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Old November 2nd, 2000, 08:32 AM
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Default Shorts?

Hi: Leaving on Dawn on 11-18th. My next question is about wearing shorts at night. Is possible to wear shorts after the dinner hour say to go to the casino or the bars or on the dance floor or just haging around on deck oris it strickly "country club casual"? Thanks, Bob
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Old November 2nd, 2000, 11:52 AM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Bob, cruise lines try to establish an atmosphere of a fine hotel or resort in the evenings and shorts are frowned upon even after diner. But, No one will stop you from wearing them. If you change, you probably won't be alone. The majority of guys will probably wear docker style pants with collared golf style shirts. Don't forget the public rooms are highly airconditioned and even though it may have been warm while in port, on a moving ship, it can be quite cool on deck.
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Old November 2nd, 2000, 02:39 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Thanks. I kinda figured that would be the answer
Watching the weather, it may not beto good when we get there on 11/18
Bob
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Old November 3rd, 2000, 10:21 AM
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Default RE: Shorts?

I looked at your itinerary and other than a rain shower, the weather should not be bad. It is off season, but hurricanes should not be a factor this late in the Month. Last year there was one in the deep Southern Caribbean area in mid November so you never know. Enjoy yourself. Bring a good book that you have been anxious to read, work out in the gym, or take in a lecture. Relax and Rejuvenate.
Bon Voyage
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Old November 3rd, 2000, 01:05 PM
Carole Dunham
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Default RE: Shorts?

We were on Ocean Princess last March. We went with friends on their first cruise. The lady would have loved to dress up. the gentleman said no neckties on his vacation, so dinner on foormal nights was eaten in the Bistro. One formal night we joined them. We stayed in shorts all evening. We weren't embarrassed and nobody else seemed to care either. It's your vacation. Enjoy.

Carole
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Old November 4th, 2000, 10:16 AM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Thanks
we are looking forward to formal night but I think we will only do one of them. I was just thinking about what I should wear. I generaly don't wear shirts and ties unless I am making a presentation to a customer. I am sure we will have fun and realx and party and abuse ourselves.....that about covers it? Right? Bob
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Old November 4th, 2000, 08:24 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Hi Boomer,
You sure got that right :-) I think you are going cruising with the right state of mind, so enjoy and can't wait to hear all about it.

Donnassei/Sealover
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Old November 10th, 2000, 11:53 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Boomer,

For us guys, it's pretty easy to do two formal nights. Just bring a second dress shirt and a second necktie to wear with your dark suit. There also will be one or two semiformal nights, for which you will need dress shirts, neckties, and either a sportcoat (to wear with dress slacks) or a light suit.

You might not appreciate this before you go, but you will discover two things aboard the ship.

>> 1. There's something really wonderful about seeing everybody all decked out in their "cruise ship formal" finery and

>> 2. You really won't want to miss dinner in the dining room on the formal nights because there's a direct correlation between the menus and the dress code. On the last formal night, for example, the appetizers generally include caviar (skip it -- tastes like fish eggs!) and the entrees typically include twin lobster tails, roast pheasant, and beef wellington.

Anyway, do have a great cruise!

Norm.
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Old November 12th, 2000, 07:08 PM
we'resoexcited
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Default RE: Shorts?

We've changed to shorts on many cruises after dinner. We didn't feel out of place or uncomfortable. Most people do stay in the same dinner wear afterwards. But we don't mind. We like being casual. Nobody would say a word.
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Old November 12th, 2000, 07:49 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

we'resoexcited,

Aboard Princess ships, the dress (formal, semiformal, or casual) is prescribed for THE WHOLE EVENING. This means that it is supposed to apply to the shows, the casino, the disco, and all of the lounges after 6:00 PM. I'm a little unclear as to whether it's also intended to extend to the Horizon Court (or other 24-hour restaurant on the lido deck), which is sometimes billed as a casual alternative, so I would like to see greater clarity in this area.

I have noticed a general lack of enforcement of dress codes aboard Princess vessels, and I have also heard quite a few passengers say that they made comments about the lack of enforcement on their cruise evaluations. For better or for worse, it does detract considerably from the formality of the event when a few individuals act with such wanton disdain for the rest. If the company gets enough comments from dissatisfied passengers, I would expect some movement toward tactful but firm enforcement of the dress code ("I'm sorry sir, but the dress this evening is semiformal so you need to a tie an a coat to come into the theater."). I also have every intention of inviting the attention of Mr. Ratliffe to this situation at the earliest opportunity. It's not in the company's best interest to tolerate a situation in which the social missteps of a few passengers are alienating the majority.

If you don't want to dress up for formal evenings, please do yourself, Princess, and our other passengers a favor by booking your next cruise on a line that does not hold formal evenings (Windjammer Barefoot Cruises might be a good choice, and I'm sure that there are others) rather than on a cruise line that does hold formal evenings. That way, you won't be in the position of spoiling everybody else's evening while proving your ignorance of social etiquette to the rest of the passengers.

Thanks in advance.

Norm.
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Old November 13th, 2000, 12:44 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Hi: Thanks for the "word up"
Bob
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Old November 13th, 2000, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Dear Norm,

I understand your view point about being dressed up on the Formal nights because it does give a nice atmosphere. BUT I have traveled on Cunard to Carninval and I have seen the gammit. I think the cruiselines now are offering the alternative dining for people who may not want to get dressed up. That is fine because that is their choice. We have to understand that times have changed and going on a cruise is not the way it was in years past. I think it should be mandatory for people to be dressed for the Formal part of the evening (The Captain's Cocktail Party, Gala and Welcome aboard dinners, and Return Passenger's Party). If someone does not feel comfortable not wearing their formal attire to a show, dancing in the disco, or in the casino that should be OK. That is the reason why people are vacation. So, I don't think we should be snotty and perk our noses up to everyone, but maybe you can enjoy your evening your way and we're so excited can enjoy thier evening their way.

Wishing everyone a wonderful trip,

Buffy
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Old November 13th, 2000, 04:20 PM
weresoexcited
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Default RE: Shorts?

I am sorry my opinion bothers you. But I do have both the right and choice to wear what I want during the evening. I shall dress appropriately for certain times, during the captain's cocktail party, dinners etc. But afterwards it's my choice. I don't know who Mr. Ratcliffe is. But I hope you aren't the type to have run and told the teacher everytime a classmate didn't do what you like.
I hate taking things down to a personal level. But these boards are designed for all people to express their opinions, experiences and general thoughts.

It is after all quite rediculous to expect all to conform to one set of standards. Dressing down doesn't mean I'm going to run around like a madman. But if you want strict conformity I would consider, you having a few drinks before leaving your cabin as this will make your cruise more appealing.

Have a safe cruise.
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Old November 13th, 2000, 05:15 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Well, I have to agree w/ Norm on this one. Once I get formally dressed for the evening , thats it. I don't change into anything else, especially shorts. You are usually in casual clothes or bathing suit all day, why change AGAIN! Suzie
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Old November 13th, 2000, 07:31 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Why not. If I want too. If I feel more comfortable.
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Old November 16th, 2000, 07:45 AM
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Default RE: Shorts?

I just returned from sea princess nov 4 - 11. Dress code is what every you want to wear. Formal night some people were not in suits or tuxs or gowns. Several times on casual night I saw several people at dinner in shorts and tee shirts. Nothing was said to them about there clothes in the dining room, so why not wear what you want, obiviously princess cares more about money than the proper dress on board ship. I have been on Carnival ships and have seen people asked to leave and return with proper dress. Dress in the lounges was also casual,I guess the elegance of cruising is another lost art in these days of casual dress.
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Old November 16th, 2000, 01:41 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Hi: Thanks for the response. I had no idea I would stir up so many people.
This is our first cruise of many, I hope.
Fear not, traditional cruise lovers, I have bought a new suit (sorry, not tux) and the friends who are going with us have all agreed that it would be cool to dress up for a change.
Only hrs to go now!

C-Ya
Bob
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Old November 16th, 2000, 03:00 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

First off I have to admit to being one of the folks that enjoy the ambiance created on the ship for the couple of times there's formal nights. And I do stay "dressed" for the entire evening.
I like to think those evenings are a part of what makes a cruise vacation special.

That said, I've never seen anyone turned away from a dining room for not appearing in "suggested attire." If the cruise lines want to maintain this tradition, they should take a more active approach and put in place a dress code, rather than "suggested attire."
That's not to say they couldn't attempt to please everyone. Possibly the answer is having some public rooms or lounges onboard designated "casual" for specific evening, while others retain the "dress code" for that evening.
I did notice in our cruise docs for our Carnival cruise this weekend, it states in BOLD letters, NO T-Shirts, or Shorts in the Dining Room. However, there is no mention of blue jeans, which used to be a no no as well. Guess the trend is to more casual.
I don't mind at all for casual nights. But, personally, I'd like to see the formal nights kept in place.
Fortunately I've yet to see a cruise line document or brochure outlawing antlers!

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Kuki
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Old November 16th, 2000, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Hi:

Antlers...ROFL...thats a cute one.. I get the idea, however.
We are going to be formal and pretend we are meeting James Bond...then we are going to stand on the very tip of the bow, like in Titanic. We will let you know if they put us in straight jackets.

Thanks for all the great advice on the trip. I feel informed and like maybe this is our second cruise instead of our first.

Cheers!

Bob
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Old November 17th, 2000, 12:01 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Hi Boomer,
Wow, so you're a romantic too :-) Hope you both enjoy this first cruise and keep on cruising! Bon Voyage!

DOnnassei/Sealover
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Old November 18th, 2000, 12:14 AM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Buffy,

Princess's stated policy is that dress for the EVENING -- including the shows, the casino, etc., in addition to any cocktail party and dinner in the dining room(s) -- is formal or semiformal or whatever. As I said earlier, I'm less than clear on whether it extends to the Horizon Court (or other 24-hour restaurant).

People who don't wish to dress up for formal evenings should choose a cruise line that does not have formal evenings aboard ship.

Norm.
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Old November 18th, 2000, 12:16 AM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Rick,

I know of at least one stockholder who is addressing the matter of failure to enforce evening dress with management. I hope that you will se a change of policy in this regard in the near future.

Norm.
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Old November 18th, 2000, 12:20 AM
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Default RE: Shorts?

We'resoexcited,

You're absolutely right in saying that I don't have the ability to stop you from proving your ignorance of social etiquette to everybody else onboard -- which is precisely what those who show up for the shows, etc., in attire other than that prescribed as "Tonight's Dress Code" in the Princess Patter are doing.

Norm.
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Old November 18th, 2000, 12:12 PM
we'resoexcited
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Norm,

You're a major snob. There are no cruise lines outside of maybe Windjammer that don't have formal nights. I couldn't care less about you being a stockholder. For all you know so am I. And if you turn this or any other cruiseline into a totalitarian regime where they control your thoughts people will choose to do what they want. I don't believe that people should go to dinner in a pair of shorts or the same for the captain's cocktail parties. But I do want to enjoy myself to the fullest I can. Would you prefer me to wear my tux into the swimming pool at night, because it's formal night? I hope you do address this with management, but unless you have a majority of the stock. You're a fool to think they're going to listen to a self proclaimed keeper of the faith. So I hope that not only are we on the same cruise but that I am sitting at your table. In my shorts and a ripped t-shirt.
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Old November 18th, 2000, 12:52 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Norm,

I am not sure where you are looking when you say "Princess stated policy". I have looked at my documents, the website, and their brouchure and there is no formal policy that I could find. On their website they do make suggestions but it does not show that this is their formal policy (see below). As I have stated to you before I believe that todays cruiselines understand that some(not all) people do not want to get dressed up on these nights. Unless you are traveling on the QE2, Silverseas, or other cruiselines that charge '$3900 for an inside cabin. That is why Princess has decided to use the Horizon Court for a Bistro at night and whre they serve in a more casual atmosphere. That is the beauty of "Grand Class Cruising" according to Princess you can do what you want when you want. If it is stated in their Newletter on how to dress for the evening, that is not policy. That is a suggestion on what to wear for the evening.

Believe me, I don't mind getting dressed up. It gives the ship a beautiful atmosphere. I do beleive in freedom of choice and if this is how some people want to be well, it should not spoil your evening. REMEMBER: You don't have socialize with everyone. What there should be is a dress code enforced at the pool area for people who wear bathing suits that are too small or just do not fit the body properly. But hey, that would be a perfect society.

Once again I would like to wish everyone a safe trip,

Buffy

Clothing Suggestions:
You should dress for cruising the same way you would dress for any smart land-based resort. Casual sportswear including shorts, light-weight pants and jogging suits, is the order of the day both at sea and ashore in our hotter climates. Just remember to bring a light sweater or jacket for cool evenings. For shore excursions, bring a sweater, a light jacket, and an all-weather coat, depending on your destination. Due to unpredictable weather, don't forget a hat or visor, and a collapsible umbrella.

You'll also want low-heeled, rubber-soled shoes for strolling on deck as well as comfortable walking shoes or sandals to wear while exploring.

Dressing Up
When you're in port, evening dress is casual, slacks, sweaters, blouses, open-neck shirts, etc. are typically worn. Shorts, cut-off T-shirts, "torn" jeans and bare feet are not permitted in the dining room. For semi-formal evenings, passengers dress as they would for a fine restaurant at home, with ladies in skirts/dresses/ pantsuits and gentlemen wearing a sportscoat or suit. Tuxedo rental can be arranged prior to the cruise on certain itineraries. On formal nights, ladies prefer evening gowns or cocktail dresses and men turn out in tuxedos, dinner jackets, or dark suits. See the chart below for general dress code schedule.


Length Of Cruise # Of Evenings Casual # Of Evenings Semi-Formal # Of Evenings Formal
7 days 4 1 2
10 days 4 - 6 3 - 4 2
11 days 5 - 7 4 - 5 2
13 days 6 - 7 4 - 5 2
14 days 5 - 8 5 - 6 3
15 days 5 - 8 6 - 7 3
16 days 7 - 8 6 - 7 3
19 days 8 - 9 7 - 8 4
21 days 10 - 12 7 - 8 4
23 days 10 - 12 7 - 8 4
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Old November 18th, 2000, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Buffy,

It seems to me that you have found the stated policy and quoted it accurately. If you are searching for a "thou shalt..." in the policy, you won't find it because that's not the way in which policies are stated in polite company. Nonetheless, the absence of those words does not lessen the expectation of conformance with the policy.

There is some confusion today regarding the use of the terms "suggestion" and "recommendation." According to etiquette, a "suggesion" always goes from the "senior" person to the "junior" person and it carries an expectation of conformance (the military explanation is that a "suggestion" should be taken as a direct order) whereas a "recommendation" may go from the "junior" person to the "senior" person and, in any case, leaves discression to conform or not to the judgement of the person to whom the recommendation is given. In a social context, the notion of "seniority" may be established by office or by position of honor as well as by age. Thus, even the use of the phrase "we SUGGEST..." (emphasis added) rather than "we recommend" in this policy statement implies an expectation of conformance.

BTW, the evening's dress always appears in TWO places in the Princess Patter. The first place is on the front, directly below the Princess Patter masthead. The second place is at the top of the evening entertainment section on the third page -- where it's very obvious, if you see it, that it's intended to apply to the evening's entertainment.

As I noted in an earlier post, I'm not clear as to whether the evening's dress is intended to extend to the Horizon Court or not. I have seen this billed as a "casual dining" alternative. I have only gone there after the show and all the passengers seemed to be dressed, but that fact may well reflect only that they had not changed. I suspect that casual attire would prevail there during the early dinner hour.

Norm.
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Old November 18th, 2000, 09:49 PM
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Default RE: Shorts?

Norm, you are one giant boob. Senior or junior, this is not reality. Recomendations as defined in the dictionary is a far cry from an order or demand. It is merely a suggestion. Policies when created are guidelines to be followed. These are as stated are not policies, but suggestions. I understand your narrow minded viewpoint. Which you, of course, are allowed to have. But casual dining means casual dining. It does not specify a dress code nor is it implied. Formal dress for the evening is a request of the cruiseline for the evening but it nowhere states in any document, policy, or procedure that it is a mandatory objective. If all chose to be formal than ok. But that is an individual choice. On vacation whether going to a country club or lounging in the back yard. It is still vacation. Open your mind and except people for who they are and what they do. You seem to be a very old military man but you must know that you should never strictly follow orders blindly.

If you don't like it, buck up soldier. Write to the president. In the mean time I just went to dinner in my underwear.

I love you norm. See you on my next cruise.
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