Rick - as far as comments about being concerned about an incident like this whether one is gay or not is ridiculous.
I for one do not care about sexual orientation, religion, gender , color size, age...if someone is behaving like these attackers did - I AS A HUMAN BEING FEEL ITS MY OBLIGATION TO STEP IN.
When I was in HS I remember a girl that was a bully, & mean - one day after school she attacked another girl in the hall - the victim was a lovely girl that was singled out simply because of her religion. She too was on the floor in a fetal position taking kicks to her body. I just ran over pulled the attacker off - IT SICKENED ME THEN & THIS INCIDENT WITH STEVE SIKENED ME AGAIN.
I am not a natural protester but I do not put up with second class treatment from or towards anyone for any reason.. It seems some peole that have never experienced this type of incident are much more subdued in their emotions. Unfortunately those that have been attacked - verbally or - are more sensitive.
I think that evryone wants a better world - RCCL has policiies that ensure liability will not be a prooblem for RCCL. Its too bad they don't policies that also insure all onboard their vessels are also protected against these incidennts - no matter who is victimized.
It'll be interesting to see if any changes occur in RCI's security policy. I find it hard to believe a mega-corporation's legal department hasn't already advised the operations department on how to respond to bar room fights.
Is this event treated differently if the altercation is between "Oklahoma redneck" and "trailer trash" (hate names already applied in this thread) versus gay couple than it would be if it's Lutheran versus Methodist? Should the corrective action differ? What if the bar room fight involved black people versus white people? Should the security policies be different for this? I think not.
For anybody out there who is employed by a major corporation you know they have their security policies well established and documented and employees are well trained, because, as someone earlier posted, they do operate in a tight legal cocoon. And this is the way the owners (stockholders) of the corporation want it. To operate in a legal mine field would be ridiculously unreasonable.
Sorry, there are too many unanswered questions in my mind to be a party to a campaign against this company. Reading the posts of one side of the story on an internet message board is not enough to drive me away from RCI.
Re: Re: A warning to all RCI/Celebrity cruisers!!!
Again, I appreciate the feedback from those who have expressed concern for me and who have provided meaningful advice. Things for me have improved greatly physically / medically, now is just the arduous technical future of this case.
I am baffled how the terms "bar room fight", "bar brawl", and the like are still being used in this case. Any of the very large number of direct witnesses would correct this verbage. It certainly did not feel like I was involved in any type of "brawl" when I was being kicked in the head on the lounge floor. I am sure that witnesses can also attest that self defense would have done me very much good the way that I was attacked.
I am trying to keep emotion aside from peoples' opinions but some things don't have much leeway here. You'll notice that I'm not anonymously posting here so I am standing by my word.
Steve you could of grabed the heel 180 degree twist drop the B*** and took her out. Boy friend grabed a glass and knoked em out too on the way. Sweep kick the rest till you buds helped ya out. I wish I was their to help ya.
As a regular poster over on that "other" board, I've been lurking here and reading some of the comments with some degree of shock. While I certainly agree that there are two sides to every story and most of us weren't there to witness this horrific event, I also feel there have been enough common facts presented to give me a fairly good idea of what happened that night on Monarch of the Seas.
A hate crime occurred pure and simple. For those of you who don't understand what a hate crime is, this is an example. Someone is singled out and usually beaten, sometimes murdered, for being perceived as different and someone to be hated. Whether it is because of sex, religion or sexual orientation. This is it. I've been there and I've seen others victimized. For those of you who think it trivial, you should perhaps live a day in another’s shoes.
That being said, those who indicate that RCI had no control over this being a hate crime are correct (and who are you that keep mentioning RCCL - that company doesn't exist anymore), except for the fact that they probably market to questionable populations. But in any case, they could not control the fact that this altercation was a hate crime any more than they could control the altercation itself.
What RCI has done, however, is violate their own policy regarding violence amongst passengers on board their ships. They have a stated policy which says that those involved in altercations will be sequestered. In this case - if they were concerned with showing no prejudice, RCI would have sequestered at the least the attackers, at the most, both parties. There were witnesses who could have supported their decision to do so. RCI indicated in conversation with the victims that had there been a port day between the altercation and disembarkation, the attackers would have been put off the ship. If the situation were that serious, it seems to be enough there to sequester the attackers during the sea day.
So, why were they not? We can all sit here and say we've not heard both sides of the story and we can't make that judgment - and maybe that's something wrong with us. Rather than sitting back and pondering, we should be putting a voice to our feelings and asking for explanations and facts. It seems many on this board have a "well I wasn't there so I'll disregard it" attitude.
But back to the question - as someone who has been attacked out of hate, I have to ask myself were the attackers not sequestered because they were shouting epithets that didn't seem serious to RCI's security. Maybe after one attack - but how about after the second attack? Passengers were physically injured and required medical attention - the attackers did not. There's no excuse for RCI not handling them in accordance with their own guidelines.
As a passenger who is gay, I would strongly suggest that RCI's lack of action in keeping these attackers under wraps threatens my safety on future cruises – I am unfortunately a target of hate crimes and I would expect that RCI would be able to address these situations as well as any others that come along. The cruise line has demonstrated that they cannot do so. While it may not be much different on any other cruise line, RCI has proven they cannot control these types of situations and cannot protect my safety. Boycott them? You bet I will.
I posted the bar room fight phrase because I am trying to get across to people who want to bash RCI what the RCI personnel must've been presented with. Again, does it matter legally to RCI if the altercation involved gay, yellow, Asian, nudist, German, Baptist, albino, Floridian or Mensa people? Of course NOT!!!
They were presented with an altercation, fight, attack (call it what you want) in the lounge between some people. It should not matter at all if the people were gay or not, their policies should have been followed regardless. And maybe they were, I'm not judging because I don't know.
Re: Re: A warning to all RCI/Celebrity cruisers!!!
You're right Chuck. I think better enforcement of all the rules will minimize disgruntled passengers.
If everybody knows they will not be allowed to disembark until their color is called, for instance, you will not have people getting upset at being held up by people with the wrong color disembarking. That's one of the rules that are not enforced.
EH GADS - just consider what could have happened if one of those poor people who were attacked had broken a bottle or had taken a knife & decided to retaliate the next day when they spotted their attackers wandering around and one can't blame them - U have the right to defend yourself don't u and wouldn't u considering u had already taken a beating and wld expect the same again?? Horrible to contemplate right - so perhaps RCI (and other cruiselines if it applies) had better reconsider its 'no lock up' policy for attackers, abusers etc. (witnessed by many - by the way - so no mistake as to whom they were) - its their 'duty' to protect pax. Seems they were more interested in protecting their reputation..Makes one reconsider personal safety onboard seeing how this was dealt with by RCI...and please notice I have not once mentioned gay or straight , black, white, male, female - it's an ASSAULT - pure & simple and can be dealt with the same way - correct? Let's have more tolerance & safer cruisin'!!
Re: Re: A warning to all RCI/Celebrity cruisers!!!
I am new to reading these boards and was fascinated to read this thread. Actually, reading all of the posts at one time and without the heat of the battle, I began to wonder about why the accusations, wether warranted or not , were only directed towards the alleged perpetrators and RCCL. According to the posts, there were are large number of witnesses to these victims being pummeled and stomped. Yet, no where in the thread did anyone question the witnesses' failures. How could all of these people, some who were apparently friends of the victims, stand by while this is being done. When were these witnesses going to step in? Assume that RCCL security was completely negligent and did nothing (and I dont know that to be true) - does that mean everyone else should just let this happen.
I started to wonder about the type of people who would standby while someone is being assaulted in the manner described. I understand the danger you can place yourself in but at some point dont we have a moral obligation to step-in? Just something to think about.
Re: Re: Re: A warning to all RCI/Celebrity cruisers!!!
I am in moralagreement but having once witnessed such an altercation, although not on a cruiseship, I realize just how fast it can happen and how little time u have to react before it can be over or security arrives. Besides, I remember afterwards that we were commended for not intervening since the perpertrator had a knife and could have killed anyone interfering - your own safety has to take centre stage...Luckily the knife wasn't used and the victim recovered quickly. The security said if anyone had tried to 'break it up' it might have further enraged the perp. and he may have turned even more violent . So few know how to deal with this situation. U have seconds to make a decision. Only way, I was told later by a friend in law enforcement ,wld be to hit the perp.very hard on the head (pref side of) & pref. from behind or dump hot liquid on them to start and then make sure whatever way necessary that he/she stays down but not to even attempt this unless almost positive of the final result. Make a mistake and u become a victim too.. Lets hope none of us ever has to do it!!!
Sorry to hear about that but somehow it doesn't surprise me....I too was dissappointed in the way RCI handled quite a few things. Alot of the passengers were rude.....the children were not as supervised as they were on other cruise ships I've been on. Their parents were just plain inconsiderate of other people........ I watched young kids.......(eighteen), walk around with beer in their hands.........No attention was paid to the adult only areas. There was just too much rowdyness goin on so.......I can see where the attacks could have happened.