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  #31 (permalink)  
Old November 11th, 2013, 01:06 AM
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How many people to date have died because they could not obtain health insurance and care? At any price? Effective Jan 1, insurance companies can't play that game anymore. Most (all?) insurance policies had lifetime caps on how much they would pay - they can't play that game either. You won't run out of coverage.

Obamacare is not a screw up - it is hope for millions upon millions.

In Louisiana, maybe 100,000 people may have policies cancelled. But they will still be able to obtain insurance. But because the idiot governor won't expand medicaid, hundreds of thousands who should be covered, will go without insurance.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 09:54 AM
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Do you know why the coverage wasn't expanded? Was it because the burden, long term, would have hurt the people of La?

Smart Governors realize that you can't keep using a credit card, with no means to pay it off. The states who agreed, needed the money now. The ones who didn't, were looking to the future.

Citizens dependent on the Gov. are easily manipulated.

I am completely surprised at those who are so willing to give up their rights.

2014 should be interesting. Let's see how many will vote for a person who supported this lousy bill. Will they get reelected, or will people realize that they have been sold a lemon by their own Gov.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 10:01 AM
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Most of what the administration are calling "junk" policies are actually catastrophic-care policies. Those have for many years been popular among responsible younger people. A healthy, single 24-year-old pays very little for such coverage. Basically he is self-insuring for any checkups he wants, and against the chance of breaking his collarbone in a pickup ball game. BUT, if he develops cancer or gets a head injury from falling off his motorcycle, he's covered. Those people who were unfortunate enough to have to collect on their policies are those who are now getting cancellation notices, even though the costs of their conditions may not have gone away.

Z, I've seen such people profiled on all the major news channels; they most definitely do not exist merely in someone's imagination. Similarly, the many elderly and infertile who are being required to carry maternity coverage exist.

Obama did not "lie" in the same sense as many presidents who said one thing and then did something else. He said something KNOWING AT THE TIME that for the system to work it would have to require some people to pay for coverage they did not need, did not want, and would never use --- in order to cover the cost of expanding coverage to others. That such would have to be the case should have been obvious to everyone, and was obvious to many, but those who pointed it out were either ignored or reminded that the president had promised it wasn't so.
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Old November 11th, 2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Sistersolo View Post
Most of what the administration are calling "junk" policies are actually catastrophic-care policies. Those have for many years been popular among responsible younger people. A healthy, single 24-year-old pays very little for such coverage. Basically he is self-insuring for any checkups he wants, and against the chance of breaking his collarbone in a pickup ball game. BUT, if he develops cancer or gets a head injury from falling off his motorcycle, he's covered. Those people who were unfortunate enough to have to collect on their policies are those who are now getting cancellation notices, even though the costs of their conditions may not have gone away.

Z, I've seen such people profiled on all the major news channels; they most definitely do not exist merely in someone's imagination. Similarly, the many elderly and infertile who are being required to carry maternity coverage exist.

Obama did not "lie" in the same sense as many presidents who said one thing and then did something else. He said something KNOWING AT THE TIME that for the system to work it would have to require some people to pay for coverage they did not need, did not want, and would never use --- in order to cover the cost of expanding coverage to others. That such would have to be the case should have been obvious to everyone, and was obvious to many, but those who pointed it out were either ignored or reminded that the president had promised it wasn't so.
Good post.

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Old November 12th, 2013, 09:59 AM
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Read my lips. No President makes the law - Congress does. The President did not write the Obamacare law - basically a Republican plan - he would have written something different. However, he did accept the best that Congress could produce - the best of anything Congress can produce is pathetic.

But the so called catastrophic Renaissance is still available - just pick a policy with a high deductible - one equal to max out of pocket. One where you do pay out of pocket for doctor visits and lab work until the deductible is met. Like it or not, routine preventative care will still be covered. It is still far better and cheaper to discover problems early.

I consider elderly to be someone eligible for Medicare and so is not an issue. But it is the mature adult who is very much helped by Obamacare for a number of reasons including the elimination of pre-existing conditions. That the premium multiple that can be charged mature adults is capped at a lower number than before.

Some governors have tied the medicaid expansion to Obamacare and turn it down purely out of protest for Obamacare and for no other reason. They don't give a damn about the people of their state and the people will speak louder in future elections.

The GOP is still clueless and incapable of compromise or moderation. They continue to be their own worst enemy.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 01:24 PM
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Why isn't it called Congress care? Why did Obama call it his own? Why does he talk about his legacy? You simply can't claim something that works, and disavow when it goes wrong.

If what you say is true, then fine, it is up to all Americans to throw all those out of office who voted for this thing, then throw the bill out with them.

Governors didn't want this disaster on their record. They also read the bill that says the Feds would give the states money for the expansion, and then leave them to take care of it, on their own.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 02:24 PM
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And how is it "basically a Republican plan"? What Republicans have pushed for, for years, are tort reform and the ability to purchase insurance across state lines, neither of which are included in Obamacare.

While I probably should have said "mature" instead of "elderly" with respect to maternity coverage, saying that an Obamacare high-deductable policy is the same as catastrophic insurance is totally ignoring the fact of the huge premium difference between the two.

I have never questioned that a good point of Obamacare is coverage of pre-existing conditions. I do, however, believe that if that was actually the intent of the push for the ACA, that it could have been done better, cheaper, and with much less disruption.

When this bill was sold to a partisan Congress that had not even had a chance to read it, the cost was projected at $900 million dollars. Most of that was "paid for" by raiding Medicare, specifically payments to Medicare Advantage plan providers, causing large numbers of seniors to get insurance-cancellation notices two years ago, and a six- to ten-fold increase in their premiums to replace the Advantage plans with ordinary Medicare supplements. A year ago that cost estimate was "corrected" to $1.8 billion. The most recent projection I've heard is now $2.8 billion. What happens to everything else government spends money on?

As for states not going along with Medicaid expansion, please remember that a number of states, including ones like California which have huge Medicaid expenses, have been flirting with bankruptcy even without the expansion. So the feds say, don't worry, we'll pick up all of the cost the first year, and only slowly taper that aid off just a little bit. Question: why should anyone believe that? Especially as Obamacare expenses continue to ratchet up? The federal government has been supposed to pay 40% of special education costs all along, and has never provided anything even close to that despite its promises.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old November 12th, 2013, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
Why isn't it called Congress care? Why did Obama call it his own? Why does he talk about his legacy? You simply can't claim something that works, and disavow when it goes wrong.

If what you say is true, then fine, it is up to all Americans to throw all those out of office who voted for this thing, then throw the bill out with them.

Governors didn't want this disaster on their record. They also read the bill that says the Feds would give the states money for the expansion, and then leave them to take care of it, on their own.
Obama didn't name it. The Republicans did.

The FACT is the country is better off with the law than without. It will NEVER be tossed out.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 07:40 PM
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And how is it "basically a Republican plan"? What Republicans have pushed for, for years, are tort reform and the ability to purchase insurance across state lines, neither of which are included in Obamacare.

While I probably should have said "mature" instead of "elderly" with respect to maternity coverage, saying that an Obamacare high-deductable policy is the same as catastrophic insurance is totally ignoring the fact of the huge premium difference between the two.

I have never questioned that a good point of Obamacare is coverage of pre-existing conditions. I do, however, believe that if that was actually the intent of the push for the ACA, that it could have been done better, cheaper, and with much less disruption.

When this bill was sold to a partisan Congress that had not even had a chance to read it, the cost was projected at $900 million dollars. Most of that was "paid for" by raiding Medicare, specifically payments to Medicare Advantage plan providers, causing large numbers of seniors to get insurance-cancellation notices two years ago, and a six- to ten-fold increase in their premiums to replace the Advantage plans with ordinary Medicare supplements. A year ago that cost estimate was "corrected" to $1.8 billion. The most recent projection I've heard is now $2.8 billion. What happens to everything else government spends money on?

As for states not going along with Medicaid expansion, please remember that a number of states, including ones like California which have huge Medicaid expenses, have been flirting with bankruptcy even without the expansion. So the feds say, don't worry, we'll pick up all of the cost the first year, and only slowly taper that aid off just a little bit. Question: why should anyone believe that? Especially as Obamacare expenses continue to ratchet up? The federal government has been supposed to pay 40% of special education costs all along, and has never provided anything even close to that despite its promises.
Is it not basically Myth's plan, scaled to a national level?

"Sold to Congress?" Congress wrote it! 2000+ pages is certainly not what Obama has in mind. Could it have been done better? Of course, but not in America. The rest of the world laughs at America's inability to provide basic health care without adding provisions for every corporate sponsor of government.

The catastrophic policy is still available - FACT. It is now available to all regardless of health - FACT. The risk is now shared by all - FACT. Therefore, some premiums go up, some stay the same. And millions who could not obtain insurance before now can.

If you have your health, consider it a blessing tax. Obamacare has no death squads. It is the people opposed to Obamacare who are the death squads.
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Old November 12th, 2013, 11:29 PM
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Why isn't it called Congress care? Why did Obama call it his own? Why does he talk about his legacy? You simply can't claim something that works, and disavow when it goes wrong.
Luanne, you're a riot.

1. Obama did not name it Obamacare. Republicans did, because they hate the law and they hate the president.

2. Obama shrugged and said he doesn't mind it being called Obamacare because, fundamentally, he's proud of it and is pleased that it represents the beginning of a solution to an age-old problem that the rest of the civilized world solved long ago, and that we haven't.

3. The surest way you will know that the ACA is working is when the Republicans STOP calling it Obamacare.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old November 13th, 2013, 01:03 AM
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Luanne, you're a riot.

3. The surest way you will know that the ACA is working is when the Republicans STOP calling it Obamacare.
and then try to take full credit for it.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 09:52 AM
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Obama said he liked that it was called Obamacare. I really don't think the real name applies, does it? Affordable Care, PLEASE!!!!!!

My brother finally got on the exchange. The policy that would allow him his Cancer treatment was reasonable, monthly, but the deductible was 17,000 a year.

You know I almost feel sorry for the Dems. Their house of lies are falling. They believed in the Pied Piper, and now their own elections are in danger.

I take no joy with what is going on. The American people were fed a pack of lies.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 09:59 AM
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Actually, I'll be perfectly happy to henceforth refer to it exclusively as the ACA. I agree that although the impetus behind its passage was the President's, the monster that evolved from it is really Nancy Pelosi's baby.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:54 AM
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The professional liars are the GOP. Democrats can't compete on that level.

For Congress to say they passed a bill and didn't read or know what was in it is laughable. Of course they knew what was in it including all the special interest provisions and BS they stuffed into it.

The proof will be at the ballot box and the GOP will once again be scratching their heads wondering what happened? America waking up is what happened. The extremists will never win.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 12:16 PM
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My brother finally got on the exchange. The policy that would allow him his Cancer treatment was reasonable, monthly, but the deductible was 17,000 a year.
And the deductible on the old policy was, I assume, zero. Funny how there's always one fact missing in these stories that prevents you from getting the whole picture. Look, for all I know the old deductible might have been zero, or it might have been $25,000, but if you're going to try to make a case, then give us all the information, not just part of it. This technique is now being used time after time to show individual situations in the worst possible light. The most common ruse is to compare an old plan to an exchange plan without factoring in the government subsidy for which the person is eligible. But of course, none of this qualifies as a "pack of lies." Just selective interpretations of the truth.

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I take no joy with what is going on.
You'd never know it from your posts.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old November 13th, 2013, 01:47 PM
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Barack Obama. Somehow, he's different. I can't put my finger on why, but he just is.



AR - Barack Obama is different because he is the least experienced and most liberal President ever elected.


I have to assume you are alluding to the racism fallacy - but race has never been a factor for Conservatives. If you recall, Lincoln freed the slaves.


Barack Obama was known to have the most liberal voting record of any member of congress for the four years he served (not even one full term). Furthermore, he had no job experience. Barack Obama has been given more of a "pass" to get away with crap than any President in history, by a media that brands anyone who criticizes him as a racist, hater, Neanderthal, cretin, fabulist... whatever.


It is Obama's record that makes him different - and that is all. In the long run, the fact that he was black will be long forgotten, but the fallacious way in which the ACA law was foisted upon the American public will be with us forever.


Hey - we all know we needed health care reform, But to say republicans never came to the table is a lie. Every time a Republican has ever gone to Obama's table he has been ridiculed by Obama.


Remember McCain at the economic table? ("elections have consequences, John"), remember How Obama greeted all the work Paul Ryan put into a comprehensive budget plan? Calling it "a “Trojan Horse” and “thinly veiled Social Darwinism.”


In other words - the reason Republicans stopped going to Obama's table is because Obama has no respect for anyone who doesn't agree with him. The prez is a disaster when it comes to working with Congress. It's well-known and documented.


I love it that even Bill Clinton had the balls to say that Obama blew it and that he owes it to America to right his wrong.


Why aren't we calling Bill a Racist? Oh, because he isn't a Republican, of course. Every republican is a racist, but no democrat can ever be one, right AR?
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Old November 13th, 2013, 01:50 PM
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For Congress to say they passed a bill and didn't read or know what was in it is laughable. Of course they knew what was in it including all the special interest provisions and BS they stuffed into it.

So - you just confirmed that the democratic Congress as well as the President deliberately lied to the American public.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 02:37 PM
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So - you just confirmed that the democratic Congress as well as the President deliberately lied to the American public.
No, I didn't. I can confirm the right wing extremists have been deliberately lying all along, and throwing tantrums trying to get their (minority) way.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 02:48 PM
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I love it that even Bill Clinton had the balls to say that Obama blew it and that he owes it to America to right his wrong.
Clinton also said "The big lesson is that we’re better off with this law than without it". Of course, the biggest wrong that needs to be made right is the state expansion of Medicaid. Obama can't do anything about that.


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Why aren't we calling Bill a Racist? Oh, because he isn't a Republican, of course. Every republican is a racist, but no democrat can ever be one, right AR?
You're getting warm.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 02:54 PM
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And the deductible on the old policy was, I assume, zero. Funny how there's always one fact missing in these stories that prevents you from getting the whole picture. Look, for all I know the old deductible might have been zero, or it might have been $25,000, but if you're going to try to make a case, then give us all the information, not just part of it. This technique is now being used time after time to show individual situations in the worst possible light. The most common ruse is to compare an old plan to an exchange plan without factoring in the government subsidy for which the person is eligible. But of course, none of this qualifies as a "pack of lies." Just selective interpretations of the truth.



You'd never know it from your posts.
My brothers deductible was 5000. I didn't mean to leave anything out, but gave the info I thought was enough to be clear.

He does not qualify for Gov help.

AR, Be very careful with your words of wisdom, and knowing all. This is my brother we are talking about. A well respected member of his community. A good man who now must find the money to pay, plus find new doctors to treat him, before he dies.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 03:23 PM
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Why isn't it called Congress care? Why did Obama call it his own? Why does he talk about his legacy? You simply can't claim something that works, and disavow when it goes wrong.
Republicans started to call it Obama care as a put-down. Of course all the Obama haters jumped in on the band wagon.

I am not making this up.

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Old November 13th, 2013, 06:06 PM
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My brothers deductible was 5000. I didn't mean to leave anything out, but gave the info I thought was enough to be clear.

He does not qualify for Gov help.

AR, Be very careful with your words of wisdom, and knowing all. This is my brother we are talking about. A well respected member of his community. A good man who now must find the money to pay, plus find new doctors to treat him, before he dies.
Nothing against your brother, never was. But no, the picture wasn't clear until you cited the current deductible.

There are other factors too, but in balance I agree that people who will pay significantly more under a new plan should be grandfathered in some way, made whole. And just so you know, assuming the monthly premium is a wash, I do consider a delta of $1,000 a month significant. Very significant.(17,000-5,000/12).

I do not agree that everybody who simply "likes" their current plan should get a pass. But I think that cases like the one you cite, where the numbers are clearly out of whack, should be subject to some sort of review and adjustment, and I think that's what will happen.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 06:39 PM
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I suspect something will be done about all the policies being cancelled, once the GOP stops shutting the government down.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 07:48 PM
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I sure hope you are right AR and some adjustments will be made in those cases....I must say, I am surprised at some many people's policy's being cancelled, I don't think they meant for that to happen? Or did they???
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Old November 14th, 2013, 01:12 PM
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I guess now the GOP will changed to name to GOPCare. kind of catchy

Got GOPCare?



Republicans Blast Obama's Support of Their Idea

WASHINGTON - Moments after President Obama said he would allow Americans to retain their original insurance under Obamacare, leading Republicans blasted his proposal. "Now that the President is for it, we're convinced that it's a horrible idea," said House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), warning the President that "any future agreeing with us will be seen as a hostile act."
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Old November 14th, 2013, 01:52 PM
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He did try to keep the disaster from taking place before the 14 elections. You have to give him credit for that.

I just wish he was thinking about the American people, and not the elections.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 02:30 PM
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The next time the GOP gives a damn about the people will be the first time.


The only current disaster I am aware of is the one in the Philippines.


I'm convinced Obama could walk on water and the usual suspects would still whine about it.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 03:26 PM
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I think maybe even his peeps are starting to realize he is not as good as he thinks he is.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 03:46 PM
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and congressional ratings will soon be below zero. The people will never forget which party held America hostage and shut the government down. I have little doubt the sore losers will do it again.
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Old November 14th, 2013, 04:23 PM
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and congressional ratings will soon be below zero. The people will never forget which party held America hostage and shut the government down. I have little doubt the sore losers will do it again.

Z The Gov was shut down because the Reps said ACA wouldn't work. If it had been slowed down, or stopped, there wouldn't be this mess with a bad web site, and there surely wouldn't have been a shut down.

If people believe this is all Reps fault, then they lack the knowledge to know what is going on.

What you and your fellow Libs better realize is this is not good for your party.

I did hear something funny a few minutes ago. They said if the White House was now going to control our health care, then every American should send him a stool sample.
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