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  #61 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 10:19 AM
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 10:26 AM
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Default And now I see why

forums like this get such a bad name at times. The back and forth bantering can get to be too much. Yes there are always going to be differences of opinions and people disagree but....wow. This thread has gotten out of hand with the personal attacks. Yes the proper id paperwork was not brought to the pier. With a passport this would not happened. I blame most of this on the TA that failed to do his/her job. Unexperineced travelers this this couple need all the help they can get. I'm sure any new experince that you folks have such ass traveling overseas for the first time makes you a little unsettled.

The cruiseline never should have asked for a copy of a childs BC if it was not going to accept it. So I can see his point too. I would have been upset as well if I was in that position.

Hopefully this can be resolved so that the couple can enjoy a nice cruise. With a 75% discount on a short cruise to the Bahamas it will only cost out of pocket $50-75 per person.

Everyone should move on and start a new thread and let this one die off into internet heaven.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 10:35 AM
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Amen! And thank you.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2008, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roynala
forums like this get such a bad name at times. The back and forth bantering can get to be too much. Yes there are always going to be differences of opinions and people disagree but....wow. This thread has gotten out of hand with the personal attacks. Yes the proper id paperwork was not brought to the pier. With a passport this would not happened. I blame most of this on the TA that failed to do his/her job. Unexperineced travelers this this couple need all the help they can get. I'm sure any new experince that you folks have such ass traveling overseas for the first time makes you a little unsettled.
I disagree. I do not see any personal attacks.

I do agree with you that the fault lies with the TA (and of course the OP in my opinion) and the OP should use this as a learming experience. But OP does not. He defends his point that the cruise line owes him more than what they kindly offered. And that is the point of contention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roynala
The cruiseline never should have asked for a copy of a childs BC if it was not going to accept it. So I can see his point too. I would have been upset as well if I was in that position.
I agree for the simple reason that now the OP has yet another excuse to deflect from the initial problem of not bringing the correct documentation in the first place. In all fairness if you read this thread it became all about what the cruise line asked for in the second place not the original documentation.

Just because the cruise line asked for that document they do not have to accept this if it contains erros such in spelling and format.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roynala
Hopefully this can be resolved so that the couple can enjoy a nice cruise. With a 75% discount on a short cruise to the Bahamas it will only cost out of pocket $50-75 per person.
I agree again. But as you can read: it is not enough for the OP.
If he would have simply said " I screwed up and the cruise line was so nice to give me 75% of my next cruise fare" This thread would have been gone and dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roynala
Everyone should move on and start a new thread and let this one die off into internet heaven.
I agree and see previous paragraph.

In conclusion: There are just complaints and unjust complaints. Period! In this case the OP violated instructions on required documentation and regardless of what happened afterwards it is simply the OP's fault and he should not be entitled to anything. The cruise line still offered 75% off the next cruise and he/she should have taken it. If he would attempt to board an airplane with the wrong documentation he would have gotten null.

I also look at it in the broader view of things. Any type of unwarranted compensation request is a step to the possibility of fraud on a larger scale.
A case like that could easily open the possibility for other cruisers to cancel cruises purposely right at boarding time by intentionally bringing wrong documentation and expecting a full refund. The purpose of a final payment date, penalty phase and insurance or not would be rendered mood. It would make it harder for any cruise line to plan ahead, service will get more expensive or reduced.

We've read many cases where cruisers couldn't make the cruise after final payment dates for various reasons and they were either lucky to have purchased insurance or unlucky because they didn't and they were looking for ways to get their money back even so it was within penalty phase.

What is the backlash? Those cruising will pay the price eventually.

Is that so far fetched? Not at all. Taking cash out of the casino for the purpose of getting double points on an RCCL Visa, just to turn around and use same cash to pay off the credit card and use the received RCCL points as OBC, while at the same time avoiding a credit card cash withdrawal fee, once began with one person. Since the RCCL Visa Reward is not that old we are looking at a few years. This type of behavior became so popular that RCCL is now forced to add 3% cash withdrawal charge (see live report from Radiance on the other forum) thus hurting all those who used the cash for its intended purpose - to be used in the Casino.

With the internet a practice like that spreads like a brush fire and in no time people will get the hang of it and the reason for rules are rendered obsolete.

I am not sitting here and let complaints like this one just fly by because I am expected to show compassion for something which is definitely wrong and could hurt a product I like in the long run.

I am utterly surprised at some opinions that it is OK to just complain without being accountable and when those opposing it are either called employees or cheerleaders and the attempt to quiet them is made.

Are forums only available to those who have unjust complaints?
Are those threads only good and valuable if one agrees with unjust complaints?
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old May 31st, 2008, 11:58 PM
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After all of this - the final word : Get a passport : ALWAYS !!! Do not listen to anyone who gives you other advice. You pay a few bucks and they are good for 10 years. From now on - DO NOT pack beverages in your luggage. It is more trouble than it is worth.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old June 1st, 2008, 01:34 AM
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First, it's worth its weight in gold now so get your passport immediately so that you never have to go through this again.

Second, we live in your sister state New Jersey. In order for us to get new licenses, a female needs to provide the following:

a digital birth certificate from the municipality - not the hospital birth certificate
a digital marriage license from the municipality in which you were married, no matter the location
if you're divorced, you need your judgment of divorce
a residential utility bill with your full name and address on it
your old photo license (don't ever throw your old one out)
amongst other things - it's a point system

you will need the top three items for a passport too but doublecheck the requirements....

I would have been inconsolable if that had happened to me. I fault the person who told you you didn't need a passport. Passports make traveling so much easier these days.

Don't feel bad though, we're taking our granddaughter in October and there are documents that we need to travel with her in addition to her passport....
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old June 1st, 2008, 09:46 AM
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Hipshot,

As a senior citizen who is on a fixed income myself, I do so feel badly for you but experience is indeed, the best teacher and sometimes, "going overboard" in preparation can pay huge dividends.

When the wife and I took our first cruise in '06, we had no benefit of a local travel agent as a gentleman in New Jersey was making a group booking of which we were part. I therefore had to myself insure that all "i'"s were dotted and "t's" were crossed. Throughout the process, my wife thought I was probably an "hysterical Annie" as she couldn't understand why in the world I was getting so technical. As it turned out I wasn't "technical" enough in preparation for applying for our passports (or, in this instance, could I have reasonably been expected to have been).

Nowhere on my original document (nor did it state in government passport requirements that such was indeed a requirement) that while my birth certificate had a raised seal, did it state that the document was "on file" in the state in which I was born (although it was); (something they didn't put on birth certificates back then in the city in which I was born). When I applied for my passport my brth certifcate was refused for that reaon. I thought the requirement a bit ludicrous but I should have known better having spent a career as a uniformed police intructor for a major state department in the Northeast and understanding how ridiculous beauracracy can get. Nevertheless, it was not accepted as sufficient for a passport by the government representative even though it was "exactly" what was allegedly required for a passport by that same US government. I assure you that a large number of folks who have responded to this posting didn't know that, if only because many have been born since they began putting that info on birth certificates. Had I not got my passport and had expected to use that document on boarding, I too may have been refused boarding and remember, things weren't as sticky as even as recently as two years ago.

Believe me I commisserate wth you that the individual who informed you that your child's birth certificate would suffice and when you produced the required document, it turned out to be unacceptable you were understandably incensed. Nonetheless, it was really not the fault even of the representative who declined the document, just as it was not the fault of the Passport representative who informed me that although I produced the document listed by the government as proof of birth, it too was not acceptable. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that your T/A is not listed as being professionally trained specially trained by the industry in booking cruises and the requirements associated therewith. There are many that aren't.

As long as you have learned from your experience just how technical such things can be in this day and age, you have gained from the experience. I also assure you that I and undoubtedly everyone who has responded your post, wish you only the best and that you eventually are able to take your cruise which I am sure you, as have millions of others, will eventually classify as one of the most magical vacations of your lives.

Happy cruising,

Todd
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old June 1st, 2008, 06:36 PM
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First, I'm sorry your cruise was ruined whoevers fault it was, nobody wants to miss out on their vacation.

But I have to say, I'm kinda glad to know that R.C. didn't let you on. You state that your not terrorists, and Ibeleive you, but I also don't know you. You provided the alternate documentation, but for whatever reason, it was not to their satisfaction. That satisfaction was indeed out of your control, but the fact still remains.

I would not want to be on a cruise or a plane with a couple who was let on without satisfactory documentation just because they looked like a nice old couple just trying to have a nice vacation. Unfortunately the world is a very crazy place and we just can't take any chances.

And jusst out of curiousity, didn't you ever need your bc, the one with a raised seal, even to get you driers license?
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old June 3rd, 2008, 11:24 AM
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In this day and age, passports are your best option for the least hassles. It use to be you could go to Niagara Falls with no documentation requried, whereas now I have passports for all of us and take just in case. Even though I'm married, the kids and I share same last same, every time I take the kids over without my husband, the passport control always ask where he is.... and that seems very weird to me... You never know what they will ask these days.. We almost had our car searched last time as daughter had a huge box of stuffed animals they were questioning....

Its just a much more cautious world these days post 9-11 and nothing is going to turn back time to pre 9-11. My six year old son had to get patted down in special screening at the airport (he looked so scared standing there spread eagled) because he ran up and hugged me when I was pulled aside for special screening. Because he touched me, he had to be screened too. At the time, I was kinda pissed about this.

Still, I vote for all the extra precautions in general... However, on an individual basis, sorry your cruise was messed up
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Old June 4th, 2008, 09:02 AM
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Hipshot... I'm sorry you missed your cruise. I missed my flight (and cruise) for my last cruise in April due to a highway construction delay and it was a horrible experience... (that's a whole other story) So I can totally relate to how you must've felt going back home... But I learned from it and this next cruise I'm leaving a day early...

So, get your passports and get yourself on another cruise asap and put this all behind you like I am doing! 8)
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old June 4th, 2008, 10:47 AM
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FL Cruiser64

Does the prosecution rest?
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old June 4th, 2008, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron n Jon
FL Cruiser64

Does the prosecution rest?
Heck no.

While the evidence is already overwhelming and the accused are guilty as charged we will continue on.

Got a problem with that?
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old June 4th, 2008, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FL_Cruiser64
In conclusion:
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old June 4th, 2008, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: And now I see why

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron n Jon
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL_Cruiser64
In conclusion:
Oopsie.

Don't know what was your respond. But I must say that I thought I was in a different thread.

My apologies.

So to answer the your original question:
we all put forth our opinions and it is now up to the OP what he is going to do.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old June 4th, 2008, 11:34 AM
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Ron n Jon,



My view...

The case is still open....

The Defense has expertly presented its case...

And has thanked it's witnesses......

The Jury is still in deliberations on this one...

To be continued...
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old June 4th, 2008, 05:36 PM
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This was posted by CruiseArizona, which was posted incorrectly so moved here
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hipshot,

This is so sad, and I can see your frustration. I had originally tuned into this thread a few days ago, and I was hoping to see that it was resolved.

I can see both sides of the story, but I to say that the only err on the part of RC was giving you an alternative that really wasn't viable. Perhaps this was the fault of one inexperienced boarding agent or agents. and not even a real alternative?

It makes me so sad that you missed your cruise, but possibly you can end up doing what I saw someone advise on an earlier post. Take the 75% and save a bit for the other 25% and then enjoy your cruise as soon as possible.

Please let us know what your are able to work out.
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Old June 4th, 2008, 05:36 PM
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Has anyone suggested you contact your congressional representative? If the rules are as the RCI rep stated, it appears that homeland security is trying to dictate the format of state birth certificates. Ask your congressman if the 9th amendment has been repealed.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old June 4th, 2008, 05:42 PM
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I rarely say this in public, but I find some poster's confrontational demeanor to be very off-putting. This is CruiseMates, so in a sense it is "our house". If I invited you to a party at my house and you spoke that way to complete stranger, right or wrong, I would politely ask you to refrain or leave.

Why berate a novice who is having a problem understanding a very complicated issue? Are we here to help people, or just make them feel worse about an already bad situation?

We are here to help - not argue with people. Can I request that everyone get onboard with the spirit of CruiseMates?

FWIW: even the Dept of Homeland Security and BCP don't know what the exact rules are for cruiser documentation. I am at a conference today with the head of Homeland Security and I just discovered a HUGE mistake they have online in their WHTI FAQ. It says that as of June 2009 cruisers will not need passports to cruise in the Western Hemisphere when in fact they WILL. They read what I pointed out to them and said - "yeah, we know our cruise information is currently a mess. We need to work on it."

If they can make a mistake, and they are the ones making up the rules, then Hipshot deserves a little considerate leeway for his experience with nearly the same issue.

Hipshot - I do commiserate. I will say this is the precise reason why we always recommend passports no matter what for everyone, but I do agree with you about two things - it sounds like the document they requested you get should have sufficed, and that you should have been allowed to talk to a supervisor.

The cruise lines are NOT always right. I know of a lady denied boarding because she had a passport from Macau. The cruise line told her it was Chinese and she needed a visa to go to Bermuda. DENIED BOARDING. THE NEXT DAY SHE DISCOVERED BERMUDA DOES NOT REQUIRE VISAS FOR MACAU VISITORS. They made the error, not the cruiser. She had to pay for a hotrel in NY City, pay for new air tickets, and missed her cruise - all because the cruise line made a mistake. Being able to talk to a supervisor is ESSENTIAL customer service.
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Old June 4th, 2008, 10:40 PM
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Very interesting information Paul. That seminar must have been very interesting. Bob
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Old June 5th, 2008, 01:53 AM
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it is a very good seminar and I enjoy talking to the govt about their policies. More tomorrow.
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Old June 5th, 2008, 07:08 AM
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Paul,
Very informative post. And thank you and the rest of you for your support.

I came here for information to support my case when I finally get to talk to someone about this issue. I am accomplishing that goal. For that, thank you all.

So far after my information gathering, my feelings are still this. I screwed up, hindsite is 2020, and I'm working on correcting my document issues. That's a given.

But I was also given an unsolicited alternative to resolve the issue. I provided that alternative. I can prove it. And was denied on a minor technical issue beyond my control. No common sense or logic was applied and I was denied to talk to a supervisor.

For these reasons I'm pressing this issue. People make mistakes. I certainly did. And if RCI ends up agreeing with me, all I'm asking is I not be financially punished for an RCI error and just make me happy. Just make it right. I don't think that is too much to ask. I mean really. This was not a world tour. It was a weekend cruise. How much am I really asking for?

I still want to do this, and I'm not trashing the line for an error in judgement, I just want to give them the opportunity to do the right thing. And I'm just here to gather information so when I DO talk to someone, I can give an intelligent argument. And for that, I thank you all.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 05:09 PM
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Paul,

Your post was exactly what I was trying to say. This should be a site where people can go to get help, suggestions etc, not to get bashed because they did not know better. I was hoping this thread would just die but I see it did not.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 10:50 PM
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Keep in mind that the problem you were having getting on the ship could pale in comparison to trying to explain to customs agents as you exit, how you were able to get on the ship with improper documents.
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