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  #31 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul1
and no you don't have the right to complain about us.
We absolutely have every right to complain about you. If you think you have the right to put smoke in our faces, the we for sure have the right to complain about it.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 03:13 PM
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richstacy is way to far too full of themself.GET off your high horse because you are not now or will you ever be better than i or any other smoker.and look at the woman who just died of lung cancer and never smoked a day in her life nor spent time around smokers.I work in health care and I see 80 - 90 year old who are still smoking
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Old March 28th, 2006, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by paul1
richstacy is way to far too full of themself.GET off your high horse because you are not now or will you ever be better than i or any other smoker.and look at the woman who just died of lung cancer and never smoked a day in her life nor spent time around smokers.I work in health care and I see 80 - 90 year old who are still smoking
...so because a woman died of lung cancer who didn't smoke means it is ok to smoke?

You work in health care, and you still smoke?

Do you honestly not know how bad it is? Do you really not know what it makes your car, house, clothes smell like? Do you really think that non-smokers are just overreacting and really aren't irritated by your smoke?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by richstacy
To luvtocruise99, who has too much"respect" for her mother to try to get her to quit, apparently she has never watched a relative die of lung cancer or emphysema -- I have had that very unpleasant experience. Believe me if you had real respect for your Mom, you would move heaven and earth to get her to quit, Now!
Congratulations on quitting smoking. It is a very hard thing to do and definitely something worth being proud of. However, I'm sure it's something you did because you wanted to do it and because you were ready to do it, not because of prodding and lecturing from those around you. My mother is a grown woman. She knows full well the dangers of smoking and she doesn't need me or anyone else lecturing her constantly about those dangers. I respect her right to make her own choices, even when I don't agree with them, just as I expect her to respect my rights. In the end, we all have to live (or die) with our choices and it is only by our own desires that we can make the decision to change.

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Originally Posted by richstacy
Also, I don't know where you live but there are now 13 states and hundreds of cities in the U.S. with total smoking bans. It is predicted that within 5 years 85% of the U.S. will be in the same situation. Here in Colorado, after July 1, smoking is banned in all restaurants, bars and public places. even outdoors. someone lighting up at a Bronco's game or a Rockies game at Coors field will be arrested. Guess you and your mom better stay out of Colorado. The truth is that everyone learns to live with it, and the smart smokers quit and add years to their lives.
I live in California where smoking has been banned in all public buildings for many years. It's not much of a problem because smokers can always step outside to have their cigarette. If smoking was to ever be banned outdoors too, that would pose more of a problem for the smokers. However, I suspect that a total outdoor ban would be highly unenforceable and widely ignored, so maybe it wouldn't be much of a problem afterall.

In any case, that is totally irrelevant to the economics of cruising. According to the American Heart Association, 24% of men and 19% of woman still smoke. These people may be willing to step outside the restaurant to have their cigarette, but I doubt they would be willing to endure 24 hours a day on a non-smoking cruiseship or even tolerate having to run from their cabin to the bowels of the ship everytime they needed a smoke. They would just take their vacation dollars elsewhere. What business do you know that can afford to lose 20% of their customers? And consider that the cruiselines actually stand to lose much more than 20% since the they would also lose the smoker's traveling companions. It would be a financial disaster for the cruiselines.

I have no doubt that the cruiselines will someday be smoke-free, but that won't happen until the percentage of smokers dwindles to the point that it's an economic win for the cruiselines. In other words, not likely to happen anytime soon.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2cruise99
I live in California where smoking has been banned in all public buildings for many years. It's not much of a problem because smokers can always step outside to have their cigarette. If smoking was to ever be banned outdoors too, that would pose more of a problem for the smokers. However, I suspect that a total outdoor ban would be highly unenforceable and widely ignored, so maybe it wouldn't be much of a problem afterall.
Have you seen the new anti-smoking law that Calabasas, CA passed. Smoking is just about banned everywhere (including most outdoor areas) except for inside your home.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 04:30 PM
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this board is cracking me up! Does anyone remember when the airlines first suggested going smoke free back in the 80's? Then it became a law? This board sounds alot like those days!

People yelled, screamed, whined, etc about the rule. But I haven't seen one person today complain about the airlines rules now.

For you smokers out there - get over it. You guys are a dying breed. Here in CT & NY (and any other states out there following?) there is NO smoking allowed in restaurants, malls, etc. Non-smoking everywhere is slowly winning. And its just a matter of time before someone(s) get really ticked off & pulls a Jihad on the Tobacco industry & sets a fire to them. Truth.com does some pretty powerful commercials on TV (for those living in the Northeast, you may have seen them) against smokers.

So, eventually, cruiselines will probably either ban the smoking or only allowed in certain places like outside. I don't blame them if they ban it from the rooms. Ever smell a smoker's room? It stinks. Oh wait, smokers won't notice the difference because when you smoke, your sense of smell is affected.

I still can't figure out why you people smoke? You are killing yourselves. No health benefit, you smell, your teeth look like crap, it races your heart. I could go on & on.

Maybe you should just go to any Search engine & look up Lung Cancer or Black Lungs. Better yet, ask your Doctor to photograph your lungs. You might quit when you see black instead of nice pink color.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 04:45 PM
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luvtocruise99, I would like to know what strange psychological aberration keeps you defending your mother's apparent death wish. One thing is for sure, that is not "respect." The truth is, it's not possible to have a rational discussion with a closed mind. Your mind is closed. One parting shot though -- no I wasn't really ready to quit smoking. My two kids, now adults harassed me constantly until I quit, and I thank God every day that they did. Otherwise, I'd either be dead, or worse yet, one of these poor miserable souls lugging their oxygen around with them and wishing I'd had good sense years ago.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2cruise99
No, most passengers who cruise are not smokers. However, if you consider that if even one person in a family smokes, the entire family is likely to stop cruising once smoking is banned, you can see how that would quickly add up to a big problem for the cruiselines. For example, my entire family of 11 would no longer be choosing cruising as our twice-yearly vacation if my mother (the only one amongst us who smokes) could not bring her cigarettes.
Assume this means you all condone and "enjoy" her habit? Frankly I wouldn't give up something I enjoy just because one family member couldn't smoke when they wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2cruise99
The once non-smoking ship Carnival Paradise was the most heavily discounted ship in the fleet because it had trouble getting enough bookings. I think it's reasonable to assume that was at least partly because it lost alot of large family and group bookings because if even a single smoker was within the group, the entire group booked elsewhere. If smoking bans on cruisehips were to become widespread, these people would just choose other vacation alternatives.
I sailed on Paradise (my 2nd cruise) in part because it was non-smoking and it was sailing the itinerary I wanted. The fact that ship was non-smoking had little to do with why it failed (IMHO). The service, food, cleanliness of the ship were all horrible and if it had been my 1st cruise I would never have cruised again. This is why I will never sail Carnival again (not worth the risk to me, again just my opinion) Everyone of my RCI cruises has been at least above average with some truly exceptionaly vacations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2cruise99
It's also been said (although I don't know if it's true) that smokers spend more on alcohol and gambling than non-smokers. If true, this certainly would be a major concern to any cruiseline considering a smoking ban.
Did anyone ever think that maybe non-smokers would spend more if they didn't have to inhale all that smoke? I know I leave a bar or casino when I can no longer tolerate the smoke (long before I wouldv'e left). My clothes and hair also reek of stale smoke too!
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt1120

I just don't get it. Smoking smells. I'm not trying to be rude or insulting, but doesn't it smells as bad to smokers as non smokers? I'm just curious.
Not really. I quit smoking in 1982. My Dad came for a visit in 1984. No one had smoked in my house since I quit. My Dad stayed for a week and smoked in the house. When I returned from dropping him off at the airport and walked into my house I asked my wife what that God awful smell was (it was a very stale, nasty smell). She said it was cigarette smoke. I asked her if our house smelled that way when I smoked and she said yes. I sprayed an entire can of Lysol through the ventalation system and washed all draperies, etc. No one has ever been allowed to smoke in my house or my vehicles since.

Most smokers don't realize the smoke is in their clothes, in their hair, on their hands, their breath, and it lingers in items in their home.

I don't harp on people to quit but I don't have to make their life easier to smoke either. Airports banned smoking and created a little room. Work places banned it and now smokers congregate outside the door (sometimes it's like walking through a fog).

While some smokers are considerate most aren't (even when I thought I was I wasn't because I didn't realize the impact on others until I quit (and I smoked for 14 years!)
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mjyanne
Assume this means you all condone and "enjoy" her habit? Frankly I wouldn't give up something I enjoy just because one family member couldn't smoke when they wanted.
I neither condone nor enjoy her habit, however, I do recognize her right to have it. You're missing my point. I enjoy cruising BECAUSE it is something that the whole family can do together. Leave mom, or any other family member, behind and it just wouldn't be the same. Spending time with my family is more important to me than being on a cruiseship. I'm sure we can find other vacations that are just as nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjyanne
I sailed on Paradise (my 2nd cruise) in part because it was non-smoking and it was sailing the itinerary I wanted. The fact that ship was non-smoking had little to do with why it failed (IMHO). The service, food, cleanliness of the ship were all horrible and if it had been my 1st cruise I would never have cruised again. This is why I will never sail Carnival again (not worth the risk to me, again just my opinion) Everyone of my RCI cruises has been at least above average with some truly exceptionaly vacations.
You obviously don't enjoy Carnival cruises, which is fine, that's a matter of opinion and many people agree with you. However, Since Carnival has no trouble filling their other ships, it would leave me to believe that prohibiting smoking is what doomed the Paradise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjyanne
Did anyone ever think that maybe non-smokers would spend more if they didn't have to inhale all that smoke? I know I leave a bar or casino when I can no longer tolerate the smoke (long before I wouldv'e left). My clothes and hair also reek of stale smoke too!
It has been widely reported on these boards (although I have no hard evidence that it is true), that the Paradise had the very lowest bar and gambling revenues in the entire fleet. If this is true, than obviously the non-smokers on the Paradise were not using the services on the same par as the other ships and it could not be blamed on cigaratte smoke.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
luvtocruise99, I would like to know what strange psychological aberration keeps you defending your mother's apparent death wish. One thing is for sure, that is not "respect." The truth is, it's not possible to have a rational discussion with a closed mind. Your mind is closed. One parting shot though -- no I wasn't really ready to quit smoking. My two kids, now adults harassed me constantly until I quit, and I thank God every day that they did. Otherwise, I'd either be dead, or worse yet, one of these poor miserable souls lugging their oxygen around with them and wishing I'd had good sense years ago.
I don't defend my mother's "apparent death wish", I defend her right to make her own choices free from lecturing from me or anyone else. Yes, you were ready to quit smoking, that is why you succeeded. Many people TRY to quit smoking (my mom has tried MANY times), but only those who are truly ready succeed.

Maybe your kids' nagging did encourage you to keep trying, but my time for nagging my mother has long passed. When children nag a parent to stop a nasty habit, it may guilt the parent into trying to change because who doesn't want to set a good example for their children? However, when an adult nags in the same way it is only seen as "intrusive" and "obnoxious" and has a way of destroying relationships. I am approaching 40 years old. My time for nagging my mother passed about 30 years ago.
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Old March 28th, 2006, 09:37 PM
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Good grief, kids! You've got me so worked up I need a cigarette - and I don't even smoke!

This is a dead-end thread even though there have been valid arguments on both sides. BUT, it's not going to be solved here, or anywhere else.

And yes, we should all wait to find out what the exact cause of the Star Princess fire was before anyone starts judging smokers vs. non-smokers. There was a fire, a person died, people were injured - we just don't know why yet.

So, now I need a glass of wine, is that o.k.?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old March 28th, 2006, 10:29 PM
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I'll certainly join you in that glass of wine
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Old March 29th, 2006, 12:10 PM
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FIrst of all I am a non-smoker and always have been and while the smell of someone smoking is very nauseating to me I do appreciate the need for smokers rights. However, those of you who are "considerate smokers" unfortunately are a minority. Most don't care who they affect. A perfect example is all the smokers gathered right outside of a mall entrance having their cigarettes right underneath the NO SMOKING sign or the same can be said outside of hospitals. Anyway, my point is that the cause has not yet been proven and judgement should be reserved until it is. I am surrounded by non smokers in my family and friends and when I do encounter someone who smokes it is very noticeable to me and very offensive BUT I have also been sitting in a room where someone has OVER perfumed or cologned themselves and that can be just as offensive as cigarette smoke. Just my 2 cents.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 10:39 PM
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In a 2002 study provided by the National Fire Protection Association, it identifies cigarettes as the leading cause of home fire fatalities in the United States.
In the US, cigarettes caused 34,800 fires nationwide, resulting in 760 deaths, 1690 injuries, and $386 million in direct property damage
In the UK, cigarettes caused 4,000 house fires, 136 deaths, and nearly 2,000 injuries.
One-quarter of victims of smoking-material fire fatalities are not the smokers whose cigarettes started the fire: 34 percent are children of the smokers; 25 percent are neighbors or friends; 14 percent are spouses or partners; and 13 percent are parents. Trash, mattresses and bedding, and upholstered furniture are the items most commonly ignited in smoking-material home fires.
In a recent study by the American Burn Association, about 900 people in the United States die each year in fires started by cigarettes. About 2,500 are injured, and 100 of the fire deaths each year are children and nonsmokers. Human and property costs of fires caused by careless smoking total about $6 billion.
Smoking causes an estimated 30 percent of fire deaths in the United States and 10 percent of fire deaths worldwide. Almost every day, someone in America dies from a fire caused by a cigarette.
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Old March 30th, 2006, 12:30 AM
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Thats great news alforma. It just proves that its safer on a cruise ship then on land. So far (except for the heart attack victim) I don't recall any fatalities or injuries caused by cigarette induced fires on a cruise ship.

Remember, the jury is still out as to the cause of the star fire.
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Old March 30th, 2006, 09:33 AM
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Default Smoking On Ships

Like many others, I support the removal of smoking on ships.

For 2 reasons:

a) Potential danger at sea (albeit is has been rare)
b) Majority of people do not smoke

Combining the 2 together, means removing smoking is in the "public good" - it is however, NOT in the companies good.

I understand that smokers spend more on booze, gambling etc (at least this was the argument to eliminate the smoke free Paradise). If this is true, it is a rather unflattering, pathetic comment on smokers.

If the cruise lines believe their revenue will go down - then they will have to make up the revenue other ways.

It is really their decision - unless they are forced to end smoking via the Coast Guard etc.

All I know is this - whether on a ship, restaurant, in my backyard, at a camp ground, shopping mall - I am not interested in being assaulted by anyone else's smoke, perfume or noise. All these items spread through the air like viruses and are very disruptive and unhealthy to others. Keep all of it to yourself, enjoy your smoke, perfume and loud noise from your voice, kids, MP3, cell etc - Revel in it - But as a courtesy to others, please contain it to your direct person or space you own or rent and do not allow it to move to others space or presume others like it.

This is a very important issue in confined spaces like a ship.

I highly value privacy and work hard to not to impact anyone else.

Not caring about how your actions affect others is the defining characteristic of our rapidly decaying western world.

It is really hard for cruise lines to meet the needs of all patrons - it can't happen.

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Old March 30th, 2006, 03:05 PM
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Paul1 - I am not a smoker, hate it beyond belief, but I WILL stand up for your right to smoke in a designated area. In doing so, you are observing my rights as a non smoker, so I give you that respect in return.

Folks, leave Paul1 alone. His choice is his choice. If he chooses to FOLLOW THE RULES and smoke in a designated area, we should respect him for doing so.

Me? I still hate the habit, but I do have respect for people who follow set guidelines.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old March 30th, 2006, 03:29 PM
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"Me? I still hate the habit, but I do have respect for people who follow set guidelines. "

We all "respect" those who follow the rules. That's not the point. The point is, that in the big picture, "designated smoking areas" are becoming fewer and farther between --everywhere. Cruise ships will be no exception.
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Old March 30th, 2006, 11:08 PM
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Just a note for you smokers to think about...

You ALL will quit smoking someday, whynot do while you can still enjoy breathing?
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Old March 30th, 2006, 11:34 PM
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I also think its funny that one day all you health nuts will be lying in a hospital bed some where, some day, dying of-------------------NOTHING.
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Old March 31st, 2006, 01:35 AM
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This thread has gone beyond the point of being useful to anyone... and has turned personal.

Personal attacks are NOT allowed!!!
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old April 6th, 2006, 09:48 PM
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Default Here are my 2 cents

First I am a smoker. However, I do not smoke around non-smokers. If I am in a casino smoking area and someone politely asked me not to smoke I won't. We book balcony cabins when we cruise, so that I can smoke on the balcony. But, if my neighbors are non smokers and politely inform me....I will only smoke out there when I am alone. And you can be assured that I do not leave a lit cigarette unattended and I would NEVER throw a butt overboard. Even in states that allow smoking in food establishments....I don't.....I go outside.
Also, I just wanted to point out that a very large percentage of the crew on the ships are smokers....and we have been on a non smoking cruise ship......Guess what.......the crew still smokes!
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Old April 8th, 2006, 10:15 AM
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I was a pack a day smoker for several years before I quit- cold turkey. Just didn't buy them anymore. This was over 20 years ago. I did not realize how much I offended others until I stopped. The smell of smoke now literally makes me sick. I am a nurse, and should have known better.
The really interesting thing to me is the people that smoke the most in a hospital setting are the respiratory therapists. Go figure.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 11:37 AM
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This has been a very interesting thread. I can't believe people actually believe that someday smoking will be outlawed. The government could do that today except they wouldn't know how to replace all the tax money and they know it wouldn't work. Remember prohibition? How about the war on drugs? Now as far as cruising goes, it seems it would be simple to designate one side of the ship as smoking and one side as non smoking. The non smokers who booked early enough to get on the non smoking side would not have to worry about smoke while on their balcony. By the way, my spouse and I are non smokers who have no problem with smokers just doing what is legal.
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Old April 12th, 2006, 04:11 PM
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Default Smoking on balconies and in cabins

The bottom line is the bottom line: cruise ships, government, etc. Can we all spell REVENUE. Also let's remember many, many passengers come from other countries where a large percentage of the population smoke (oh, god help us) and they wonder why the land of the free is taking away rights one, by one, by one. We have gotten on our soapbox, jumped up and down and become increasingly more and more judgmental. Get over it - no one is getting out of this world alive.
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Old April 12th, 2006, 11:34 PM
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One good Idea Would be if every cruise line make one side of the balcones on the ship non smokeing. This way non smokers can enjoy the ocean brice without haveing to secondhad smoke.
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Old April 13th, 2006, 12:33 AM
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Ha Ha, that wont work, some extremest non-smoker will say the smoke is blowing over the top of the ship....Of all the things to ***** about, you guys are *****ing about smoking........live and let live.......I am going to take up smoking on my cruse, just to piss off you extremest.... Anyone got a lite??? People that make a big deal of nothing, have no life's.... If someone is smoking by you and you don't like it say something about it nicely, walk away, or go inside. Someone said something about what California is doing about smoking, this state has banded smoking inside, but ok'ed smoking weed, lets not fallow their lead on this..... To the lady that started this mess of a post, get a drink, pull out the stick, lite up a fat one, and move on.......
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2006, 02:18 AM
Juan C.
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Because smokers like you is why nonsmokers say that smokers are iconsiderate.
(you don't need to be rude).
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old April 20th, 2006, 07:37 PM
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I suspect over the coming years smoking areas will reduce in size and we may see more non-smoking cruises. Perhaps not a whole ship, just a number of cruises on that ship.

I agree that smoking is decreasing in Anglo-America, and in some Western Countries, but anyone who travels outside of this area will realize that smoking is alive and well in Japan, Latin America, China and other major areas. Last time I flew on Japan Airlines, they were still offering smoking section since the planes did not touch on US soil but flew from Tokyo to Vancouver to Mexico City. Likewise, ALM still had smoking last time I flew them too.

Vancouver enacted a non-smoking bylaw some years back. One of the tradeoffs for the ban was that although there could be no smoking permitted inside a restaurant, the facility could not ban smoking on their patios, even if they wanted to. Not being a smoker, I was disappointed with this becuase I enjoy eating al fresco, but the air out there isn't fresco anymore.

I think the poster that suggested making one side of the ship smoking had the best idea. Given the 20% smoker figures, it might even be enough to make the rear half of one side smoking, thus avoiding blowing smoke.

And, if the cruise line seriously wants to attribute a higher safety risk to smokers, smoking cabins could perhaps come with an extra $10 charge per cruise for insurance purposes - though I doubt they'd need that.

The nice thing about all that is that as cruise passengers smoke less and less, the percentage of smoking cabins could be reduced.

The alternative, full non-smoking ships, will probably come to pass eventually, but I don't see entire cruise lines going non-smoking within the next 20 years.

In the meantime, if the person in the balcony next to me is smoking, well, so be it. It's permitted and they've paid their money the same as I have. Unless they're chain smoking on their deck and the ship is not underway, it should all blow ever in a few minutes.
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