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  #91 (permalink)  
Old July 24th, 2006, 07:21 PM
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George,

Thankfully they don't collide much. But I never say never....

Yes, and indeed I chose my words very carefully to avoid use of the word "never" in this context. Freak incidents do happen, and probably always will. Nonetheless, a collisison at sea probably is the least likely incident involving a commersial cruise ship. There are many casualties that are far more likely than a grounding -- a passenger having a heart attack, a serious fire, a grounding, etc. -- but these also are extremely rare.

... now that it aooears, as reprted by CBS 2 Florida, that Crown incident was indeed just plain old common human errro....

Thanks for posting the account. I hope that we'll get the report from the official investigation in due time.

NCL Dream collides with BURNING cargo ship. Maybe they didn't see the FIRE, the ship on radar, or hear any distress calls?

It's more likely that the cruise ship respoinded to the distress call and was attempting to maneuver alongside the burning ship (to windward, please!) to evacuate personnel and perhaps to put firefighting teams aboard. The international laws of the sea require every vessel that receives a distress call, including cruise ships, to respond to it. Most cruise lines schedule some cushion in their transit schedules in case the ships receive a distress call.

Start reading NTSB reports and then Canadian ( aha!!! that's why I couln't find that ship I had wrote about that left NY and went aground, I remember now it was Canadain NTSB version report ) comparable NTSB agency and you have just a little less acceptance of the perfection fo sea travel.

A grounding is not a collision. It's a very different type of incident that poses a very different set of hazards.

Norm.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old July 24th, 2006, 08:11 PM
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and could you belive the story about the looters,trying to steal jewelry and art work,are you sure this ship wasnt,one of the ones from new orleans?? oh im sorry,new york
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old July 24th, 2006, 11:15 PM
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Default Princess tells it like it is

Princess posted today that the list was caused by human error and the person responsible was no longer there.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old July 25th, 2006, 02:04 AM
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vawterf,

Princess posted today that the list was caused by human error and the person responsible was no longer there.

Well, that's not quite precise. Princess said that they have made "the appropriate personnel changes" without amplification as to the meaning of that phrase. It may well mean that the deck officer who did the wrong thing has simply been reassigned to other duties onboard pending further training.

The line posted a letter to passengers explaining the mishap in the "Press Release" section of the web site.

Norm.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old July 25th, 2006, 08:48 AM
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Some final comments in response.

Norm, Reading the report it was not a situation of Dream assisting. It looks like the cargo ship was transversing lanes to seek an out of the way area to lay while fighting the fire onboard and was apparently not seen by Dream and struck. Certainly the cargo ship was not where she should be and was unexpected, still it is almost unimaginable that whith all the radars and bridge personal that the Dream managed to collide with her. Perhaps an unfair assessment by me not being a seaman, just hard to imagine.

I would find it hard to beleive that Princess would merely change the duties of whomever they deemed responsible for this error. estimations range from 5 to 16 million dollar cost of this indicent to the cruiseline. I cannot see a corporate entity not taking a rather harsh position both on the culprit and probably his superior. Ultimately the Master of the ship holds all authroity and subsequently all responsibility. I would be shocked if this was not a career breaker for two or more people.

Hippy, Yes looters and New York I can see the conclusion drawn and I can't say that it would be totally unfounded. however I must offer some defense and clarity to what is often a generalization regarding New Yorkers and the state. I do admit that on recent sailings from NY I did note that during the sales ontable tops in the atrium there was a unifored security person assigned to the area. Presumably to prevent possible shoplifting. I have not seen that generally on ahips so maybe a reaction to sailing from NY with many New Yorkers. I wil also admit that the dress code can be somewhat lossely interpreted by some of my fellow NY's at least those from the boroughs around Manhattan. Still I point out that a large portion of the state, matter of fact 98 % of it probably, is farm country and many. many New Yorkers have never even seen the City. Most of New York is indeed rural. The NY cruises also are populated by a vast surrrounding area as well such as Jersey, Penn, Mass, RI, Vermont, Maryland, Delaware and so forth.

I will also defend New Orleans looting with exception. After days of no response by government I would guess that I too would consider breaking into various stores for supplies to survive justified. I do think that those that decided plasma TV's were a necessary survival article might have been absolved as simply being to stupid to be held accountable. In any group, NY or otherwise, there are always those that should have been recycled at birth, what can I say
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Old July 25th, 2006, 12:17 PM
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I am glad princess came out with this release and said the truth, I think it is extremely important for their reputation and veracity to come clean about the incident, and I commend them for doing so.

The truth is, it was obvious it was human error from the time the line announced it was continuing on from Port Canaveral and it had been determined that there was absolutely nothing wrong with the ship that would preclude it from continuing to operate. That statement implies human error was the cause, but I was just waiting for Princess to say it themselves before I pointed it out.

Good work Princess, though it is hard to admit someone made an error, it is better for the public to know the situation is now under control. The ship is as safe as any other ship at sea, and considering hoe rare such errors are, that is pretty safe.

However, I can point out than not too long ago (less than two years) Princess had another listing incident where few were injured, but it was also attributed to human error. I'm guessing we are looking at a few procedural changes.
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Old July 25th, 2006, 04:36 PM
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George,

I would find it hard to beleive that Princess would merely change the duties of whomever they deemed responsible for this error. estimations range from 5 to 16 million dollar cost of this indicent to the cruiseline. I cannot see a corporate entity not taking a rather harsh position both on the culprit and probably his superior. Ultimately the Master of the ship holds all authroity and subsequently all responsibility. I would be shocked if this was not a career breaker for two or more people.

There's also an issue as to whether the individual acted reasonably and responsibly based on what the staff aboard the ship new at the time. If so, dismissal is not appropriate. This might have been one of "those" incidents from which all of the officers on the ship learned some nuance about the steering system that should have been included in their training but, for whatever reason, was not.

About a decade ago, there was an incident in which RMS Queen Elizabeth 2 ran aground off Cape Cod. The pilot recommended following a channel for coastal vessels but the master, considering the deep draft of that vessel, asked the pilot if it might be better to go a bit further from the coast where the navigation chart (published by the U. S. Coast Guard, by the way...) clearly showed deeper water. Unfortunately, the ship's hull found a shallow rock that did not appear on the chart. Yes, the master is in command, but he really was not at fault. Indeed, he did the responsible thing by taking the ship where the chart showed a safer situation (though he did elect to resign his command in observance of British maritime tradition). The ship went out of service for over a month, first receiving for temporary repairs in Boston so she could make it across the poind for permanent repairs.

BTW, this incident occurred before Carnival Corporation acquired Cunard so Carnival Corporation had nothing to do with it.

Norrm.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old July 25th, 2006, 06:06 PM
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Default news release from Princess

I for one appreciate that Princess Cruise Line stepped up to the plate on this one.. Having reseverations to sail on this ship Sept 3d, I have been watching closely any news related to the incident last week. I had no intention of cancelling my trip but did have serious concerns as to what would cause a cruise ship to tip so heavily as this ship did and if there were to be more problems prior to my sailing then I would in turn ask for my money back.. Hearing that it was human error does not assure me that this won't happen again, but there are no real assurances in any mode of travel.. It was also good to hear that the injured passengers are doing well as I had not heard much information about that for a few days..

Joy
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old July 26th, 2006, 08:35 AM
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Joy,

I for one appreciate that Princess Cruise Line stepped up to the plate on this one.. Having reseverations to sail on this ship Sept 3d, I have been watching closely any news related to the incident last week. I had no intention of cancelling my trip but did have serious concerns as to what would cause a cruise ship to tip so heavily as this ship did and if there were to be more problems prior to my sailing then I would in turn ask for my money back.. Hearing that it was human error does not assure me that this won't happen again, but there are no real assurances in any mode of travel.. It was also good to hear that the injured passengers are doing well as I had not heard much information about that for a few days..

True. How many airplanes have crashed due to human error in attempting to land?

Of course, every problem ultimately traces to human error. It might be the human who designed an unstable system, or the human who did not assemble something properly, or the human who fabricated a defective part, or the human whose not-so-thorough inspection failed to notice that a part was wearing out during routine service, or the human who wrote a computer program with "bugs" in it, or any of a myriad of other human errors having nothing whatsoever to do with the operators, but it is ultimately human error nonetheless.

Norm.
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