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View Poll Results: Should they have been banned?
Yes, for sure! 100 91.74%
No, they should be allowed to keep being whiners to mooch discounts 9 8.26%
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old May 21st, 2008, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoozeman
Now that is funny!!

Is he really talking to them or are all rednecks with mullets illiterate
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Old May 21st, 2008, 10:53 AM
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Without addressing this specific case, I was swimming on an "RCI" ship where the husband said his wife was up at "Guest Relations" complaining on the first day. He said 'she always gets us an upgrade or onboard credit even though there's nothing really wrong.' The shame is that there are many legitimate complaints...oops "concerns" that get overshadowed by these types.
  #33 (permalink)  
Old May 21st, 2008, 12:53 PM
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We are in the service industry, and there are people who are constant complainers and very distruptive. Have I ever asked them to go away?
You bet I have. There are those who have a mission, it seems, to spread their unhappiness to as many people as possible. Life is too short.
  #34 (permalink)  
Old May 21st, 2008, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoozeman
Now that is funny!!

Is he really talking to them or are all rednecks with mullets illiterate
You got it. I'm a big fan of Fark.com (a site with real news, but with reader suggested headlines) and the photo has become a fark cliche. There is a thread about this subject over on their site. The photo just happen to fit perfectly and was so funny I had to share.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 10:47 PM
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I love fark.com!
  #36 (permalink)  
Old May 22nd, 2008, 07:01 AM
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RCCL Security making sure Fiesty Mrs. M does not get onboard!!


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  #37 (permalink)  
Old May 22nd, 2008, 09:05 AM
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I am going to disagree with most folks and say they could of ignored them and not banned them.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecruisequeen
RCCL Security making sure Fiesty Mrs. M does not get onboard!!


Good one!!!!!!!!!!!!

They are keeping a good eye out!
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old May 22nd, 2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecruisequeen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave
I thought the complaint about her husband being locked outside on the balcony for three hours was pretty funny. He probably did it on purpose to get away from her constant nagging
being locked out on the balcony away from a nagging wife is not a bad idea!

I too had a plumbing problem on the Freedom (was the ships 2nd voyage) I called the desk at 2am the guy came to the cabin about half hour later was in the cabin for about 20 minutes fixed the problem and I gave him a $20. tip as I felt bad that he had to fix the problem at 2:30AM.
He was surprised that i was giving him a tip and thanked me a million times.
Hey that was nice. Do you know that those maintenance guys rarely get tips and you always catch them off guard? On one of my cruises I saw a crew of 4 or 5 guys sanding and redoing some wood railings in the Windjammer - at 3am in the morning (just don't ask me what I was doing up at 3am ).

They did such a great job that I just walked over to them and thanked them for keeping the ship in such good shape. So I just gave each of them $5. I literally had to fight them. They initially wouldn't take it.

Fortunately one of their supervisors walked by and I told him to to tell them to take the darn money. LMAO.

He told me that it is so rare that maintenance people get tips that they just don't know how they should react when they do.

Finally they took the money with a big grin and we all were happy.
  #40 (permalink)  
Old May 22nd, 2008, 03:02 PM
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Well, lets not forget that they didn't just do it with cruise lines.

What we know so far is that the Morons..uhum..Morans are professional scammers. They did it with Verizon, with Saturn, with Hunday, with Delta...just to name a few.

They are well known around the net.

What really bothers me though is what is Tripso.com's interest in it?
What's there relationship with the Moran's?
What is the connection between the "other" forum, Trips.com and the Morans?

The ban happened in November and tripso.com just brought this story out (and MSNBC followed). Why?

Why did tripso.com totally mislead the readers by turning the statement from RCI's Sheehan
Quote:
“In a small number of cases we agreed and compensated them appropriately. In most cases, however, we disagreed. Having concluded that we are unable to meet the expectations of the Morans, we have told them that they would be best served by sailing with another company.”
in the very next paragraph totally around and indicated that the ban was based on a review in a forum?
Quote:
Nevertheless, to ban someone for posting their cruise experience on an Internet message board raises serious questions about the lengths the company is going to keep negative reviews from public consumption.
And why were so many posters on the "other" forum literally threatened to stay "on-topic"?
And three or four moderators being heavily involved in that thread?

And let's not forget that the Morans were banned under one user name in the "other" forum" yet were allowed to create a new user name (which in itself is a violation of the TOS). It was no secret that "theawsome1" (banned) and MaCop are one and the same poster.





  #41 (permalink)  
Old May 22nd, 2008, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FL_Cruiser64
Well, lets not forget that they didn't just do it with cruise lines.

What we know so far is that the Morons..uhum..Morans are professional scammers. They did it with Verizon, with Saturn, with Hunday, with Delta...just to name a few.

They are well known around the net.


Very interesting... where did you find this information
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old May 22nd, 2008, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL_Cruiser64
Well, lets not forget that they didn't just do it with cruise lines.

What we know so far is that the Morons..uhum..Morans are professional scammers. They did it with Verizon, with Saturn, with Hunday, with Delta...just to name a few.

They are well known around the net.


Very interesting... where did you find this information
When I am at home tomorrow I'll post the links. One was a car discussion board where the Morans complained about brakes etc and told people that she was complaining to the car dealer and what she got in return.

One user who obviously knew her kicked the thread back to the Saturn issue.

I found a cell phone thread in which she claimed that a complain to Verizon about an issue (I think it was how fast minutes used are being processed and shown on the net). She stated that Verizon was so "delighted" that they refunded her money.

Oh yeah, another search linked her to a Las Vegas vacation usenet group in which people complained that she harrassed them.

She is a professionel scammer.

But my issue is not really with her. The RCI stuff happened in November and I applaud their decision. My issue is with that tripso.com lady and the furious attempts of the moderators at the "other" board to quiet down certain people and how come that she was allowed to create a new user name despite being banned.

Why did tripso.com bring this up NOW?
Why did they slant the story making it look like RCI banned them because of some internet posting?

And why is that "other" site so protective of the Morans?
  #43 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:09 AM
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i couldn't resist a reply

consumers are free to post on these sites, write letters t,or make phone calls to get compensation, and usually do to get a reaction and a response from the company who "did them wrong"

companies respond to this (usually with compensation) to get bring back the consumer and prevent them from spreading these wrongdoings to others.

I completely understand R/C for banning them. Nothing was going to make them happy. Besides, why are you going to help someone who is just going to slap you in the face.
  #44 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave
These people complained their way to credits and discounts. Now they went too far and are banned for life from Royal Caribbean.
I think I ran into them on my recent cruise....or perhaps it was another moron (Moran {sic})!!!
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
I wonder what Paul Motter told RCI when they called him.
To be clear, in reference to what the Tripso article said about me; what I told RCI was that I cannot change a reader submitted cruise review - because I did not write it and I cannot put my words into another person's review. As I recall, however, the original author of the review (it was not Branda Moran) did contact about the review RCI had contacted me about, and he verified what RCI had said, that RCI had made good on his complaint and that he wanted me to amend his review (or take it down, I do not recall). I did as he asked.

As for the Morans - I do think there are people who complain too much to try to get something for nothing. Most people who have owned a service business have seen it. Sometimes it is so obvious it is laughable.

When it is so obvious, then I agree whole-heartedly that the company has the right to ban them.

However, I do have a problem with message boards that come down on people and insult them thoroughly just because they have a complaint.

I just talked to the author of the Tripso article, Anita Potter, and she has told me that the posters at the other cruise site have gone so far as to call Brenda Moran and tell her to jump off of a bridge. Apparently, Mrs Moran is very upset and unsettled. She has been getting email threats and hate-email for days now.

On our message boards, I always encourage people NOT to criticize people who criticize the cruise lines, especially first-time posters. You don't know what their experience is.

However, I personally have no patience for scammers who believe un-deserved complaining is just a way to get something for free. How is there any possible dignity in that?
  #46 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 05:38 PM
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I think when they posted their compensations, that was their down fall. I think they have ever right to post reviews and problems on these boards. But in posting the compensations given, the cruise line got angry because not every complaint is compensated the same way. There are too many variables in a complaint. Do I think they should be banned - not really. Just don't give them anything but an apology. Put their name on a "Problem passenger" list and keep it on record. Once they stop getting something for nothing, they'll move on to the next cruise line. Sharing their name with other cruise lines would be a good idea. In my company, the competition sometimes calls me with info about "problem" customers. (I work in collections). This helps me decide how to deal with some situations.
  #47 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoozeman
Snoozeman, you are to much!

You know I was on that cruise with BM, it was actually in Sept. There were lots of issues with the plumbing. She was one piece of work on the cruise. Since it was a members cruise the CL was for Suite Guests only and at night we used the old Viking Crown for our C&A get-togethers. Well, one day she stood outside the CL and walked in behind a guest just like she belonged. Unfortunately for her the Conceirge knew about her and kicked her out. Needless to say she was not pleased. That was only one incident.
  #48 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 06:30 PM
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Cruisequeen...

excellent points. I agree a list of "complainers" is a great idea. That way you never give into their scams and soon they move on to a different cruise line who is more "agreeable". No PR problems, no more complainers.

Also - yes, posting their compensation was their downfall. However, assuming they were NOT scammers then there is some satisfaction to having gotten a complaint resolved. They would just be bragging about how well they handled a problem.
  #49 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter

I just talked to the author of the Tripso article, Anita Potter, and she has told me that the posters at the other cruise site have gone so far as to call Brenda Moran and tell her to jump off of a bridge. Apparently, Mrs Moran is very upset and unsettled. She has been getting email threats and hate-email for days now.
Can I hook into this for a moment?

I have a huge issue with Tripso and that Anita Potter lady.

a) she has indicated in her story that the Morans where banned because of internet posting
Quote:
I contacted Michael Sheehan, Royal Caribbean’s associate vice president of corporate communications, to get the cruise line’s side of the story. Sheehan says since 2004, the Morans sailed six voyages with two of the company’s lines. “On all but one of those sailing the Morans felt there were a variety of service failures they experienced,” he said. “In a small number of cases we agreed and compensated them appropriately. In most cases, however, we disagreed. Having concluded that we are unable to meet the expectations of the Morans, we have told them that they would be best served by sailing with another company.”

Cruising the message boards

Royal Caribbean is certainly entitled to ban whomever from their ships. Nevertheless, to ban someone for posting their cruise experience on an Internet message board raises serious questions about the lengths the company is going to keep negative reviews from public consumption. When I asked Sheehan if Royal Caribbean has an official policy on asking negative posts to be removed from Internet forums, he denied there was a policy.
I highlited both important sentences. WHY did Anita Potter accuse Royal Caribbean that the Morans were banned because of an internet posting when in the paragraph before that she quotes Sheehan from RCI.

And I tell you what: this crap about people calling the Morans is garbage. They were banned, what is there to call? If the Morans claim that they were called I think that is a lie. Do we really believe professional scammers? And if Anita Potter made that up (which I hope not) then why?

Why did Anita Potter bring that article out NOW? Months after the fact....
Why is Anita Potter and the "other" forum so protective of professional scammers?

Initially I wanted to post the links here but
a) I am not home yet. My AC broke down a couple of days ago and I am expecting a new one tomorrow.
b) Most of the links were provided by the "other" forum. We know where that thread ended up. In the mills of deletion. That is the only thing Brenda Moran can complain about: that she was outed! If I post the links here this thread may disappear as well.

And if you talk to Mrs Potter again. Could you ask her why she is so protective of the Morans? She couldn't/didn't answer that question on her own site, maybe she can answer you that question.
  #50 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave

Very interesting... where did you find this information
Try reading some of these reviews........its not just RCCL they try to get something from.

http://www.viewpoints.com/Carnival-Cruise-Lines- Ecstasy--115042-review-51990

http://www.viewpoints.com/Northwest-Airlines-rev iew-c2a00

http://www.viewpoints.com/Sheraton-at-Cleveland- Hopkins-Airport-Cleveland-OH-review-7d7b0


These are from viewpoints.com where she is MacGyver
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PH8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave

Very interesting... where did you find this information
Try reading some of these reviews........its not just RCCL they try to get something from.

http://www.viewpoints.com/Carnival-Cruise-Lines- Ecstasy--115042-review-51990

http://www.viewpoints.com/Northwest-Airlines-rev iew-c2a00

http://www.viewpoints.com/Sheraton-at-Cleveland- Hopkins-Airport-Cleveland-OH-review-7d7b0


These are from viewpoints.com where she is MacGyver
Hey Parrot hun,
you know you going get this thread killed like the one on the "other" board. Facts get in the way of the Morans positive image-just ask some writers at some T****.com site.

EDIT: I was not aware of these links. Thanks.

Now I know why Mrs Potter is so 'in love' with Brenda Moran
Quote:
Anita Dunham Potter, a great travel writer, as become a great friend after reading my reviews both enjoyable & disasters. She cannot believe how major companies from cruiselines, airlines, even Amtrak has caused major disasters for people & feel nothing wrong. She is also a MSNBC travel umbusman with stories from folks who have had it with many companies.
http://www.viewpoints.com/Tripso-review-e36d3

The net is something fantastic...

My conclusion:
It was a targeted hit job from Mrs Moran and Mrs Potter (who also used her MSNB connection) to discredit RCI.
  #52 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:02 PM
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Anita told me the article originated because she was working on their case as an omsbudsman. They contacted her because the husband was locked on the balcony for three hours. It turned out that the door had slammed behind him, and he gave his keycard to a neighbor when they finally came out, but they went in and were unable to open the balcony door. It had become jammed.

When the engineers arrived, according to Moran, they were verbally abusive and blamed him for getting stuck.

Anita was writing this when Brenda told her they had subsequently been banned by RCI. The reason why the story came out "late" was because Anita rightfully contacted RCI to get their side of the story, and they did not get back to her for many weeks.

I am not sure I follow your logic about the Morans could not have been called (on the phone). Someone called their house and told her to jump off... It happens. I write a lot of things in public, it has happened to me, and I can tell you it is pretty scary when a total stranger calls you and wishes you bodily harm.

As far as "professional scammer" goes - do we really know that?

Anita has met the lady (which I will say most people on the Internet have not) and she says she appears to be sincere - not a scammer. Now, I realize most scammers are pretty good at changing their colors when needed, but I still just don't agree with people judging and condemning anyone without a trial. Anita says the woman comes off as being honest, and maybe she is. Anita has met her, have you? Maybe she is just a curmudgeon. That isn't a crime.

This is the Internet. There is supposed to be etiquette and protocol in online message boards. And even when one is unlikable or uninformed or even wrong, it doesn't give total strangers have the right to get involved in their personal life and contact them with, as I said, wishes for bodily harm.

I know for a fact Anita Potter would not make that, or anything else up. She is careful and ethical reporter.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:19 PM
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It seems that every once in awhile, someone gets to become the public's punching bag. Anita didn't know the Morans were "scam artists".

I think the question Anita is trying to bring up is this - why are so many posters in certain cruise message boards so adamantly ready to defend the cruise lines in every single case no matter what happens? The Morans had SOME legitimate complaints, but in some boards if you criticize a cruise line you'd better take cover.

If I have a legitimate complaint, I like to know I can post it someplace and get an honest response, not a condescending "obviously you don't know anything, you're worthless" attitude.

Getting back to the Morans - now that these same people have found what they are sure is a true cruise line victimizer - boy are they having a field day taking out their frustrations on her. Does it really make sense; child molesters may be living in your neighborhood, but people want Brenda Moran to die for being a "scam artist" for a few travel perks.
  #54 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
Anita told me the article originated because she was working on their case as an omsbudsman. They contacted her because the husband was locked on the balcony for three hours. It turned out that the door had slammed behind him, and he gave his keycard to a neighbor when they finally came out, but they went in and were unable to open the balcony door. It had become jammed.

When the engineers arrived, according to Moran, they were verbally abusive and blamed him for getting stuck.

Anita was writing this when Brenda told her they had subsequently been banned by RCI. The reason why the story came out "late" was because Anita rightfully contacted RCI to get their side of the story, and they did not get back to her for many weeks.

I am not sure I follow your logic about the Morans could not have been called (on the phone). Someone called their house and told her to jump off... It happens. I write a lot of things in public, it has happened to me, and I can tell you it is pretty scary when a total stranger calls you and wishes you bodily harm.

As far as "professional scammer" goes - do we really know that?

Anita has met the lady (which I will say most people on the Internet have not) and she says she appears to be sincere - not a scammer. Now, I realize most scammers are pretty good at changing their colors when needed, but I still just don't agree with people judging and condemning anyone without a trial. Anita says the woman comes off as being honest, and maybe she is. Anita has met her, have you? Maybe she is just a curmudgeon. That isn't a crime.

This is the Internet. There is supposed to be etiquette and protocol in online message boards. And even when one is unlikable or uninformed or even wrong, it doesn't give total strangers have the right to get involved in their personal life and contact them with, as I said, wishes for bodily harm.

I know for a fact Anita Potter would not make that, or anything else up. She is careful and ethical reporter.
Paul,

I know what you are talking about etiquette on the internet.

But my question is why Mrs Potter has blamed internet postings for this banned still remains unanswered.

And we are not talking about weeks but rather months.

I can only speculate based on the evidence. In my opinion it was an action which was a targeted one. And Mrs Potter, willingly or unwillingly, played a major role in it. The statement from Sheehan at RCI that the Morans were banned because obviously RCI can not live up to their expectations was immediately followed by a paragraph which puts blame to some internet postings. That was a writers attempt to steer the responsibility clearly away from the Morans.

Well, it backfired. People agreed with RCI for the true reasons, not the invented reason. And it caused people to research and post results, a lot of results.

Of course that thread dissappeared on the 'other' forum. And to mind comes a link about Brenda Moran in the late 90s/early 2000 in which she literally harassed a website publisher.

I followed that thread over there. There were no threats. Just agreement with RCI and of course a lot of evidence. Maybe Mrs Moran did not like the evidence posted.

The etiquette does not begin and end with favoritism (obviously Mrs Potter and Mrs Moran are friends) http://www.viewpoints.com/Tripso-review-e36d3.

It begins and ends with honest reporting. The report should have simply ended with Sheehan's statement.

Also, there were many people who got to know the Morans via Roll Calls. So Mrs Potter is not the only one who knows them. It is not up to me to weight the importance of relationships of the individuals with the Morans.

I just weight the one important relationship about an individual who had access to main stream media and could do harm to RCI's reputation.

I still like to know the answer to my question why Mrs Potter jumped from Sheehan's statement straight into speculation that internet postings are the reason for the ban and selling it as a fact.
  #55 (permalink)  
Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
It seems that every once in awhile, someone gets to become the public's punching bag. Anita didn't know the Morans were "scam artists".

I think the question Anita is trying to bring up is this - why are so many posters in certain cruise message boards so adamantly ready to defend the cruise lines in every single case no matter what happens? The Morans had SOME legitimate complaints, but in some boards if you criticize a cruise line you'd better take cover.

If I have a legitimate complaint, I like to know I can post it someplace and get an honest response, not a condescending "obviously you don't know anything, you're worthless" attitude.

Getting back to the Morans - now that these same people have found what they are sure is a true cruise line victimizer - boy are they having a field day taking out their frustrations on her. Does it really make sense; child molesters may be living in your neighborhood, but people want Brenda Moran to die for being a "scam artist" for a few travel perks.
Paul,
funny though but even cruisers from other cruise lines agreed with RCI. I would run to the defense of Carnival in a similar instance just as well and I really do not like Carnival. So it is not an issue about the cruise line and if one favors that particular cruise line but rather cruisers from an entire industry (cruising industry) getting together and trying to defend the cruise industry against unjust attacks.

A lot of people with valid complaints are being pushed into the same bracket but it is a result of the action of those who abused the system (like the Morans). And there are plenty out there. If people like the Morans can continue to do their 'business' without harm those with valid complaints will have a much harder time receiving resolutions for their problems. Essentially it affects all of us.

Often complaints arise by just not reading information properly. There was a thread on this board not too long ago about an excursion. Yet when you read the info about the excursion everything the poster complained about was listed and warned about. Who are we faulting? It is easy to say "hey xxx-cruise line, give me my money back". But isn't it our responsibility to read basic information?

Complaints and claims like that have the backlash that cruisers with real complaints are getting the short end of the stick.

In regards to the die-comment: if that comes from the mouth of Brenda Moran I would question that. I can not imagine anybody asking them to die. Why? They are banned, months ago. The issue is resolved. I can see though that Brenda Moran just elevates some critical e-mail (if she even got one) in an attempt to make a point. She is a master of that - as we all know by now.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:57 PM
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Yes, I am talking about the over-reaction some people seem to be having to the fact that she apparently was a scammer. Thank you for aknowleging my point.

I know for a fact that Anita told me a long time ago she was still waiting for the response from RCI. It may have been months. It is simple a answer - when did M Sheehan reply to her about Brenda Moran? I don't know, but I am sure it was recently, because I asked her just today why the delay in the story and she said she was waiting for a reply from RCI.

As far as tying it in to message boards, the question is "do the cruise lines attempt to manage what is said about them in online message boards?"
I think Anita made it clear in her article that there appears to be evidence of cases where they have done so.

She brought up my case where I was contacted by a cruise line to change a reader review.

My personal question is this, "do the cruise lines have people they call on to post in message boards anonymously to spin what is said about them?"

I honestly don't know, because the cruise lines know that if I knew there were paid spokespeople trying to control opinion in our message boards I would ban them. The cruise lines say they have a policy of NOT allowing their employees to post in message boards, which I would agree with. If you want someone speaking out for you as an employee it has to be official (a company spokesperson). An underling posting as a cruise line employee could get the company in hot water...

But... I have to say that the number of people who will immediately jump on anyone who criticizes a cruise line, making them feel bad or stupid for saying anything negative, seems like more than a coincidence. It seems orchestrated. When you add that up to the documented cases where they tried to control what was said, it seems pretty obvious.

But we are not children either. We live in a world of lobbyists, political action committees, hatchet men, anonymous leakers and other machinations of the system. Everything in this business world is about image and marketing these days. Would it surprise you that a company would try to "spin" an online message board?

Why are you so intent on questioning this specific part of Anita's article?
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FL_Cruiser64

Hey Parrot hun,
you know you going get this thread killed like the one on the "other" board.
Hey--you were going to come back and post where you got your info on reviews,so I just beat you to it...........

Besides,it looks to me,like you just posted a link yourself.......whats the dif?

For the record Paul------SEVERAL of the people that posted their comments on Brenda have indeed met her.........they are not all just going by what they have read.......

I do think its terrible she is getting threats though.......that is not necessary..
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 09:16 PM
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I often take the "devil's advocate" position in these boards, which often causes me to be drawn in ways that are not what I actually believe, just for the record.

I completely agree with you, if Moran is a scammer, and the consensus is that she is now, then it is a bad thing for all people with legitimate complaints. However, what if she wasn't? Which is worse, having a chronic complainer trying to beat the system, or allowing a business to ignore your complaints with no resolution ("we have your money now, so too bad").

The fact that businesses do try hard to resolve complaints is a GOOD THING. But the fact that they could arbitrarily decide at any time that they just don't want someone as a customer anymore and tell them to "eff off" is a really bad thing if you think about it. There has to be ample justification.

It is like car manufacturers deciding it is cheaper to settle lawsuits rather than build better cars. It took congressonal acts to change that.

Now, I agree with RCI in this case, whole heartedly, because there is now ample evidence of this woman's history. Anita Potter did not know about that. I didn't either until this morning.

Still, leaving the Moran case aside, what bothers me is people's unbounded willingness to jump to conclusions and "convict" by public opinion. And it isn't the verdict that bothers me, it is the "punishment."

We had a case in this message board where a man came in, first post, and said "I just want you all to know the body of my brother-in-law washed up on the shore of an island today, he fell from a cruise ship three days ago and they abandoned the search."

Some of the people here reacted to him with unmitigated disdain. They called him names, etc. It turns out his story was true. All public evidence would lead you to think it was a scam or troll. No one has ever come in here and said that, and it is extremely rare that a body washes up on shore. It was pretty sad when the truth came out.

And so - my point is, no matter what, it isn't right for posters to turn into a lynch mob. Have some discretion and weigh the facts. Talk about it. But death threats are uncalled for.

And obviously, I do believe a death threat did occur, because it has happened to me as well.
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Old May 23rd, 2008, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
I think the question Anita is trying to bring up is this - why are so many posters in certain cruise message boards so adamantly ready to defend the cruise lines in every single case no matter what happens?
Seriously....there is absolutely NO instance where posters agreed with the complaint and did not defend the cruiseline? This journalist could find no instance?

Very hard to believe.

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Old May 23rd, 2008, 09:36 PM
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I also have to say that people like the Moran's are a really bad thing for message boards as well. I guess one reason I am even willing to take her side is because she didn't try to pull her act here in our boards.

We have had people try to intimidate cruise lines into submission here. I can think of a couple of cases where we had to ban people for constantly hijacking every new thread about one cruise line and turning it into their own complaint.

People with an agenda are usually easy to see through, usually. And I will tell you that if there is one thing that will get a journalist madder than anything, it is someone bu**shi**ing you about a really important topic.

Want to get on my bad side? Lie to me in an interview. And the higher up you are, the greater your credibility is supposed to be, then the more ticked off I will be when I catch you in your lie.

That is why I believe Anita Potter did not know this woman to be a scammer, because if she did know it, she never would have listened to her.

I have worked for a lot of magazines. etc. The bigger ones will put you through a week of fact-checking, asking for copies of your notes, etc.

Unfortunately, here on the web where the deadline is always "right now" you sometimes print things based on what someone whom you believe is honest tells you. And sometimes you find out later it was wrong. If you had more time, and a team of editors and fact-checkers, you wouldn't have made a mistake. As journalists we believe in the truth, and so we sometimes have a hard time catching on when people are lying to us.

I have become more hardened in the last year. And sometimes I meet journalists who don't believe a single word anyone has to say.

Bottom line though, as a reader, wouldn't you rather read a journalist who is willing to say something negative about the industry they cover than a cheer-leader who only reports the fluff?
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