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  #1 (permalink)  
Old July 19th, 2006, 10:53 AM
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Default Loyalty Question...

Had this posed to me this morning.

Looking at the past year, with the Star Princess fire and now the Crown Princess incident, would I still continue to cruise on Princess (I'm a loyal Princess past passenger)?

YES - things happen on all ships, and these have not been out of any negligence by Princess.

I asked them, you drive Brand X car? Are you going to trade it in and buy Brand Y just because Brand X has an accident?

What about you?
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Old July 19th, 2006, 11:43 AM
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Folks that react emotionally ("the sky is falling") will avoid "Princess" for awhile.
I will be on the "Golden" in November, as planned, and with no hesitation.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 11:44 AM
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I agree with you totally! I was scheduled to cruise on the Star the week following the fire. Was very disappointed that I couldn't get on another Princess ship that week. I am still a fan of Princess and am looking forward to my cruise on the Caribbean Princess this November.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 01:41 PM
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Yes i will cruise Princess again.
These are just unfortunate accidents
I have not lost faith in Princessess products
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Old July 19th, 2006, 02:39 PM
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I'm now a royal caribbean sailor!!!
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Old July 19th, 2006, 05:36 PM
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Default Loyalty question

Please see my answer on the previous thread.

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Old July 19th, 2006, 06:22 PM
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Default When it Ain't Broke

I love my Princess cruising experiences and have no interest in going elsewhere.

Shar
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Old July 19th, 2006, 07:42 PM
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"Stuff" happens. We like Princess and have two cruises booked now and have no intention of changing.

Maybe the prices will go down and we can all cruise Princess together!
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Old July 19th, 2006, 10:29 PM
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CruiseAholic,

I asked them, you drive Brand X car? Are you going to trade it in and buy Brand Y just because Brand X has an accident?

Certainly NOT over an isolated incident, which can happen on any line.

When there's a pattern of serious incidents that appear to stem from a common cause, such as improper maintenance or inattention to the three S's (safety, security, and sanitation), that's another matter -- I'm gone.

Norm.
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Old July 19th, 2006, 11:24 PM
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I am taking my family on the CB 8/5. I belive with most of what I have read it appears that it was an accident after all "@#$% happens"

No offence to all Princess cruisers with status but the readers of these message boards have to take your comments with a grain of salt.

Your status with Princess take away your objectivty.

Here only Norm wisely has addressed the isssue:

Quote:
When there's a pattern of serious incidents that appear to stem from a common cause, such as improper maintenance or inattention to the three S's (safety, security, and sanitation), that's another matter -- I'm gone.
It is not only Princess status people it's my fellow 1K United guys too. Half the fleet would have to go down before these guys admitted thier might be a problem!!

A fire and/or a steering issune has to be investigated the guilty parties exposed.

Lets hope the accident victims recover and get home safely.

Regards,

CJ
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Old July 20th, 2006, 09:20 AM
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caribeanjerk,

A fire and/or a steering issune has to be investigated the guilty parties exposed.

In fairness, there might not be "guilty parties" in either of Princess's recent incidents.

>> With regard to the recent fire aboard MV Star Princess, the ship was in compliance with all applicable safety codes, including the rigorous standards of the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS) treaty. Unfortunately, the fire exposed a couple deficiencies in those standards -- one involving permitted use of certain plastics for non-structural elements (balcony dividers) and another involving an absence of requirements for fire detection and suppression systems in external cavities (cabin balconies). It's unfortunate that the authors of the safety standards did not foresee these issues, but ships that would have suggested these issues were not prevalant when they wrote the standards.

>> With regard to the steering incident aboard MV Crown Princess, electrical and mechanical equipment does malfunction sometimes in spite of the best of test programs.

Also, it's much easier to get to the root of what went wrong if we refrain from playing a blame game. People who face adverse consequences such as criminal charges or dismissal are not too lkely to "'fess up" if they made a mistake. It's usually better, in the interest of a thorough investigation, to make the consequences of a really serious operator error something fairly benign to the individual, like reassignment to a suitable position in the company's headquarters where the individual has some opportunity for promotion and retirement with a decent pension.

Norm.
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Old July 20th, 2006, 10:06 AM
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I Agree Great Answer

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Old July 20th, 2006, 01:50 PM
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Cruisaholic, You said: "Looking at the past year, with the Star Princess fire and now the Crown Princess incident, would I still continue to cruise on Princess (I'm a loyal Princess past passenger)?
YES - things happen on all ships, and these have not been out of any negligence by Princess."

I will not stop cruising on Princess because of these two incidents either, but your statement that neither has been out of any negligence by Princess may well prove ultimately to be untrue. It is far too early to make such a statement.
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Old July 20th, 2006, 08:04 PM
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Carnival plc is a very well run corporation. Mr. Arison is a very strong Chairman. I own both Carnival and plc. I also own Berkshire which is run by one of the sharpest persons on earth. Mr. Arison is in the same league. They do not intend to have unfortunate situations occur. Things happen. I will see you on a Princess cruise on Aug 12. Fear not.

Funship
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Old July 21st, 2006, 09:49 AM
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Funship Freddy,

Carnival plc is a very well run corporation. Mr. Arison is a very strong Chairman. I own both Carnival and plc. I also own Berkshire which is run by one of the sharpest persons on earth. Mr. Arison is in the same league. They do not intend to have unfortunate situations occur. Things happen. I will see you on a Princess cruise on Aug 12. Fear not.

If you think Carnival Plc. (LSE: CCL) and Carnival Corp. (NYSE: CCL) are well run corporations, buy the stock. And buy some shares of General Motors (NYSE: GM), too. They are run about the same way.

A well run corporation is not the same thing as a well run ship.

Norm.
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Old July 22nd, 2006, 08:25 AM
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I am also of the mind that neither of these incidences were Princess' fault. Naturally the Star was not, they are only guilty of trying to provide the nicest decking possible - teak. Passengers are warned every cruise not to throw cigarettes off the ship, and while we don't know for certain, that is the likley cause there.

In this incident, though "computer errors" are rare, it is not out of the realm of possibility that it is a computer error. Princess didn't build or program the computer, those are companies subcontracted by the shipbuilder. I highly, highly doubt this incident was caused by operator error because a turn going the wrong direction at top speed just isn't somthing you choose do, either by programming it or manually.

Look at the problems Cunard (QM 2) had before they were merged with the Princess operations, nothing since then. And those Cunard problems were also not their fault, it was the shipbuilders.

New ships often have problems - that has been shown countless times.

You know some of these shipbuilding companies are on the verge of bankruptcy, only kept going by low margin contracts and subsidies by their governments. They have been bailed out by the cruise lines many times.
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Old July 22nd, 2006, 10:18 PM
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Paul,

I am also of the mind that neither of these incidences were Princess' fault. Naturally the Star was not, they are only guilty of trying to provide the nicest decking possible - teak. Passengers are warned every cruise not to throw cigarettes off the ship, and while we don't know for certain, that is the likley cause there.

Teak decks actually were not the issue aboard MV Star Princess. According to the report by the British authorities (which was linked in a thread on that incident), the problem was a plastic material used used for the partitions on the balconies themselves.

BTW, the reason for teak, rather than other materials, is its ability to withstand weather.

In this incident, though "computer errors" are rare, it is not out of the realm of possibility that it is a computer error. Princess didn't build or program the computer, those are companies subcontracted by the shipbuilder. I highly, highly doubt this incident was caused by operator error because a turn going the wrong direction at top speed just isn't somthing you choose do, either by programming it or manually.

That's basically true, but a computer program is only as good as the software engineers who develop it. Most worthwhile computer programs are complex enough so it is absolutely impossible to test the response to every possible combination of inputs and internal values of program variables, so the development team must identify situations that require particular attention by other means. As a software developer, I can say from experience that this is not exactly trivial and it is very easy to miss some special case that, no matter how improbable, can cause a disaster when it occurs.

New ships often have problems - that has been shown countless times.

Yes. Of course, sea trials that stress the ship's propulsion and steering systems should identify and resolve these problems.

Norm.
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Old July 23rd, 2006, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm
That's basically true, but a computer program is only as good as the software engineers who develop it.
Amen! GIGO!
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