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-   -   Tea Party vs. Park Service (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/open-debate/399154-tea-party-vs-park-service.html)

AR October 4th, 2013 06:34 PM

Tea Party vs. Park Service
 
I've been fortunate to travel much of the country over many decades. In all those years I've chatted with countless Park Service Rangers, people I consider guardians of a significant part of our nation's soul. I've never been disappointed in one; every one has taught me something, given me a special perspective, or simply given me good, practical information about the place I was visiting.

In short, our Park Rangers are a national treasure.

But not to Texas tea-party Congressman Randy Neugebauer, who represents a heavily gerrymandered district covering Abeline, and who typically wins re-election by five-to-one margins. In others words, he's guaranteed a place on Capitol Hill until he keels over.

After being part of the cabal that has intimidated Boehner into not putting a clean budget bill on the floor, he scooted down Capitol Hill (probably in a stretch limo) to the WWII Monument, which was closed. There, he scolded a young Park Ranger for not allowing vets entrance to the memorial. He cowed her into apologizing, but happily she refused say she was ashamed. Finally, her cause was taken up by a bystander, a furloughed government employee, who tartly informed the Congressman that the Ranger was only doing her job.

The man incites the shutdown, then grandstands at a national monument and dresses down a Park Ranger for, in essence, carrying out the orders that he issued. This is the definition of hubris, and this man should be put on the all-time hypocrite list. I'm sure his Texas constituents are busting with pride, and can't wait to re-elect him.

If you haven't seen the tape, here it is.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/10/03/randy_neugebauer_park_ranger_video_flag_wearing_go p_congressman_berates.html

Truck Cruiser October 5th, 2013 05:59 AM

How crazy is it to shut down a open air monument like that? Last I knew, the executive branch was in charge of these sort of things, not Congress.

I applaud Congress for once standing up for the will of the people in trying to stop Obamacare. Most people do not want it and as we have seen already, it is hurting a already damaged economy.

AR October 5th, 2013 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truck Cruiser (Post 1486274)
How crazy is it to shut down a open air monument like that? Last I knew, the executive branch was in charge of these sort of things, not Congress.

I applaud Congress for once standing up for the will of the people in trying to stop Obamacare. Most people do not want it and as we have seen already, it is hurting a already damaged economy.

Truckie, once again you miss the point. It doesn't matter what you think about what Congress did, even though you're dead wrong. The post is about one jackass Congressman who berated a young woman who was just doing what she was told to do, as a direct result of what HE did.

You do yourself no good by defending the indefensible, or by changing the subject.

Luanne Russo October 5th, 2013 10:01 AM

I saw the title of your post, and thought the Tea Party had done something. As it turns out, that wasn't the case.

Paul Motter October 5th, 2013 11:19 AM

Also - AR's original post is flawed. Boehner has said he won't allow a treasury default no matter what. All of that talk is FEAR-MONGERING by the democrats who are doing something no politicians, especially no President has ever done before in history - deliberately tried to sabotage the American economy to gain a political end.

Read this piece by NBC's Larry Kudlow:

Obama's Reckless Default Fear-Mongering


Never before has an American president threatened and risked the U.S. economy and financial markets the way Barack Obama has in recent days. For his own narrow political ends, Obama and his minions have actually accused the Republican party of deliberately provoking a Treasury debt default because they don't agree with the Obama position on the continuing budget resolution and the debt ceiling.

"As reckless as a government shutdown is ... an economic shutdown that results from default would be dramatically worse," Obama said on Thursday. Clearly targeting Republicans, he said a default would be "the height of irresponsibility."

Then, on the same day, Obama's Treasury Department released a brutal statement that said a default would prove catastrophic, causing credit markets to freeze and leading to "a financial crisis and recession that could echo the events of 2008 or worse."

So who exactly in the Republican ranks is calling for a Treasury debt default? Who? The GOP disagrees with Obama on the budget and health care, but no Republicans have ever said they favor defaulting on the nation's debt.

What's going on here?

I have a strong suspicion that Obama and his troops are trying to provoke a massive sell-off in stocks and bonds to further their political position. And a massive sell-off like that could conceivably become a self-fulfilling prophecy, driving the economy into recession. Indeed, it could drive the whole global economy back into recession, since U.S markets are the epicenter of the world's system.

This kind of political tactic is beneath the presidency. No president -- not Nixon, Carter, Reagan, the Bushes or Clinton -- has ever menaced and assaulted the financial world to achieve short-term political gains the way Obama has. This has never happened before.

And frankly, because of the extraordinary importance of our financial system, especially after the crisis of 2008, Obama's selfish tactics border on the unpatriotic. Presidents don't act that way. They are custodians of their office. They attempt to create a positive legacy for the future. And they don't try to pull down the whole system for their own gain.

This is negativism to a fault. The people in the White House and Treasury know better. But apparently they know no political bounds.

According to a Wall Street Journal story, one senior Obama official went so far as to say, "We are winning ... it doesn't really matter to us how long the shutdown lasts, because what matters is the end result."

Right now the hero of this sad episode is House Speaker John Boehner. He countered Obama by issuing a statement that he is determined to prevent a federal default. He then stated, "I don't believe we should default on our debt, it's not good for our country." Boehner even indicated he would rely on Democratic votes in the House to pass a debt-limit increase and avoid default.

The difference between Obama and Boehner on this and other subjects is that Mr. Obama lacks a sense of historical experience and doesn't recognize what a high-stakes game he is playing. Mr. Boehner, on the other hand, has the benefit of years of high-level experience, and he knows how dangerous loose lips can be in affecting the markets and economy.

Earlier this year, House Republican Tom McClintock and 106 co-sponsors introduced the Full Faith and Credit Act, which would protect the payment, principal, and interest on U.S. Treasury securities, including those held by Social Security funds, even in the event that the federal debt reaches the statutory limit. In other words, by law, not default. Two years ago Senator Pat Toomey introduced similar legislation. And more recently, House Financial Services chairman Jeb Hensarling renewed the campaign for that bill. But Obama and the Democrats have always opposed it. And how bizarre is it that Obama opposes the one piece of legislation that would make it impossible for him or anybody else to make Treasury-default accusations?

Down through the years, presidents have made policy mistakes that severely damaged the value of stocks and bonds. And roughly 100 million Americans now own stocks, while countless others own bonds. And in our interconnected world, foreign investors around the globe participate in these markets. Yet our current president would risk all these assets by making phony default charges and by virtually threatening a financial and economic catastrophe if he doesn't get his way on the shutdown and the debt ceiling.

Here's a little bit of good news: Stocks and bonds were virtually flat across the first four days of the shutdown.

They have so far ignored Obama's phony default charges. And they know that the U.S. will never -- never -- default on its Treasury obligations.

So once again I argue that markets are smarter than politicians. Let's hope I'm right.



Read more: Obama's Reckless Default Fear-Mongering | RealClearPolitics
Follow us: @RCP_Articles on Twitter

Paul Motter October 5th, 2013 11:28 AM

Luanne...

Haven't you noticed that "the tea Party" is a democrat party straw man - a pejorative name they use for extremely conservative Republicans. There is not really much of an organized Tea Party any more - when was last time you saw a Tea Party demonstration. When was the last time you head a right winger refer to themselves as a "tea party" faction or member?

It's just a name the Democrats have glommed onto and kept alive - like if we chose to refer to certain democrats as "Occupy Wall Streeters" - but we don't.

Which reminds me - speaking of national park services - the difference between the how Obama sees American citizens:

He shuts down the World War II memorial with police tape so taxpaying veteran citizens who travel hundreds of miles can't see it. But he was fine with Occupy Wall Street law breakers sleeping, urinating and fornicating in a small city park in downtown Manhattan that people use to use to eat their lunch.

Paul Motter October 5th, 2013 11:57 AM

Government closes the "Ocean"
 
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...se-of-Shutdown

The best part of this article is this:

Apparently, according to an anonymous Park Service ranger, “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

FEDS TRY TO CLOSE THE OCEAN BECAUSE OF SHUTDOWN

Just before the weekend, the National Park Service informed charter boat captains in Florida that the Florida Bay was "closed" due to the shutdown. Until government funding is restored, the fishing boats are prohibited from taking anglers into 1,100 square-miles of open ocean. Fishing is also prohibited at Biscayne National Park during the shutdown.

The Park Service will also have rangers on duty to police the ban. Of access to an ocean. The government will probably use more personnel and spend more resources to attempt to close the ocean, than it would in its normal course of business.

This is governing by temper-tantrum. It is on par with the government's ham-fisted attempts to close the DC WWII Memorial, an open-air public monument that is normally accessible 24 hours a day. By accessible I mean, you walk up to it. When you have finished reflecting, you then walk away from it.

At least that Memorial is an actual structure, with some kind of perimeter that can be fenced off. Florida Bay is the ocean. How, pray tell, do you "close" 1,100 square miles of ocean? Why would one even need to do so?

Apparently, according to an anonymous Park Service ranger, “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

Centuries ago, King Canute famously failed to command the ocean tide to stop. His display was actually a means to educate his subjects on the limits of royal power. Today, however, our President actually believes he has the power to control the oceans.

poppadock October 5th, 2013 12:23 PM

Paul...U sound like a true tea party man, Obama...Obama...Obama. Down with the President.

AR October 5th, 2013 01:12 PM

Paul--

Please draw a straight, simple line between my OP and all the right-wing gunk you threw against the wall, and explain in one sentence how the OP is "flawed," and why it was completely proper for this gasbag to browbeat the Park Ranger. Sometimes less is more.

You of all people shouldn't be hijacking threads.

I still get the giggles when I remember that once upon a time you claimed to be a "moderate."

Luanne Russo October 5th, 2013 02:55 PM

Paul,

I think the Tea Party learned a valuable lesson with the protests. Like the original Tea partiers, they have started to work as groups, and in the dark of night.

If it wasn't so wrong it would be funny, at the lefties, who cry like a little girl, when they hear the word Tea Party.

Obama tried to use the IRS to stop them, and that made them stronger. They might not be seen on the streets, but they are alive and well.

ship2shore October 6th, 2013 12:52 AM

Funny, Luanne... you make them sound like terrorists, kinda...rofl

Luanne Russo October 6th, 2013 09:13 AM

No ship not terrorists, but some sure call them so.

AR October 6th, 2013 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo (Post 1486312)
the lefties, who cry like a little girl.

You amaze me beyond words.

You are by your own description, and you will clearly continue to be, part of the group of Americans who doggedly support factions that are working against your personal best interests.

For example:

People who are in the lowest tax brackets (including the "zero" bracket) will march against tax increases which will not affect them, while the rich who will benefit greatly from avoiding tax increases thank you for your support and laugh all the way to the bank.

That's just one of many examples. I don't know any lefties who cry like little girls, but I do know a lot who rail against various forms of injustice and who are willing to put their money where their mouths are.

Those injustices include the rich paying far too little in taxes, the poor not having access to health care, and a whole lot more.

Meanwhile, neither you nor anyone else has specifically addressed the basic human decency of the Texas Congressman in the OP. Talk about changing the subject!!

AR October 6th, 2013 12:01 PM

Back on topic, I see in this morning's public prints that an ethics complaint has been filed against Mr. Neugebauer for his treatment of the Park Ranger.

Of course, the complaint will have no practical effect.

Filing an ethics complaint with Congress is like filing a murder complaint with the mob.

Luanne Russo October 6th, 2013 02:50 PM

Why in the world would any of us want to spend a minutes time talking about someone who misbehaved?, or did he?

Your title was Tea Party vs Park Ranger. There was no Tea Party. When your title is wrong, your message is mute.

BernieG October 6th, 2013 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo (Post 1486363)
Why in the world would any of us want to spend a minutes time talking about someone who misbehaved?, or did he?

Your title was Tea Party vs Park Ranger. There was no Tea Party. When your title is wrong, your message is mute.

Mute? wouldn't that be Moot?

Luanne Russo October 6th, 2013 04:44 PM

Thanks Bernie:)

AR October 6th, 2013 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo (Post 1486363)
Why in the world would any of us want to spend a minutes time talking about someone who misbehaved?, or did he?

Your title was Tea Party vs Park Ranger. There was no Tea Party. When your title is wrong, your message is mute.

The title is right. Randy Neugebauer is an official, avowed member of the Tea Party Caucus of the House of Representatives, a group chaired by the one and only Michele Bachmann. He's a card-carrying member. As such, his actions reflect on the tea party. See this link for a full roster of the caucus.

Tea Party Caucus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While I understand that you're against spending "a minute's time" on anything that might make your people look bad, I and a lot of others think that sometimes little pictures tend to illuminate big issues.

But then for you to seriously question whether or not he misbehaved is truly unbelievable, and does not reflect well on you. You're the only person I've heard on or off this board who has even hinted at coming to his defense over this.

It's also interesting to look at Neugebauer's Wiki page. I had a hunch he was the one who yelled "baby killer" at another Congressman on the floor of the House, an entirely out of order remark, and it turns out I was right.

But not to worry. As I said earlier, he's in an invincible district so he and his spew will be in Congress until he drops.

Luanne Russo October 6th, 2013 09:44 PM

What my people? Tea Partiers, I am not a member. Texans? I was sent here as part of the Army. I don't know what people you are talking about.

Your Title says Tea Party. I am not sure what the rules say about how many it takes to attack the whole group, but I'm pretty sure it is more than one.

Let's face it AR. I will not follow the Pied Piper. I believe that each person has the right to speak, and equally to question the Gov. But I do know if people don't start speaking up, they will one day wake up and realize that right is no longer there.

All these people speaking up are in the Obama's way. He would like nothing better than for Tea Partiers, and Fox news to be gone tomorrow. That is why the piper has instructed his minions to say and do anything to discredit them.

I was asked a question in an e-mail from someone who has read your attack threads in the past couple of months. WHY TEXAS? You have picked on the representatives, the Governor, and the people. I realize you started in what was it So Carolina? But all your energy lately has been about this great state and the equally great people. WHY?

Is it because the piper hopes to have Texas as a demo state, where all follow the man off the deep end? Not going to happen. These people are strong, and stand up for themselves.

You suggested a couple of weeks ago, that you didn't care to "debate" with me anymore, and I agree. I am tired of sticking up for Texas and the Tea Party. There are Texans on this web site, and I know of three Tea Partiers, so I will let them take up the sword.

I really do care for you AR, and encourage you to think about who you are defending. You should be okay as long as you do the biding, but once you try to tell the truth, they might be after you. Ask James Rosen if you don't believe me.

ship2shore October 7th, 2013 11:55 PM

You think Obamas taking away your rights????
Examine the previous Bush administration, and you will see "rights-erosion" EXPERTS hard at work for 8 long years.

AR October 17th, 2013 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo (Post 1486389)
What my people? Tea Partiers, I am not a member. Texans? Your Title says Tea Party. I am not sure what the rules say about how many it takes to attack the whole group, but I'm pretty sure it is more than one.

When a Democrat says something stupid (and they do that a lot), you and Paul and all the other righties are quick to point out the party affiliation. And when Ted Cruz says something stupid (which he does every five minutes), he's identified as a Republican, even though most Republicans see him as the vainglorious fool that he is. But he's still a Republican. So why is it improper to call Neugebauer a tea party member, when he openly proclaims that he is? You're not a tea party member yourself? Oh, right, you're an independent. I forgot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo (Post 1486389)
Let's face it AR. I will not follow the Pied Piper. I believe that each person has the right to speak, and equally to question the Gov. But I do know if people don't start speaking up, they will one day wake up and realize that right is no longer there.

It is my fervent hope that I will one day wake up and find that the right is no longer there. Oh, wait, that's not what you meant, is it? In any event, you're following your own pied piper, and he's leading you off the cliff (to slightly mix a fairy-tale metaphor).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo (Post 1486389)
All these people speaking up are in the Obama's way. He would like nothing better than for Tea Partiers, and Fox news to be gone tomorrow. That is why the piper has instructed his minions to say and do anything to discredit them.

He doesn't need to do that. They're doing a perfectly good job of it on their own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo (Post 1486389)
I was asked a question in an e-mail from someone who has read your attack threads in the past couple of months. WHY TEXAS? You have picked on the representatives, the Governor, and the people. I realize you started in what was it So Carolina? But all your energy lately has been about this great state and the equally great people. WHY?

My first reaction is to wonder why your e-mail friend doesn't ask directly. I reckon we're talking about one of the majority of people who read this board but don't have the courage to post.

That aside, why Texas? Where do I begin?

Well, let's start with the aforementioned Mr. Neugebauer and the Park Ranger. It takes a special kind of insensitivity to grandstand and berate someone in that way. He's disgraceful, but I haven't heard a word denouncing him from Texas. Stunningly, you personally hint that what he did wasn't all that bad. Many of us think otherwise.

Next on the hit parade comes Congressman Joe Barton (R-Tex). Here's my favorite proclamation from Joe: "Wind is a finite resource and harnessing it would slow the winds down which would cause the temperature to go up." He made this statement to support why he against wind as a clean source of power. It would be funny except that Joe is the author of the Energy Policy Act. He shouldn't be allowed outside unsupervised, much less elected to Congress.

Then there's good ol' Congressman Steve Stockman (R-Tex). Steve's campaign bumper sticker said this: "If Babies Had Guns They Wouldn't Be Aborted" No constituency should ever send to high office a man who would say that.

Ted Cruz? Well, he's made so many enemies that some of us dare to hope that perhaps he's "peaked," but we'll see. People as twisted as he is tend to survive in the political world far longer than they should. Interestingly, the largest paper in Texas, the Houston Chronicle, which had endorsed Ted Cruz when he ran, said this in an editorial yesterday: "When we endorsed Tex Cruz in last November's general election, we did so with many reservations and at least one specific recommendation--that he follow (Kay Bailey) Hutchinson's example in his conduct as a senator. Obviously, he has not done so. Cruz has been part of the problem." Amen.

I could do paragraphs on Cornyn and Perry, but I won't.

Then, last night, 18 senators voted to have the government default. In only three states of our Union did both senators vote for this reckless course. Was Texas one of them? You betcha. Congratulations.

By the way, you claim that default would be fine, and that the perils of not paying the bills are an invention of the left. That's not true, but let's assume for a minute that you're right. You were very bold to ask those here who live outside the US what they think of the AFA, and you didn't necessarily get the answers you hoped for. Why don't you ask the same folks what the rest of the world thinks of default brinksmanship? They look at Cruz and the rest of these Keystone Kops and think that our nation has absolutely lost its mind. Don't believe it? Ask them.

The right has plenty of science deniers, and now people like you are what I call debt deniers. The science deniers tend to change their tune when they need a revolutionary medical advance to make them well; debt deniers will change their tune when they see their 401s go down the dumper again due to a worldwide recession. Irresponsible, head-in-the-sand people.

So, here's the deal Luanne (and your anonymous correspondent). . .I've lived in Washington for more than four decades and have heard the "What's wrong with Washington?" chant for all of that time. Now it is at a crescendo. And the answer, obviously, is that what's wrong with Washington is the jackasses the rest of the country elects and sends here. And Texas sends far more than its fair share. We don't grow them. If you want to know what's wrong with Washington, look to yourselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo (Post 1486389)
Is it because the piper hopes to have Texas as a demo state, where all follow the man off the deep end? Not going to happen. These people are strong, and stand up for themselves.

Every Democratic politician hopes to persuade Republicans to their point of view, and vice versa. Nothing wrong with that. It's just politics, and perfectly normal. And while the white middle class and below in Texas will continue to be "strong" for the GOP and the tea party, everybody who's been paying attention knows that the demographics there are shifting dramatically. This is making Texas more purple by the day, and may eventually turn it blue. You're on the way to a majority minority state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo (Post 1486389)
You suggested a couple of weeks ago, that you didn't care to "debate" with me anymore, and I agree. I am tired of sticking up for Texas and the Tea Party. There are Texans on this web site, and I know of three Tea Partiers, so I will let them take up the sword.

You wrote this almost two weeks ago. The silence is deafening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo (Post 1486389)
I really do care for you AR, and encourage you to think about who you are defending. You should be okay as long as you do the biding, but once you try to tell the truth, they might be after you. Ask James Rosen if you don't believe me.

Paranoia is not part of my lifestyle, thanks.

Manuel October 17th, 2013 03:44 PM

Life goes on.

None of the people in Congress lost any pay while the government was shut down.

In January we get to do it all over again. The blame game will go on and no one in DC is going to do anything constructive.

So I suggest that we all enjoy life as best as we can and don't worry about the sky falling.

TM

AR October 17th, 2013 04:29 PM

Jeez, I forgot Louie
 
I can't believe that in my answer about Texas I left Congressman Louis Gohmert (R-Tex) off my list.

As most people know, the Congressman has lately been running around calling his fellow Republican John McCain "an Al Qaeda supporter." I'm not a fan of McCain, but he sure ain't that! Last night on NBC Brian Williams asked McCain what he thought about the charge. Here's the transcript of the answer:

"Sometimes comments like that are made out of malice, but if someone has no intelligence I don't view it as a malicious statement. You can't respond to that kind of thing."

Well put.

I missed a few other things about Texas too. . .

--One of the leading states in voter suppression, a.k.a. the cure for which there is no disease. Unless you consider minorities, the poor and the elderly a disease.

--One of the leading states in capital punishment of the guilty and the innocent.

--The leading state in gathering petition signatures for secession. Even though secession is technically an act of treason, I'd be willing to wink at that and simply say, "Don't let the door hit you in the butt."

By the way, I'm coming to Texas tomorrow for a few days. I won't say what part, because I know that most of you carry guns and "ain't afeerd to use 'em."

zydecocruiser October 18th, 2013 12:52 AM

Allow me to summarize - We only need one, and it isn't the Tea Party.

zydecocruiser October 18th, 2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truck Cruiser (Post 1486274)
How crazy is it to shut down a open air monument like that? Last I knew, the executive branch was in charge of these sort of things, not Congress.

I applaud Congress for once standing up for the will of the people in trying to stop Obamacare. Most people do not want it and as we have seen already, it is hurting a already damaged economy.

What will of the people? Not my will. Not the will of the majority who re-elected the President. Just the will of a few extremists - terrorists if you will.

AR October 22nd, 2013 12:25 AM

Update. . .

With the help of a fake beard and moustache I managed to get into Texas under cover of darkness, stay for 72 hours, and escape to New Mexico without incident.

Whew!


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