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-   -   Crown returning to port because of Noroviris - Feb. 9 (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/princess-cruise-lines/387538-crown-returning-port-because-noroviris-feb-9-a.html)

felix_the_cat February 7th, 2012 09:33 AM

Crown returning to port because of Noroviris - Feb. 9
 
I understand the Crown has turned around and will be returning to FLL arriving on the morning of the 9th. Apparently there are so many crew members ill coupled with the number of passengers, it is not safe to continue the cruise.

I would think the islands don't want these people bringing noro on their island either.

I also understand Princess will be refunding all cruises fares.

I have found there are so many people who do not wash their hands it's actually mind boggling.

With Princess having so many b2b I would say there are some who get off but get right back on with the bug. Also, people do not want to lose their cruise/money by admitting they aren't feeling well when they board the ship so they just share.............

Princess/CCL Corp is being hit again. This event has been on CTV - Toronto. When they reported the noro event they immediately stated Princess is part of Carnival Corp and the Concordia.

A very bad year for cruising indeed.

anniegb February 7th, 2012 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix_the_cat (Post 1414032)

I have found there are so many people who do not wash their hands it's actually mind boggling.

Felix - I 100% agree.

I have said this before and I have been flamed but just as I said I would disembark any passenger who did not take part in the mandatory safety drills ( and that has NOW happened) ,I would also disembark any passenger caught persistantly not washing hands.

People are paying good money to cruise with folk who could make them ill. Note - I said could.

Princess, if my memory serves me corretly, also had issues last year with an Alaskan cruise.

The cruise ships have to tackle this issue - and yes I know schools etc have the same problem, or it will become a bigger issue than Concordia for many - JMHO.

Annie

Trip February 7th, 2012 10:13 AM

Ok, I have to ask.....who is going to be the hand police, and just how would this be implemented?

Once something happens in the cruise world, any new issue, automatically gets linked to the last issue, with no direct corrolation at all, but, just to sensationalize and grab headlines.

aerospace February 7th, 2012 10:22 AM

I would say skip the buffets but apparently the staff don't wash either. When I worked at subway we washed our hands after every sub or when we changed stations(meat to veggie), my hands actually got so raw after awhile it's one of the reasons I left...but it's part of the job.

felix_the_cat February 7th, 2012 10:23 AM

Be that as it may Trip, it is what is happening. Those that cruise a lot know it but those who have been considering a cruise for the first time don't and now won't.

I don't know who is going to be the hand police. Of course that really isn't possible. Same as the paper you have to sign before you board that says you arn't sick. No one and I mean no one is going to say I'm sick or I don't feel so hot. Why would they. If they were willing to do that in the first place, they wouldn't be at the dock.

I believe the cruiselines have to have an offer in place such as moving your cruise if you are arriving at the port sick. There has to be something in it for the passengers besides non-boarding. The cruiselines don't have anything in place at the dock for anyone who isn't feeling well and shouldn't be boarding therefore will board and not risk the loss of their vacation money.

I don't think insurance would cover this either so...................cruiselines need to step up to the same plate they want their passengers to step to.

aerospace February 7th, 2012 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix_the_cat (Post 1414039)
cruiselines need to step up to the same plate they want their passengers to step to.

How about passing out travel hand santizer when they give you the room key?

felix_the_cat February 7th, 2012 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerospace (Post 1414040)
How about passing out travel hand santizer when they give you the room key?


Works for me. I always have mine in my pocket anyway.

anniegb February 7th, 2012 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip (Post 1414036)
Ok, I have to ask.....who is going to be the hand police, and just how would this be implemented?

Once something happens in the cruise world, any new issue, automatically gets linked to the last issue, with no direct corrolation at all, but, just to sensationalize and grab headlines.

Trip, I agree I am pushing the envelope but something has to be done.

On my last cruise, there was an outbreak of NV and I was chattiing to a crewmember on possible causes etc and they claimed that some of the personal hygiene habits of some of the guests leave a lot to be desired.

We have all seen people leave restrooms w/o washing their hands.

We all know this - Henry,Felix, MercedMike amongst others have all commented.

To me this is a bigger issue than Concordia and no I am not being sensationalist. Concordia, hopefully, will be a one-off but I have not been cruising as long as you but this issue is like a perennial weed - you have to dig it up.

I know what I am proposing is extreme but it would only take one cruiseline to make an example of one or two people and the message would be home.

Look at HAL and the Muster Drill - everyone is talking about it.

I am all for personal freedom but with that comes the price of personal responsibility.

Annie

Trip February 7th, 2012 11:35 AM

One would think, a non washer might wash, just to avoid someone in the rest room, saying something to them, like, ""hey stinky..come back and wash your hands,no one wants to get sick";)

With hand sanitizers all over ships now, threre is no excuse why someone, would not extend their hands...a shame really, when it's easy to be fastideous.

anniegb February 7th, 2012 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip (Post 1414053)
One would think, a non washer might wash, just to avoid someone in the rest room, saying something to them, like, ""hey stinky..come back and wash your hands,no one wants to get sick";)

With hand sanitizers all over ships now, threre is no excuse why someone, would not extend their hands...a shame really, when it's easy to be fastideous.

Would it surprise you to hear that I have made a comment along those lines? :)

And to think the non-washers could go on and handle bread in the buffet lines - yuk. No they don't use the tongs.

I am almost OCD when it comes to hand washing when I cruise.

We all agree, Trip, it is so unnnecessary and avoidable to a great extent avoidable.

Annie

felix_the_cat February 7th, 2012 11:43 AM

I would jut love to say something to those I see walk right out the door. There was someone in our office like that a few years ago. No one would go near her at anytime. No one would have break or lunch with her, no one would enter her cubicle. nada. Finally, someone did say something to her - quietly and privately. She left shortly after.

The only reason I haven't said anything to those I've seen walk out - you don't know how they are going to react and I really don't want to have to pick myself up off the floor.

I don't believe an adult doesn't know exactly what they are doing when they walk out of the bathroom without washing their hands. They are ignorant, plain and simple.

anniegb February 7th, 2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix_the_cat (Post 1414058)

The only reason I haven't said anything to those I've seen walk out - you don't know how they are going to react and I really don't want to have to pick myself up off the floor.

I agree I took a risk - they reacted by swearing - the air was blue but I can handle that :)

The way I look at it is - someone has to say something.

I have also been present when others have spoken out - unfortunately the comments go right over their heads.

Annie

MercedMike February 8th, 2012 11:17 AM

Washing hands
 
There have been many studies done which show people are far more likely to wash their hands in a public restroom when others are present. Putting an attendant in each restroom would take a lot of staff but it might help. When a friendly attendant comes over to the sink and lays a towel there for you to use, it is hard to pass on by! The attendant could also use gloves to open the door.

However, what about the people who simply use the bathroom in their cabin? I would suspect that the rate of hand washing is much lower there in any case.

anniegb February 8th, 2012 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerospace (Post 1414040)
How about passing out travel hand santizer when they give you the room key?

Good idea but to that can we add a nail brush?

Annie

kandajones February 8th, 2012 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anniegb (Post 1414263)
Good idea but to that can we add a nail brush?

Especially as most (I hope) people wash/sanitise the palms of their hands quite thoroughly, but don't do the tips or nails, and that is the part of the hand most likely to touch your lips & allow the germs to enter.

btw I have been known to quite loudly state "I can't believe that guy didn't wash his hands" if I follow one of them out of the restroom.

Alan.

anniegb February 8th, 2012 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kandajones (Post 1414268)
Especially as most (I hope) people wash/sanitise the palms of their hands quite thoroughly, but don't do the tips or nails, and that is the part of the hand most likely to touch your lips & allow the germs to enter.

btw I have been known to quite loudly state "I can't believe that guy didn't wash his hands" if I follow one of them out of the restroom.

Alan.

Alan

Thank you - I do comment on non-hand washers - can't stop myself :) and I always pack a nailbrush.

Even if they left a nailbrush in the cabin bathrooms - I know they might 'walk' but the cost has to be a lot less than the total value of all the refunds Princess will be processing.

Annie

Ron February 9th, 2012 12:54 AM

Hand washing is only part of the problem. You could scrub everyone down as they boarded the ship and still have an outbreak that could affect half the ship. The virus doesn't attack the instant you get it--people come in from all over in planes, get into vans, buses, cabs, etc and pick up all kinds of things that the people who just vacated those planes,vans buses, cabs, etc left behind.
A far as signing a paper saying you are or are not sick, you could be feeling fine when you boarded and sign that , yes, you are well--then a couple days later be very ill. So, signing the form re/ sick / not sick is basically a waste of time.
You can do so much but people have to realize that a ship is basically an enclosed environment on which there are normally 2500 , 3000 or more people from all walks of life thrown together and if someone gets something contagious, it's likely to spread.
I wash my hands thoroughly, not only on a cruise but at home, use Purell all the time and hope for the best.
Regarding using the hand sanitizers prior to going into the dining room, I think they are a great thing but that isn't going to keep you from getting something. When you order a glass of wine with your dinner, how many people have handled that glass after you came in and washed you hands with sanitizer at the door? How many people have handled the salt / pepper shakers prior to you? How many people have handled the menu prior to you--how many have washed their hands, used sanitizer and then coughed or sneezed on the table, menu, salt / pepper shakers, etc?
Yes, I know all about people going through the buffet lines with no manners at all--I've seen people reach and get food with their hands instead of the tongs--seen people get pieces of food, actually put it in their mouths and then lick their fingers and then handle the tongs.
While we're at it, what about the casino? How many hands have been on the slot machines, where all have those hands been,etc before you come along behind them?
It's not just a matter of washimg--- people can help by being clean but as has been mentioned, if there were a way to control their cleanliness or lack thereof in the publlic places, how are you going to control how clean / dirty they are in their cabin?
Then too, what all do they pick up ashore and bring back to the ship that gets spread around?
If you keep going the chain would be endless as to how and why people get sick--main reason that we hear about it is as I first mentioned, it's in an enclosed area --a ship-- If you go to the store, handle the carts, handle food stuffs that others have handled and put back, take a reciept from a clerk that has handled checks and money all day how many germs of different types do you come in contact with--if you get sick then a coupe of days later, most people would never connect it with the store. Same thing at the gas punp. Do you or anyone that you know of wipe down the gas pump handle prior to using it to gas up the car?
Anything that happens on a ship is instant headlines--
If you cruise, you take a chance-- if people are unwilling to take the chance, I can understand it and those should at home where they think it's safe-- safe only in their mind though!
You are likely to get sick anywhere-- it's not news if 200 people in Peoria, Ill. get the back door trots and a tummy ache , although they may have caught it at the store, you just never hear about it as once they leave the store, they spread out all ove the area but if it were on a ship, of course it would be meat for the media. I don't have a solution to the problem and it's pretty plain no one else does, as it's being going on for years and will likely continue.
Do the best you can, use a napkin to handle the tongs with, but don't use it as your regular napkin--cleanse you hands after getting your food and handling the salt / pepper shakers and dig in and hope for the best ! :) :)

Warum February 9th, 2012 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix_the_cat (Post 1414039)
Be that as it may Trip, it is what is happening. Those that cruise a lot know it but those who have been considering a cruise for the first time don't and now won't.

I don't know who is going to be the hand police. Of course that really isn't possible. Same as the paper you have to sign before you board that says you arn't sick. No one and I mean no one is going to say I'm sick or I don't feel so hot. Why would they. If they were willing to do that in the first place, they wouldn't be at the dock.

I believe the cruiselines have to have an offer in place such as moving your cruise if you are arriving at the port sick. There has to be something in it for the passengers besides non-boarding. The cruiselines don't have anything in place at the dock for anyone who isn't feeling well and shouldn't be boarding therefore will board and not risk the loss of their vacation money.

I don't think insurance would cover this either so...................cruiselines need to step up to the same plate they want their passengers to step to.

very valid point made ....

Mike M February 9th, 2012 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerospace (Post 1414038)
I would say skip the buffets but apparently the staff don't wash either. When I worked at subway we washed our hands after every sub or when we changed stations(meat to veggie), my hands actually got so raw after awhile it's one of the reasons I left...but it's part of the job.

Just like with your Subway no two cruise lines or cruise employees are the same.

I will not eat at Subway because of two "unsanitary" things I saw. The first was a girl who rubbed her hair with her hands and then proceeded to continue to make a sandwich. Second and the one that stopped me from going, was when the woman sneezed into her hand, wiped it on her apron, and continued to make a sandwich. I called her on it and walked out.

It only takes one passenger or employee to mess up and multiple people are sick.

I do agree with Trip. I find it disgusting when people don't wash their hands after using the restroom but who is going to be the hand police? I would have no problem with having a bathroom attendant on duty in public bathrooms but their are a few hundred, to a thousand plus, cabins and I don't think they will be putting someone in each one to make sure you wash your hands.

Take care,
Mike

Mike M February 9th, 2012 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerospace (Post 1414038)
I would say skip the buffets but apparently the staff don't wash either. When I worked at subway we washed our hands after every sub or when we changed stations(meat to veggie), my hands actually got so raw after awhile it's one of the reasons I left...but it's part of the job.

Just like with your Subway no two cruise lines or cruise employees are the same.

I will not eat at Subway because of two "unsanitary" things I saw. The first was a girl who rubbed her hair with her hands and then proceeded to continue to make a sandwich. Second and the one that stopped me from going, was when the woman sneezed into her hand, wiped it on her apron, and continued to make a sandwich. I called her on it and walked out.

It only takes one passenger or employee to mess up and multiple people are sick.

I do agree with Trip. I find it disgusting when people don't wash their hands after using the restroom but who is going to be the hand police? I would have no problem with having a bathroom attendant on duty in public bathrooms but there are a few hundred, to a thousand plus, cabins and I don't think they will be putting someone in each one to make sure you wash your hands.

Take care,
Mike

RichC February 10th, 2012 09:03 AM

Obviously there's no way to force people to wash their hands other than education & for older people that's something that should have been done 50 or 60 years ago. They're not going to change their way of life at this point just because of someone else's opinion of what is proper.
The sanitizer is just about worthless to kill the virus. Use it if you like to make yourself feel protected but it's well documented that it does no good against Novo.

The ships policy of filling out the health forms is another joke. No one in their right mind would ever admit to not felling well & jeopardize boarding the ship. If they had a policy of refunding you fare if you actually became sick after boarding & the form was filled out that you weren't felling well, then people might just take it seriously but until then I'm always going to feel OK.
Thing about how much money it would save the cruise lines if they did change their boarding policy.

Trip February 10th, 2012 09:19 AM

The Crown, sits alone in port, getting scrub a dub dubbed...Maybe this next cruise will be a healthy one....we can only hope.

Getting to the aiport, or home, when leaving the ship with this virus, without the comfort of having restrooms close by, must be a valium moment;(

felix_the_cat February 10th, 2012 11:11 AM

It's probably not just the scrubbing that's going to clean the Crown. It's having no passengers or sick people on her for a couple of days. If it starts up again next week then you can be almost sure it was brought on board by passengers.

Hmmmm - how about a couple of hand washing sinks outside all eating venues?????

Sistersolo February 10th, 2012 03:56 PM

On my last two HAL cruises, they actually did have handwashing stations at the entry to the Lido buffet. They were mechanized thnigs, kinda felt like a carwash for your hands.

Warum February 10th, 2012 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix_the_cat (Post 1414032)
I understand the Crown has turned around and will be returning to FLL arriving on the morning of the 9th. Apparently there are so many crew members ill coupled with the number of passengers, it is not safe to continue the cruise.

I would think the islands don't want these people bringing noro on their island either.

I also understand Princess will be refunding all cruises fares.

I have found there are so many people who do not wash their hands it's actually mind boggling.

With Princess having so many b2b I would say there are some who get off but get right back on with the bug. Also, people do not want to lose their cruise/money by admitting they aren't feeling well when they board the ship so they just share.............

Princess/CCL Corp is being hit again. This event has been on CTV - Toronto. When they reported the noro event they immediately stated Princess is part of Carnival Corp and the Concordia.

A very bad year for cruising indeed.

yesterdays news reported another Princess ship (the second within a week) is returning early as well due to Noro on board with hundreds 3of sick passensders and crew,

felix_the_cat February 11th, 2012 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warum (Post 1414722)
yesterdays news reported another Princess ship (the second within a week) is returning early as well due to Noro on board with hundreds 3of sick passensders and crew,


Oh my - Is it the Ruby? it was a sick ship last week.

2katz3fsh February 11th, 2012 02:26 PM

I came off the Crown last week (week of the 400+ sickies which, I am grateful to report, we were not part of!) and there were hand dispensers located right outside of the "gated" entrance to the Horizon court. We saw many pass them without using them (no wonder why they got sick, DUH!). There is one cruise line, in particular, and if I recall it may be RCL (or HAL) wherein there is a staff member outside the Lido standing there with a plastic bag of Purell which she/he personally squirts into your hands before you gain entry. Perhaps this should be instituted in all ships as at least there is someone there to monitor the situation. I am not saying that there may be a few stragglers who walk right on by, but it seemed to me that this staff member got the majority of eaters.
Is there really a answer to this? People will be people and they're gonna do what they're gonna do, come heck or high water (but preferably, not on a cruise ship).

Trip February 11th, 2012 03:16 PM

I agree that staff standing with the purifier, does tend to make all who enter, put out their hands...It certainly intimidates most into accepting.

For a couple of days now they have shown the Crown, with interviiews form passengers on tv...Have they been up to Yale yet to interview the students? They have had a break out as well.

felix_the_cat February 11th, 2012 08:27 PM

RCL has someone at the door to both the dining room and Windjammer - at least they have had everyone I've been on.

As for the press - they are interested in news and the fact that Carnival Corp. is having such an awful being to 2012 is news. Princess cruisers may not like it but there it is - they have reported the news - Crown is back in port 2 days early because it's a sick ship. The fact that Princess refunded everyone's cruise and all the rest they have done isn't as important to the press as the fact it came back early a sick ship.

You do realize it willl have been a passenger who had tipped them off.

Phil&Liz February 11th, 2012 09:23 PM

Here is an in depth medical article on the subject.

Medscape: Medscape Access


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