to operate and maintain the existing and planned ... fleets,” the report says.

Here’s a breakdown of everything wrong with the program:

NATO and the Pentagon don’t have a specific plan for when the program will reach its full size.


The U.S. performs 50% of maintenance and 70% of critical maintenance and logistics management for the Special Mission Wing and does not currently have any plan to transfer that responsibility to the Afghans.


The Special Mission Wing had less than 25% of its needed strength at the time of the audit and showed little prospects for growth.


Only seven pilots are qualified to fly with night vision goggles, which is necessary for most counter-terrorism missions.


It is difficult to find recruits who are literate and do not have associations with terrorist or insurgent activity.


Afghan Ministries of Defense and Interior do not have an agreement on the Special Mission Wing command and control structure, impacting growth and capacity.


The Defense Department plans to spend $109 million per year for oversight, maintenance, training, and logistics support of the aircraft program for the next several years.


No one expects the Afghans to be able to independently operate the Special Mission Wing for at least a decade.



Capabilities First, Politics Second



Opponents of the Department of Defense’s plans to purchase helicopters from the Russians argue that American-made helicopters, such as the UH-60 Blackhawk, would be a better alternative. Although the UH-60 has similar operational capabilities to the Mi-17, the Mi-17 is the best choice for the needs of the AAF, the Afghan government, and the U.S. taxpayer for a number of reasons:



Security Is Not Cheap



It is not just the cost of the Russian-made helicopters that has lawmakers concerned but also the overall cost of the ANSF. Afghanistan’s armed forces will need financial support from the international community for the foreseeable future. A major part of the post-2014 commitment to Afghanistan will be mentoring, training, and funding the ANSF. Maintaining an ANSF capable enough to take the security lead in Afghanistan will cost the international community approximately $4 billion to $5 billion per year, of which the U.S. has agreed to fund roughly half. To place this sum into perspective, the U.S. spent about this amount every 12 days on combat operations in Afghanistan in 2012.
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Old August 4th, 2013, 07:12 PM
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Default Why worry about the Russians getting technology, the Israelis will sell it to them.

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Originally Posted by zydecocruiser View Post
How much would equivalent US helicopters cost factoring in training costs, spare parts, etc.

Not to mention letting potential and/or actual enemies have access to our technology (some of which has likely been outsourced to potential and/or actual enemies )
India benefited from U.S.-developed technology pirated and sold by Israel when it purchased the Israeli Phalcon version of the AWACS plane. In 2010 Tel Aviv sold electronic-warfare systems for the F-16 fighter to Pakistan, nominally an enemy country with which Israel does not have diplomatic relations. More recently, the Pentagon has balked at giving Israel full maintenance access to the avionics on the F-35 air supremacy fighter planes that Israel will be receiving as part of its annual aid package because of concern that the electronics will be stolen.
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