Go Back   CruiseMates Cruise Community and Forums > People > Open Debate
Register Forgot Password?

Open Debate The only forum to discuss politics and religion. Please keep it civil.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 17th, 2014, 11:37 AM
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 715
Default Murderer was uncomfortable during his execution what about how his victim suffered

Source of following article :Robert Higgs, Northeast Ohio Media Group
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on January 16, 2014 at 10:58 AM, updated January 17, 2014 at 7:29 AM

"COLUMBUS, Ohio Dennis McGuire, a murderer convicted of raping, choking and stabbing a 22-year-old woman, was executed Thursday, becoming the first man the state put to death using its new cocktail of drugs for lethal injection.

McGuire, 53, was pronounced dead at 10:53 a.m. at the Southern Ohio Correctional Institute in Lucasville, according to the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction. He was sentenced to death for murdering 22-year-old Joy Stewart in 1989 in Preble County. Stewart was newly married and about 30 weeks pregnant.

He acknowledged he was responsible for the murder last month in a letter to Gov. John Kasich two days before his clemency hearing. Kasich later accepted the recommendation of the Ohio Parole Board, rejecting clemency for McGuire.

This was the first execution in the country that used a new and untried lethal-injection cocktail involving midazolam, a sedative, and hydromorphone, a morphine derivative.

McGuire appeared to gasp several times during his execution, according to a witness account.

He made several loud snorting or snoring sounds during the more than 15 minutes it appeared to take him to die. It was one of the longest executions since Ohio resumed capital punishment in 1999, Associated Press reported.

McGuire's manner of death was quickly criticized. The group, Ohioans to Stop Executions, called for a moratorium on executions in the state.

"Today's execution shines the spotlight on the impossibility of executing people in a humane way," said Kevin Werner, the group's executive director "

The raping, choking and stabbing of the 22-year-old woman, who must have suffered excruciating pain and agony dictated his execution even though it was one of the longest in Ohio's history.
Actually the execution could be considered a scientific experiment in finding a way to execute an inhuman fiend in a humane way.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old January 17th, 2014, 11:44 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Palm Coast, Florida
Posts: 19,651
Default

The way they do it in China is humane and cheap. One bullet to the head is very quick.

In the USA, it seems that criminals have more rights than the victims.


TM
__________________
CRUISES
Century 4/1998
Mercury 4/2000+4/2006+7/2007
Sensation 4/2002
Infinity 4/2003
Summit 4/2004+4/2005
Carnival Liberty New Year's Eve 2007
Liberty of the Seas 5/2008+11/2009
Solstice 4/2009
Oasis 4/2010+4/13/2013
Allure 1/16/ 2011
Equinox 4/11/2011
Independence of the Seas 12/29/2013
Booked Allure of the Seas....12/27/2015
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old January 17th, 2014, 12:23 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
The way they do it in China is humane and cheap. One bullet to the head is very quick.


The way they do it in most of the rest of the world is even more humane and cheap: they don't do it. What the article didn't say is that the reason they had to use different drugs is that nobody in the world will sell the old ones to the states for execution any longer. Even worldwide big pharma sees the practice as barbaric.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Manuel View Post
In the USA, it seems that criminals have more rights than the victims
TM

The only way this argument makes sense is if you consider executions vengeance rather than punishment. No execution has ever brought a murder victim back to life. The death penalty is well known to be racially biased in its application, financially biased in its application, and geographically biased in its application. And that's just for the guilty! Beyond that, we kill innocent people all the time, as the long list of those released from death row after being shown to be innocent proves beyond any doubt.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old January 17th, 2014, 10:13 PM
zydecocruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,858
Default

I was not aware that anyone interviewed the corpse of the convicted and confessed rapist/murderer.

In any event, he lived longer and died faster than his victim. I leave the rest up to God.

If he suffered? Bring back the firing squad, guillotine, whatever.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old January 17th, 2014, 10:17 PM
zydecocruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
[/B]
Even worldwide big pharma sees the practice as barbaric.
only because they aren't paid enough.

reminds me of NFL free agency. most will sell their soul for a few extra dollars.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2014, 05:44 AM
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 715
Default

I personally am angered by stories about murderers and rapists. It makes me angry to think about the pain and suffering these persons inflict upon other humans. Yes the rapist and the murdered is sick ans you can call capital punishment revenge if you want too, But it boils down to one thing in my mind, the sickos who take a life are not entitled to life. They will not be changed by rehabilitation and they also pose a threat to their fellow prisoners and the guards. They have the opportunity to wreak more havoc on society and to harm more individuals and to cause persons to live in fear.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2014, 07:06 AM
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 201
Default

I grew up 15 minutes from the prison where this happened, and my father was a guard in this prison for many years. This man admitted to this crime, so there is no question as to his guilt. I'm sorry if his son was traumatized by watching his fathers execution, but it was his choice to be there. It was his father's choice to kill that innocent woman, and her innocent unborn child. Neither of them were given any choice at all! There are times that I'm torn by the death penalty, but this is not one of them.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2014, 10:42 AM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,476
Default

Happily, all of you who favor the death penalty are clearly out of step with the overall views of Americans, not to mention the huge majority of the civilized world. But I know that many of you consider being out of step with the world a badge of honor. These days I guess it's called "American Exceptionalism." It used to be called "Isolationism."


As I pointed out in another thread, fully 30 states have not executed anyone in the last five years, and most executions are centered in a very few states. 18 of those 30 states have banned it outright, the rest are refusing to execute despite the fact that it is legal. All but a few of the remaining states do it much more rarely than they used to. The trend is clear, and the point will come where even the Luddite Supreme Court will have to agree that when executions are determined by a narrow range of geography (not to mention whether you can afford a good lawyer and whether you're a minority), they are by definition arbitrary, capricious and therefore unconstitutional.


Death-penalty advocates are losing momentum rapidly, and will soon be buried as more and more people come to understand the inherent unfairness of a broken system, even if they favor vengeance. As the number of people released from death row after their innocence is proven reaches into the hundreds, it is dawning on America that the moral risk of executing the innocent is too great.


fourxbusymom says that she is "torn" by the death penalty argument. So are a lot of people. And more and more of them are realizing that it's far too simplistic to say "kill if there is no doubt." Because any lawyer will tell you that there is ALWAYS doubt, even when there's a confession or witnesses. That's why our criminal standards say, "beyond reasonable doubt." But when we execute those who are found guilty "beyond reasonable doubt," we are by definition killing some innocent people. We always have, and we always will for as long as the death penalty stands. This has been proven over and over again, in many different ways.


And it is just one of many reasons why I say that we need to ban the death penalty, and the sooner the better.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2014, 11:38 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,518
Send a message via Yahoo to Luanne Russo
Default

Why not treat him the way he treated the victim. There are plenty of cons who would volunteer to brutally rape him repeatedly. Take one of his children, and let him watch, like he did her. Cut his throat from ear to ear, and let him bleed out slowly, as she did. Let him scream, and beg, as she must have.

What is good for the goose, is good for the gander.
__________________
Ecstasy 2005
Conquest 2005
Elation 2005
Conquest 2006
Conquest 2007
Ecstasy 2008
Valor B2B 2008

Conquest Virtual Cruise Topic Link
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2014, 01:03 PM
zydecocruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,858
Default

Out of step with what?

No doubt the main reason for lack of executions is lawyers and the painfully slow legal process in America.

Kill all the lawyers first and things will get back on track.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2014, 01:26 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zydecocruiser View Post
Out of step with what?

No doubt the main reason for lack of executions is lawyers and the painfully slow legal process in America.

Kill all the lawyers first and things will get back on track.

Good one, but provably untrue. The legal process is painfully slow, thank goodness, because if it weren't many of those who have been released because they are innocent would be dead.


The pipeline is the pipeline. It takes forever, yes, but the throughput is relatively consistent and certainly doesn't account for the huge reduction in state-sponsored killing. What accounts for the reduction is what I pointed to. State after state is banning executions (this cannot be argued with, just look it up). THAT is the main reason for the decrease, along with the de facto bans by a number of other states.


The argument that wins the day time after time is the one you all have ignored in your "hang 'em high" responses: we have and we will continue to kill innocent people unless we stop this. That is unacceptable. Period. And not one of you has addressed it.


By favoring the death penalty you are by definition saying that the collateral damage of executing the innocent is acceptable to you. It is not acceptable to me, or to the people of roughly 30 states.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2014, 02:02 PM
zydecocruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,858
Default

Apathy is more likely what led to bans.

Far more innocent people are murdered, sometimes horrifically, than will ever be mistakenly executed. Given the advances in technology, the odds of an innocent person being executed today are far less than they were in the old wild west.

I have to think that some, of what can't be many, innocent people, are spending the rest of their lives behind bars, and prefer execution.

I does seem that most mass murderers these days prefer to die on the scene, then risk the rest of their lives behind bars. Thankfully.

One way that would reduce a lot of this unpleasantly would be effective gun control.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2014, 03:19 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zydecocruiser View Post
Apathy is more likely what led to bans.
No, laws are almost never changed due to apathy. Quite the contrary. Laws are changed due to activism, and that's what happened here. Case in point: Illinois used to be a very active kill state. Then a bunch of students at my alma mater got together and reviewed the cases of those on death row, and in a large number of them made airtight arguments for their innocence. Ironically, although my alma mater has a very good law school, this project was undertaken by the students of the journalism school, one of the finest in the country. The governor was so aghast at these findings that he ordered a temporary ban on all executions, which eventually became permanent. I have never been prouder of the kids at the old school, where apathy was surely not the cause of what happened!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zydecocruiser View Post
Far more innocent people are murdered, sometimes horrifically, than will ever be mistakenly executed. Given the advances in technology, the odds of an innocent person being executed today are far less than they were in the old wild west.
Are you seriously trying to make the case that because innocent people are murdered it's OK to execute some innocent people? Surely not. You're much smarter than that. As for the odds of an innocent person being executed today being lower than in the past, see above. It is still happening and will continue to happen for any number of reasons, including inept pro bono counsel, police incompetence, and rank racism. There are other issues too, many of them turning on the concept of "pre-meditation," which is usually required for a death penalty to be enforced, and which is highly subjective even when the raw facts of the killing are not. Even though proponents love to simplify the issues, the issues are not simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zydecocruiser View Post
I have to think that some, of what can't be many, innocent people, are spending the rest of their lives behind bars, and prefer execution.
Case histories do not bear this out, and I've read a fair number of them. You may "have to think it," but I would suggest that a little research might be in order before you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zydecocruiser View Post
I does seem that most mass murderers these days prefer to die on the scene, then risk the rest of their lives behind bars. Thankfully.
Yes it does seem that way. Although since most of them are friggin' nuts, it's difficult to know whether they're even capable of such a calculus or whether it just happens because of improved police response times, procedures and other similar factors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zydecocruiser View Post
One way that would reduce a lot of this unpleasantly would be effective gun control.
Very true.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old January 18th, 2014, 05:11 PM
zydecocruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,858
Default

Apathy of the majority fail to prevent the bans, not because of a handful of activists making noise.

Perhaps when you know someone who has been raped and murdered you'll forget the academic exercises.

The solution is not to ban executions but for a federal law that would be applied equally in all states. Of course the states rights groups would oppose. Along with federal gun control.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old January 19th, 2014, 06:25 AM
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 715
Default

A uniform federal law that is enforced is a good idea, but just as marijauna is banned under the federal law the states trump the federal law. I don't know what the answer is, but willingness of the bad guys to attack law enforcement
personnel is another disturbing trend which I wish could be curbed.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old January 19th, 2014, 10:19 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,518
Send a message via Yahoo to Luanne Russo
Default

I am all for gun control. Figure out a way to take guns from the bad guys.
__________________
Ecstasy 2005
Conquest 2005
Elation 2005
Conquest 2006
Conquest 2007
Ecstasy 2008
Valor B2B 2008

Conquest Virtual Cruise Topic Link
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old January 19th, 2014, 12:14 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zydecocruiser View Post
Apathy of the majority fail to prevent the bans, not because of a handful of activists making noise.

You are welcome to believe that death penalty advocates are in the majority. You're not right, but even if you were it wouldn't be the first time that the will of the majority was thwarted. See: universal background checks for firearm purchases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zydecocruiser View Post
Perhaps when you know someone who has been raped and murdered you'll forget the academic exercises.

Ah, dear. The problems of not knowing who you're talking to. Suffice it to say that I did know such people, there is no "perhaps," and my mind was not changed. People's lives, whether innocent or not, are never "academic exercises," and I believe it is immoral to view them as such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zydecocruiser View Post
The solution is not to ban executions but for a federal law that would be applied equally in all states. Of course the states rights groups would oppose. Along with federal gun control.

Be sure to send me a note when either of those things happens.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old January 19th, 2014, 12:21 PM
AR AR is offline
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luanne Russo View Post
I am all for gun control. Figure out a way to take guns from the bad guys.

Go to the head of the class. I never thought of that. When you come up with some practical, down-to-earth ideas on how to do this, please post them here. I have a funny feeling that the devil is in the details.
__________________
The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place. -- George Bernard Shaw
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old January 19th, 2014, 05:05 PM
zydecocruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonnyprincecharlie View Post
A uniform federal law that is enforced is a good idea, but just as marijauna is banned under the federal law the states trump the federal law. I don't know what the answer is, but willingness of the bad guys to attack law enforcement
personnel is another disturbing trend which I wish could be curbed.
State law doesn't always trump federal law but it might take a constitutional amendment.

On gun control, the easiest way would be to confiscate all of them and due proper background/sanity checks on the owners. If they pass they can have them back.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old January 19th, 2014, 05:09 PM
zydecocruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AR View Post
You are welcome to believe that death penalty advocates are in the majority. You're not right, but even if you were it wouldn't be the first time that the will of the majority was thwarted. See: universal background checks for firearm purchases.




Ah, dear. The problems of not knowing who you're talking to. Suffice it to say that I did know such people, there is no "perhaps," and my mind was not changed. People's lives, whether innocent or not, are never "academic exercises," and I believe it is immoral to view them as such.




Be sure to send me a note when either of those things happens.
I guess I'm not holier than thou. I'm okay with that.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Executive orders to stop mass murderer games and films shazam Open Debate 10 January 23rd, 2013 04:30 AM
cruisedot forum victim cruisedot victim Ask CruiseMates Staff 10 June 19th, 2011 04:29 PM
is being on an end uncomfortable? megs Princess Cruise Lines 10 December 6th, 2007 03:18 AM
Execution delayed (violent & explicit content contained) JeanS Chit - Chat for Cruisers 15 February 23rd, 2006 12:04 AM
Emails re: recent crime victim on Carnival? cruiselover Ask CruiseMates Staff 19 November 8th, 2001 07:06 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:28 PM.
design by: Themes by Design

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1