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  #1 (permalink)  
Old August 3rd, 2005, 07:57 AM
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Default Where else do you think the ship could go?

For those of you who keep posting about Voyager's failure to head to Bermuda last week and keep saying things like "comparable stops should have been offered" and "I should have had a say in where I was taken". This thread is not meant to debate the merits of the decision not to go to Bermuda or the compensation you may or may not receive.
Simply put. Once Bermuda was not an option (and believe me , for that ship in the existing circumstances on Sunday it was not) Where else do you think you should have gone besdes New England and Canada? What other options do you think RCCL had?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 08:30 AM
Glenn Comunale
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

RE: Poppa Bill, Could the ship have sailed down the east coast and ended up say in Charleston or savannah Ga. These are two beautiful towns of course I don't know if the ship could have leagally done this at least it would have taken care of one complaint about the temps. Just a thought. -Glenn
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

No it could not. Foriegn flagged ships MUST make one port call outside the US. A ship cannot sail to only US ports.
Secondly, you can't simply sail a ship down along the coast of the US due to treacherous waters along our southern coasts. You need to go out to sea. That is where the storm was. Coming out of the Bahamas and out to sea towards Bermuda.
So again I'll ask. where else do you think the ship could have gone?
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 09:12 AM
cpaige
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Why couldnt the boat just stayed at sea. All people wanted was warm weather.
Anyway - the storm re routed to Canada so we got the aftermath anyway.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pb.../apn/507280639

why not Flordida?
I did not want to head into the storm and i understand we could not go to Bermuda - but we wanted soemwhere SOUTH not NORTH

They made a wrong decision

If you were on the boat you would have been unhappy as well
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 12:09 PM
my $.02
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

And if they did sail to Bermuda and did get caught in the storm, what would have been said then?

hummm, I wonder.......
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

The ship CANNOT sail from a US port and simply stop at only US ports. This is part of a very antiquated law, but it is law nonetheless. Therefore Florida was out of the question as a destination. Bermuda was not available as an option. The storm was in the way and at the time of sailing scheduled to hit Bermuda on your date of arrival. In addition, previous posts have already indicated that the Bermuda port authorities told Voyager not to come.
I ask again, where else could this ship have gone?
Stick to the question. By doing that , and reading the answers you will begin to realize there was no alternative.
Unhappy. Certainly you were. But , where else could they go?
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 12:58 PM
lrov
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Default Re: Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

what about the Bahama's ?
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 01:16 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Uh oh, Tropical Storm Harvey is headed towards Bermuda. Everyone start calling your lawyers as I'm sure there will be more complaints about the poor service received on Royal Caribbean Cruises headed out in the coming days!

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize what would happen if you sail towards a tropical storm or hurricane people!! ROUGH SEAS!! Read the fine print before you sail, otherwise, try a different destination. If you want to see Charleston or Savannah, fly or drive there. The travel industry has no control over Mother Nature, as evidenced in the unfortunate crash of the Air France flight yesterday at the Toronto Airport. The air traffic controllers/pilots took a chance of flying through a lightning storm and the outcome was near tragic, same situation if Cruise Captains take a chance on a hurricane or tropical storm in rough seas!

To get to the Bahamas, they would have had to make their way through trecherous waters near Bermuda, and I'm sure there would be people complaining about the weather and having to stay inside. Take life as it comes people, don't dwell on EVERYTHING! Too many people are sue happy nowadays!

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Old August 3rd, 2005, 01:22 PM
kellie
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Hey Papabill check this out:
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pb.../apn/507280639

Read that article, you will see we wound up right in the storm that we were trying to avoid. I know it's easy for all of you who were not on this ship to judge, but do you honestly think all of us on this cruise are only mad because we didn't make it to Bermuda? Alot of hostility on this ship could have been avoided by a simple gesture on Royal Caribbeans part. A sea pass credit of at least $100.00 would have covered the clothes people had to buy, $45.20 come on.

I don't care what anyone says I know I paid 799.00 last summer for a balcony room on Carnivals Victory to Nova Scotia. I know it's not the same ship, but if I wanted to go to Canada thats what I would have booked. I paid 1499.00 for this trip.

I know they can't control the weather I have been cruising for years, but I feel I would have rather they had just stayed out to sea, where the sun was shining, then take me someplace I wasn't prepared to go. I have always cruised with Celebrity in tha past, they once changed my port from NY to PA and we received on board credit and a furure cruise discount. Royal gives us free drinks fro 1 hour, doesn't anounce it, and it was 3 of their choices(pina colada, bloody mary, and strawberry daquerie). Sure we wanted frozen drinks.

Now I want you all to realize we could not utilize all this ship had to offer. We could not go outside. It was a constant cold wet misty fog, and very windy. So those of you who say you pay for the ship not the trip, YOUR RIGHT! so give me back half my money.

If you were not on this cruise you have no business calling us anything. YOU WERE NOT THERE. They have no class as a company. Celebrity may cost a little more but they are worth every dime. I again ask why were we the only ship who did not go to Bermuda? I spoke to Celebrity they arrived 3 hours late. I would rather have had 1 sunny day where I was supposed to go, then no vacation at all.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 01:26 PM
Glenn Comunale
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

RE:Irov- I was on the Norweign Dawn last month and Nassau was cancelled because of engine problems which affected the ships speed. The decision was made to return to N.Y.C. while we were in the Bahamas. It took sixty hours to get back to N.Y. I really don"t think Nassau/Freeport was a realistic option on a five day cruise. At least 1000 miles each way,at 20 knots[about23MPH] do the math, warm weather yes port time little or none,and thats if they were allowed in there.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Stick to the topic. Where do you think this ship could go? You may have experienced the leftovers from the storm. You did not sail in open waters during a tropical storm. You were not (potentially) docked in an exposed harbor during a tropical storm.
I keep asking and still have not heard a viable answer. Where do you think the ship could go.
To those who say the Bahamas, you need to look at a map. To get to the Bahamas
(which is where this storm first spun up to tropical force) from NJ you would have sailed directly at the storm. A big ship cannot hug the coastline of NC SC Ga and Fl
during a storm, nor can it sail in the Bahamas. They need to go to open water to stay safe . Why do you think there are so many ship wrecks in those areas?
I will keep asking the question (again not debating the merits here of "claims") Where could this ship go (except to where it went).
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 07:42 PM
kellie
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Default Re: Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Here's a ? Papabill Why do YOU care so much? Where you on this ship? I guess not because then you would know the facts.
You just said we could have stayed out to sea, Thats all we've been saying for days. Why don't you go and look up the weather in Bermuda For the 26Th and 27th, I did, it was 85 partly cloudy both days, hardly a tropical storm.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 08:53 PM
Ron Ron is offline
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

PapaBill, you are so very right in what you say but alas, you won't make a dent in the minds of the chronic complainers just as all the people saying how bad RCCL is won't make a dent in RCCL's ability to fill their ships. Most of us know there was really no alternative for RCCL but to do as they did. Unfortunately, there are a few that won't understand no matter what logic and reasoning one uses. And too, you have to understand that there are a lot of people that can't find Bermuda and / or the Bahamas on the map to begin with.
Everytime a ship is diverted or a trip canceled, it's the same ol' same o.
A new storm is now fairly close to Bermuda so we can wait and see just what gripes it blows up.

Ok, fire away. Been shot at a lot before.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

kellie, "it says the weather was 85 partly cloudy both days, hardly a tropical storm" BUT how was the weather to get there...bad!!!! that's why the Bermuda Port Authorities said not to come...I have lived through many hurricanes and it can be nice right before and right afterwards BUT they are no fun to be in! I have also been on 2 cruises around hurricanes with very very rough seas and many many sick passengers. I know many more people would be yelling about that if that were this case. You were kept safe and sound...cold but safe.

Sorry for your unexpected diverted trip. I know this works...I would write a very nice note explaining how unhappy you are with the cost difference in cruises and additional $ spent on warm clothes. Then tell them how nice it would be if they compensated you additional ship board credit and a % off your next trip and see what happens. Sometimes, being nice gets more accomplished. Good luck to you and everyone.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

The weather might have been nice in Bermuda, but getting there would have been a different story. Going anywhere but north would have put you right in the path of the storm, so out to sea was not an option either, unless you went north and stayed at sea. Would you rather have had that then no port at all. It would have been just as cold, and then you are stuck on the ship. These are the chances you take when cruising, and if you don't like it, don't sail during hurricane season. Simple as that.

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Old August 4th, 2005, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

The weather turned out to be nice in Bermda later in the week because Franklin took a 90 degree turn to the north about 100 miles from Bermuda. On Satrday and Sunday when decisions needed to be made on the part of RCCL the storm was forecast as a dead on hit to the island Monady night into Wednesday morning. How do I know? I was in Bermuda , watching the local weather reports 5 times a day to determine our own status on staying and getting home late Tuesday afternoon.
It was not until Monday that the storm began to turn and even on Tuesday weather reports were predicting effects of the storm through later in the week. By the way, when it did turn it turned directly north. This would have been directly into Voyagers approaching path. On Tuesday , although the weather was clear, there were high winds very high surf and small boat advisories were posted.
No I was not on this ship. I feel very badly for those of you who had a bad vacation.
Although I personally do not believe you have any compensation coming to you, I hope you get everything you all are asking for (and more).
I would seriously like to see those folks posting all kinds of comments focus on where they thought RCCL had as alternatives (given the information available to them at the time).
On Sunday the storm was headed east towards Bermuda, by Monday night and Tuesday it was headed due north. Does anyone think the executives at RCCL and the ship's captain knew that the storm was going to make a 90 degree turn? The forecasters in Bermuda certainly did not.
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Old August 4th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Ling Ling
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Kellie:

You need to relax. Life is too short. Have a cup of tea. \__/?

Now, breathe.

You went on a cruise. You ate the food, drank drinks, slept in your cabin. You didn't get to go where you wanted to. You felt you were treated horribly. This has happened to scores of cruisers. It is disappointing, but yes, you had a vacation of sorts, and that was all that RCI was supposed to do, given the contract that you freely signed before boarding.

I would suggest a nice letter to RCI. I think they dropped the PR ball here, but you also need to talk to your TA (you did have one, right?) and consult your travel insurnace policy (because of course, you purchased one, right?) to see what your rights are, and then follow up.

Happy future sailings on whatever line you choose.
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Old August 4th, 2005, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Great question Papa Bill!!!

And for the statement: "Why couldn't the boat just stayed at sea. All the people wanted was warm weather." NOT! You can't know that's all the other passengers wanted. There would still be masses of people complaining that they didn't get to a port. They would be bored just on the ship day after day at sea...with nothing to do but gamble and shop on board. Why...they could have done that on land! They paid to go to a port!

Alaska can be unexpectedly cold, windy and wet etc. and when we cruised on the Radience we were not able to use ALL the ships top deck equipment (rock climbing wall, golf and basketball court, jogging track, outdoor pool and more!) because of the wet, windy weather. Should we sue to get 1/2 our money back? After all when we booked this cruise these facilities were highlighted as being available, and the weather made them impossible to use for the whole cruise.

The kids could not go outside, because of the very cold weather...they were bored!!! Didn't matter that we would be at a port...while at sea..these kids were bored...and there were programs for them...but they were still bored! And they acted out. Should the parents sue. The parents on Voyager compained that their kids were bored because there was nothing to do...while, when you sail to Alaska and the weather turns cold, etc. the kids will be bored too.

I think that it's mostly attitude...the attitude of the parents and passengers. The 'Don't confuse me with the facts" attitude.

I think Papa Bill has hit the nail on the head AGAIN!

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Old August 6th, 2005, 07:34 PM
kellie
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Default Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Yes I did purchase travel insurance, no I did not have a travel agent I booked right through Royal. Do you think Royal told me my Insurance would only cover if they cancelled the trip not if the itinerary changed? No they did not. I have since learned that their are all different tiers of insurance, they of course only sell the one that best suits them in this situation. I know I should have read that contract too!!
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Old August 7th, 2005, 04:35 PM
Glenn Comunale
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Sandra W- Just one question.Do you think because of the cicumstances all around with this unfortunate cruise on the VOS that these people don't deserve some extra refund above the $45.20 port charge. You say in your post that your cruise to Alaska had less that great weather and you could't use all the outside things the ship had to offer.Well you booked a cruise to Alaska and you got one to Alaska. If the weather was poor that week no one could blame the cruise line could and say how about a credit. This here seems a lot different. Org.cruise cancelled, new ports in different climate zone passengers not prepared either way,bad weather up in Canada, rough seas,passengers experence very thing that RCL hopes to avoid. Read the fine print you say OK the fine print protects the company not the passengers.I still dont understand if I can get $200 back for a missed port why RCL won't do more for these people considering all that happened to them.Am I they only cruiser who feels this way these people were screwed, RCL should realize that and give them a break.At the risk of beating a dead horse I stand on that. Take care-Glenn
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Old August 7th, 2005, 05:45 PM
hcat
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

But on the PR front...the ship could have had a free extra cocktail party--maybe with a Bermuda Breezes theme & maybe more folks might have been happier. When our Enchantment trip had to change course & port order due to a health emergency, the staff & Captain were on the PA & did all possible to make it smoother (like re-booking excursions, reprinting the newsletter & keeping guests fully posted) & in the end there were fewer unhappy campers! It can make a big difference....
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Old August 8th, 2005, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Glen:

Should have, could have,....but RCCI didn't.

They state clearly in their Policies and guild-lines that they won't...so why do you think they will? Because it happen to YOU?

Another words...it's ok to have these policies and guide-lines and to warn you in WRITING that if this and that happens...they RCCI will do this or that.

BUT in reality..if the worst does happen, you do not want RCCI to stand by their own policies. These passengers want RCCI to make an exception in THEIR CASE, cause it happen to them.

Of course the policies are written in favor of RCCI...they are running a business for profit! RCCI is not part or our family nor our they are friends...You may have think that brand loyalty conversly means customer loyalty...WRONG! They don't know their customers personally and don't want too. They have 1000's of passengers every year...and every year they have multitudes of problems with disgruntled passengers, some for good reasons and others for nothing. They deal with this 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Yes...with this experience they should be better at costumer service...but they are not...that's business. If we don't like the company...chose another. We have this choice. But to think that this mega shipping business RCCI is going to change their written policy for some unhappy passengers...is not based in reality.

Not every bad thing that happens...not every turn of fate....not every mishap needs to be compensated for. Especially when the clients/passengers were warned...and knew or should have known what could happen...

People need to be reasonable and take responsibility for their actions or non-action. This is reminds me of the MacDonald incident. You order hot coffee .... you drink and drive it...get burned, then sue because you got burned!

I'm NOT a RCCI fan... I only sail with them because of a specific itinerary...I do prefer Celebrity because of the service...but really guys...I can't see the point of being so bitter when the responsibility of making a poor choice rest with the passenger.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2005, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

I was looking to stay away from the "arguements" in this thread since there are at least three others to address those arguements in . I am simply looking to find out , from those people who have stated they should have gotten something comparable to Bemuda "where else do you think this ship should have gone"?
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Old August 8th, 2005, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

we should have at least been given the option to reschedule
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Old August 8th, 2005, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

The law that covered this situation is the Jones-Shafroth Act ov 3/2/17. Below is a paragraph which was pasted from a short article about it. The POA has worked it's way around this, I believe by using United States employees.



These ships cannot pick up a passenger in one U.S. port and drop off the passenger in another U.S. port. However, after arriving from Canada or Mexico, they may tour the islands and drop off passengers in Hawaii. They may then pick up new passengers, tour the islands, and return to Canada or Mexico. As a consequence, these "foreign" cruise ships made approximately over 300 calls in Hawaii ports during 2002.
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Old August 8th, 2005, 08:20 PM
Sharon Shigley
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Default Re: Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Obviously, there was no place else they could have gone unless we were only in a port for a couple of hours. I personally would have preferred that option because at least we would have had a couple of days of warm weather to enjoy the ship. I think they should have cancelled the trip or offered us a huge credit towards a future cruise.
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Old August 8th, 2005, 08:40 PM
Glenn Comunale
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Ok Pappa Bill you win! they could n't go leagally anywhere or at least didn't want to. To sum up . Unique situation with many different disapointments requires creative solution .RCL response- Circle the wagons boys and get out that good old fine print,works every time! P.S. I wasn't on the boat I guess if it was me I would have like to see a different outcome.-Glenn
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Old August 9th, 2005, 07:22 AM
Frank Schatz
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Actually there was an option to go to the Bahamas. Royal Caribbean looked at that option and decided against it because passengers might be upset that they only would have a few hours off the ship in port! Also, I've spoken with one of the brides that was supposed to get married in Bermuda. She works for NBC and she spoke to their meteorologists. They said that the Canada itinerary was one of the worst alternatives that RCI could have chosen as New Finland and Nova Scotia were on the projected path of the storm so they knowingly sent the ship into harms way contrary to their story!
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old August 9th, 2005, 09:45 AM
Frank Schatz
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Default Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Also, I forgot to mention that people were also ticked off at RCI for gouging prices on board. The shops on board were selling sweat shirts for $30 when the ship left NJ. When the ship arrived in St. John with cold temps, the price for the SAME sweatshirts went to $60-$65!! Talk about adding insulkt to injury.
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Old August 9th, 2005, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Re: Where else do you think the ship could go?

Frank, actually the ship could not go to the Bahamas without sailing directly into the path of the storm. This storm came from the Bahamas. That was never an alternative for you. In addition, it was not until Monday that the storm turned and headed towards New England and Canada. Saturday and Sundays predicted track took the storm directly over Bermuda from Monday night to Wednesday morning and then west out to sea, no where near where RCCL took you. It took a 90 degree turn of the storm on Monday, long after decisions were made, to put the storm in your path again.
Even if they were able to skirt east of the storm a ship the size of Voyager cannot get caught between a tropical storm and the southern coast of the U.S. from Va down to Ga.
Sorry, but there was no choice of destination other than where you went.
I still hope you get what you are asking for.
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