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Old April 16th, 2007, 04:31 AM
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Default FORMAL WEAR

We're new to cruising so could someone tell us if my 14 year old son will require formal wear of any description. I understand on the 7 night cruise on Sea Princess in May there are 2 formal nights. Thanks
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Old April 16th, 2007, 09:01 AM
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jools,

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We're new to cruising so could someone tell us if my 14 year old son will require formal wear of any description. I understand on the 7 night cruise on Sea Princess in May there are 2 formal nights. Thanks
Yes, your son will need formalwear. Princess does not prescribe a separate dress code for children and teens, so he is to follow the same dress code as adults.

If your son has a dark -- and I do mean DARK -- suit, he may wear it (obviously, with a dress shirt, necktie, and dress shoes) on the "formal" evenings. If not, the least expensive option probably would be rental of a "tuxedo" or a dinner jacket outfit.

Having said that, I must tell you that Princess's promotion of "Personal Choice Cruising" several years ago created a fair amount of confusion, partly because Norwegian Cruise Line introduced the "Freestyle Cruising" concept at the same time. There are some fundamental differences between the two programs that were not at all obvious from the respective promotions. In particular, Princess's "formal" evenings remained true "formal" evenings, with the "modified formal" standard of dress that has been in effect since the 1970's. Princess's advertisements were silent about this, while Norwegian Cruise Line advertised that the previous "formal" evenings had become "formal optional" evenings fairly aggressively. Thus, there were more than a few people who thought that "personal choice" meant that one did not have to dress properly for the "formal" evenings. Princess does provide some casual alternatives (a dinner buffet and, on some ships, "Movies Under the Stars" ("MUTS") where casual attire is acceptable). Nonetheless, I have also seen recent posts indicating that Princess is making a fairly aggressive effort to restore the "formal" character of the "formal" evenings. Nonetheless, you may still encounter a few buffoons who don't "get it." Thus, be prepared to explain to your son that those who are not dressed properly for the "formal" evenings are proving their own ignorance of proper dress for the occasion.

Have a great cruise!

Norm.
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Old April 16th, 2007, 04:53 PM
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Hi Jools,

From recent experiences on Sea Princes, the Princess brand is still far less formal than the P&O or Cunard, and although I would still say that your son should have some form of suit as it makes for a special evening, don't be at all surprised to see other teens running around in sports wear, even on formal evenings.

As mentioned the main restaurants prefer people to adhere to the dress code for the evening, but if your son feels uncomfortable with that, the meals served in the Horizon Court in the evening are the same (or more) as those in the restaurants, but the dress code is always casual. I think that the Pizzeria is also casual. Note both of these are free of charge, and NOT to be confused with the Alternate Dining which takes place in the Terrace Grill and down one side of the Horizon Court each evening - however these are both well worth the cover charge.

Hope this helps, have a lovely cruise.

Alan & Katrina.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 10:19 PM
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On the Princess cruises I have been on, many of the teenage boys skipped the jacket and just wore dress slacks and dress shirt, with or without a tie.
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Old April 22nd, 2007, 11:00 PM
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Just put him into a suit.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 02:45 PM
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A sport jacket and slacks would be completely acceptable.
Jim..
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:42 AM
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Thanks everyone you've been a great help. I'm getting really excited now with only 4 weeks to go.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 06:03 AM
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good we are excited also that you are going on a cruise
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Old April 24th, 2007, 12:16 PM
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Jim,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
A sport jacket and slacks would be completely acceptable.
Sorry, but "acceptable" is NOT the right word in this sentence. One might GET AWAY WITH a sport jacket and slacks, in the sense that one might not be turned away, but the only ACCEPTABLE attire is that prescribed by the cruise line. On "formal" evenings, Princess prescribes either "black tie" (a dinner jacket outfit or a "tuxedo") or a dark business suit worn with a dress shirt and tie for gents and either a full length dress or a formal cocktail dress for ladies, or recognized cuitural variations thereof (such as a Scotsman's dinner jacket outfit worn with a kilt rather than with the standard formal trousers), with due accommodation for legitimate religious beliefs and for medical issues and disabilities. Members of uniformed services on active duty may also wear the uniforms of their services that are equivalent to the prescribed attire. Anything else is NOT "acceptable" in any way whatsoever on those occasions.

Norm.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Anything else is NOT "acceptable" in any way whatsoever on those occasions.
Norm maintains the dream

Rightly or wrongly, the reality one will encounter onboard is for teens and even adults dressing more casually than called for in the ship's dress codes.
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Old June 8th, 2007, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Jim,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
A sport jacket and slacks would be completely acceptable.
Sorry, but "acceptable" is NOT the right word in this sentence. One might GET AWAY WITH a sport jacket and slacks, in the sense that one might not be turned away, but the only ACCEPTABLE attire is that prescribed by the cruise line. On "formal" evenings, Princess prescribes either "black tie" (a dinner jacket outfit or a "tuxedo") or a dark business suit worn with a dress shirt and tie for gents and either a full length dress or a formal cocktail dress for ladies, or recognized cuitural variations thereof (such as a Scotsman's dinner jacket outfit worn with a kilt rather than with the standard formal trousers), with due accommodation for legitimate religious beliefs and for medical issues and disabilities. Members of uniformed services on active duty may also wear the uniforms of their services that are equivalent to the prescribed attire. Anything else is NOT "acceptable" in any way whatsoever on those occasions.

Norm.
Retired members of the Armed Forces may also wear their 'Mess Dress' or Dress uniforms if they desire too.!
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Old June 8th, 2007, 05:03 PM
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I agree with Norm on this subject as it has been posted 100's of time across the boards.

Formal is just what it means .. FORMAL.
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Old June 8th, 2007, 11:29 PM
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Norm You are right on with your comments and this is my pet peeve with the cruise lines.Thank goodness for Holland and celebrity which appear to have a little more class than the rest.
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Old June 9th, 2007, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Jim,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
A sport jacket and slacks would be completely acceptable.
Sorry, but "acceptable" is NOT the right word in this sentence. One might GET AWAY WITH a sport jacket and slacks, in the sense that one might not be turned away, but the only ACCEPTABLE attire is that prescribed by the cruise line. On "formal" evenings, Princess prescribes either "black tie" (a dinner jacket outfit or a "tuxedo") or a dark business suit worn with a dress shirt and tie for gents and either a full length dress or a formal cocktail dress for ladies, or recognized cuitural variations thereof (such as a Scotsman's dinner jacket outfit worn with a kilt rather than with the standard formal trousers), with due accommodation for legitimate religious beliefs and for medical issues and disabilities. Members of uniformed services on active duty may also wear the uniforms of their services that are equivalent to the prescribed attire. Anything else is NOT "acceptable" in any way whatsoever on those occasions.



Lighten up, we are talking about teenage boys here. You are living in a dream world.
Jim..

Norm.
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Old June 9th, 2007, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Shark
I agree with Norm on this subject as it has been posted 100's of time across the boards.

Formal is just what it means .. FORMAL.
I agree with you IS!
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Old June 9th, 2007, 11:56 AM
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Jim,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Lighten up, we are talking about teenage boys here. You are living in a dream world.
No, I'm not living in a dream world. I have seen many teenage boys on many Princess cruises looking quite dapper in their (probably rented) tuxedos on "formal" evenings. The question here is what's proper by social etiquette, and what's proper by social etiquette is for teenagers (and also younger children) to comply with the published dress code. If the cruise line intends otherwise, the onus is on the cruise line to publish separate dress codes for children, teenagers, etc., as applicable. In the absence of a separate dress code for children, children are to comply with the same dress code as adults.

BTW, the "formal" evenings on a cruise present a great opportunity for parents to teach their children about social etiquette and the proper attire to wear on certain occasions. Conversely, it's also a great opportunity for children to learn about such things through personal experience of going to a ship's "formal" evenings.

Norm.
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Old June 9th, 2007, 12:18 PM
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GBeret,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Retired members of the Armed Forces may also wear their 'Mess Dress' or Dress uniforms if they desire too.!
For those who wear a military or naval uniform, the uniform should be that which is listed as equivalent to the attire prescribed for civilians in the Table of Uniform Equivalents or the prescribed substitute for those not required to posess the equivalent uniform.

Norm.
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Old June 9th, 2007, 06:34 PM
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Dress pants dress shirt with dress shoes and a tie is perfect for the boys. They usually eat dinner quick don't wait for dessert and get out of the dining room anyway.

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Old June 9th, 2007, 11:47 PM
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Why not send them upstairs where there is no dress code and they will probably be more happy.
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Old June 10th, 2007, 06:45 AM
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because will like to eat dinner together as a family.

I've seen women wear that plain black or flowery dress that is something I would wear to the office or the casual dinner nite. My formal wear consist of beautiful gowns.

So what is right for formal nite??????

boys in dress shirts and ties or suit???

women in a plain black dress or a fancy gown found in the pages of vogue magazine????

whatever floats your boat! boys in dress shirts and tie is ok or boys in a suit is fine too!

women wearing the office dress is fine as well as the women wearing the academy awards red carpet gown.

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Liberty Of The Seas x4
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Old June 10th, 2007, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
GBeret,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Retired members of the Armed Forces may also wear their 'Mess Dress' or Dress uniforms if they desire too.!
For those who wear a military or naval uniform, the uniform should be that which is listed as equivalent to the attire prescribed for civilians in the Table of Uniform Equivalents or the prescribed substitute for those not required to posess the equivalent uniform.

Norm.
Normally, the Mess Dress is the prescribed dress for formal 'black tie' affairs. It is the Army's Tux. There are options with this same Mess dress to cover White Tie occassions as well. (White tie, white vest)

The Army has two Mess Dress uniforms, a 'Blue' Mess Dress and A 'White' Mess Dress. THe Blue is used mostly in the winter months and the White in summer or tropical climates.

(The Army also allows the use of the Blue Dress uniform (Full blouse) with black bow tie and mini-medals on such occassions.)

I can't speak for the other services, although most have a Mess Dress uniform.
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Old June 10th, 2007, 05:21 PM
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There is even a formal mess dress for ROTC candidate.
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Old June 11th, 2007, 07:45 PM
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GBeret,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Normally, the Mess Dress is the prescribed dress for formal 'black tie' affairs. It is the Army's Tux. There are options with this same Mess dress to cover White Tie occassions as well. (White tie, white vest)

The Army has two Mess Dress uniforms, a 'Blue' Mess Dress and A 'White' Mess Dress. THe Blue is used mostly in the winter months and the White in summer or tropical climates.

(The Army also allows the use of the Blue Dress uniform (Full blouse) with black bow tie and mini-medals on such occassions.)
Yes, and also the green uniform with miniature medals, white dress shirt, and black bow tie for personnel who are not required to posess the blue or white dress uniforms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I can't speak for the other services, although most have a Mess Dress uniform.
Yes, but they go by different names. In the Navy, for example, the equivalent uniforms are "Dinner Dress Blue Jacket" (winter) and "Dinner Dress White Jacket" (summer/tropics). Nonetheless, Navy regulations require only (1) officers of the rank of Lieutenant Commander and above and (2) personnel in certain diplomatic assignments to posess these uniforms. All other naval personnel may wear the "Dinner Dress Blue" or "Dinner Dress White" uniforms, which are essentially the service dress/full dress uniforms with miniature medals and, in the case of the blue uniform, a black bow tie rather than a necktie. I think that the Coast Guard's titles are the same as the Navy's. I'm not sure what titles the Marine Corps and the Air Force use.

Norm.
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Old June 11th, 2007, 07:50 PM
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Irish Shark,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
There is even a formal mess dress for ROTC candidate.
Well, Army ROTC cadets are authorized to wear the Army's "Mess Dress" uniforms with insigna of their rank, but they would have to buy them at their own expense because they are not standard issue. There is an alternative uniform that they may substitute, which probably still consists of a white shirt, black bow tie, and miniature medals worn with the basic green dress uniform that the Army ROTC issues to all cadets, but that uniform is not called "Mess Dress."

Norm.
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Old June 11th, 2007, 08:02 PM
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God, It must be nice to be an expert on every topic that is posted here. Or does the term Pompous Ass come to mind.
Jim.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 12:31 PM
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What Jim said! +1
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Old June 12th, 2007, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Irish Shark,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
There is even a formal mess dress for ROTC candidate.
Well, Army ROTC cadets are authorized to wear the Army's "Mess Dress" uniforms with insigna of their rank, but they would have to buy them at their own expense because they are not standard issue. There is an alternative uniform that they may substitute, which probably still consists of a white shirt, black bow tie, and miniature medals worn with the basic green dress uniform that the Army ROTC issues to all cadets, but that uniform is not called "Mess Dress."

Norm.
First, ROTC applies to all braches of the service, not just the Army.

Second, did I or anyone say anything about who pays for the uniform?

Third, stay on topic.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
GBeret,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Normally, the Mess Dress is the prescribed dress for formal 'black tie' affairs. It is the Army's Tux. There are options with this same Mess dress to cover White Tie occassions as well. (White tie, white vest)

The Army has two Mess Dress uniforms, a 'Blue' Mess Dress and A 'White' Mess Dress. THe Blue is used mostly in the winter months and the White in summer or tropical climates.

(The Army also allows the use of the Blue Dress uniform (Full blouse) with black bow tie and mini-medals on such occassions.)
Yes, and also the green uniform with miniature medals, white dress shirt, and black bow tie for personnel who are not required to posess the blue or white dress uniforms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I can't speak for the other services, although most have a Mess Dress uniform.
Yes, but they go by different names. In the Navy, for example, the equivalent uniforms are "Dinner Dress Blue Jacket" (winter) and "Dinner Dress White Jacket" (summer/tropics). Nonetheless, Navy regulations require only (1) officers of the rank of Lieutenant Commander and above and (2) personnel in certain diplomatic assignments to posess these uniforms. All other naval personnel may wear the "Dinner Dress Blue" or "Dinner Dress White" uniforms, which are essentially the service dress/full dress uniforms with miniature medals and, in the case of the blue uniform, a black bow tie rather than a necktie. I think that the Coast Guard's titles are the same as the Navy's. I'm not sure what titles the Marine Corps and the Air Force use.

Norm.
Yes, I wwas aware of the Army's Green Dress uniform; however, I didn't bother to mention it as by the time one retires from the Army one is usually a senior officer, WO or NCO. By this time Officers will have a Blue Mess Dress and most Senior NCO's also or at least the Army Dress Blues.

I see the most junior enlisted people at some of the military formal functions I attend, using the Army dress Green uniform at thses functions; however, as I stated earlier most Senior Officers and NCOs have a Blue Mess Dress or the Blue Dress uniform.

BTW: The Army is phasing out the Green Dress uniform and going to the Dress Blue uniform with some minor changes.

I didn't go into the other services Mess Dress uniforms, as I'm not all that up on them. (Nor, did I have any reason to study them.) I'm aware or know that the Navy and Marines are different then the Army on such formal uniforms, especially in the enlisted ranks.
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Old June 12th, 2007, 05:06 PM
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Old June 12th, 2007, 07:31 PM
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Irish Shark,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
First, ROTC applies to all braches of the service, not just the Army.
Not quite. The Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) actually is part of the U. S. Army Reserve, and it trains commissioned officers only for the U. S. Army. The other services have parallel organizations. The Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps (NROTC) trains commissioned officers for the U. S. Navy and the U. S. Marine Corps. The Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps (AFROTC) trains commissioned officers for the Air Force. By speaking only of ROTC, you (perhaps unintentionally) referred to the Army's organization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Second, did I or anyone say anything about who pays for the uniform?
The point was simply that most ROTC cadets, AFROTC cadets, and NROTC midshipmen do not posess the mess dress or dinner dress jacket uniforms because they are not issued and they are more expensive than the budgets of most college students, even with the scholarships that these programs provide.

Norm.
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