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  #31 (permalink)  
Old March 14th, 2009, 02:14 PM
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[b]A cruise critic member posted this from Royal Caribbean this morning:[/b]
After watching a dead horse being dragged through the street on the Boards here, several days ago I decided to ask Royal Caribbean about the Royal Champions program for myself. Here's the answer I received cut-and-pasted. I bolded some interesting words:


Dear Mr. Pirate:

Thank you for your email. We apologize for the delay in our response.

We have identified influential online bloggers and posters who have demonstrated a passion for the Royal Caribbean brand and offering. This group is not unfailingly positive, but rather has displayed both an affection and dedication to finding out all they can about Royal Caribbean and demonstrating a willingness to help others online determine if a Royal Caribbean vacation is right for them or to help them plan a vacation already booked to improve their experience.

Thank you for choosing Royal Caribbean International.

Sincerely,

Christopher Fitzgerald
Customer Service Representative
  #32 (permalink)  
Old March 14th, 2009, 05:52 PM
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Paul,

Thanks for your posts and insights regarding this Royal Champion situation. I have been a member of cruise critic for a long time (back to when it was on AOL only) and also joined cruisemates shortly after it first started up. I don't post a lot, but I do read quite a bit on both sites. Royal Caribbean is (and probably will continue to be) my preferred cruise line, but I have lost a great deal of faith in the "independence" of the cruise critic site for being a party to this Royal Champion viral marketing. Whatever perks these Royal Champions get are equivalent to "compensation" and IMHO, I see the situation as being similar to allowing travel agents to advertise on the message boards.

Since I have a limited amount of time to spend online everyday, I will probably be spending much more time on cruisemates since I won't be spending much time at all on cruise critic.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old March 14th, 2009, 06:26 PM
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Old March 14th, 2009, 06:55 PM
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Hi all, I had joined here previously but not having visited for ages I can't remember who I was so I've signed up again. If that's against the rules I'm sure the admin will let me know and let me know how to find myself

I have been a member of cc I think since 2003. I have always been aware of the "champions" since the day I joined - those who rag on anyone who has anything to say against RCL. I've been beaten up a time or two myself. I've been banned a couple of times for questioning some things and once for getting into a civil discussion with another poster just last fall. I guess I can understand why now.

I believe most over here on this thread anyway, have a pretty good handle on the behavious of the champs - I just find it ashame that CC has now admitted to the duplicity of the problem.

When I first started seeing the "Royal Chanpions" in sigs I just thought it was a group of people who had banded together to call themselves that as I felt the attitude they displaced was the prerequiste for belonging.

Anyway, I'm so glad I can finally say what I feel somewhere.

I've also noticed that many, many people have been scared away from the RCL portion of CC. There used to be hundreds of people posting in day - now maybe a dozen.

Well, I need to find the rules on here - can someone direct me? I don't want to post things I shouldn't.
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Old March 14th, 2009, 08:34 PM
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2009, 02:55 AM
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How wonderfully refreshing for someone to truly understand the ugly element in this issue -- this has been, to a pretty large extent, as was the fuel surcharge thread before it, and any number of threads where someone voiced disapproval of RCI, about thuggery. We used to think that to turn otherwise nice people into thugs, there had to be an authoritarian figure -- but we are coming to realize that Santa Clause can do it, too -- if the right personalities are chosen, I'd presume. Lord I'd love to know what that data mining software looks like -- love to know who developed it, but then that would be the subjective criterea and probably guarded by a literal full time pit bull. I actually have some good guesses as to a few words that could be keyed in to the data mining apparatus. I have noticed that thugs like certain things.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 03:31 AM
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Now I am afraid to say that I like Royal Caribbean, people will think that I got paid for saying it.

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2009, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxon
How wonderfully refreshing for someone to truly understand the ugly element in this issue -- this has been, to a pretty large extent, as was the fuel surcharge thread before it, and any number of threads where someone voiced disapproval of RCI, about thuggery. We used to think that to turn otherwise nice people into thugs, there had to be an authoritarian figure -- but we are coming to realize that Santa Clause can do it, too -- if the right personalities are chosen, I'd presume. Lord I'd love to know what that data mining software looks like -- love to know who developed it, but then that would be the subjective criterea and probably guarded by a literal full time pit bull. I actually have some good guesses as to a few words that could be keyed in to the data mining apparatus. I have noticed that thugs like certain things.
Data mining isn't something new. I expect all of the cruise companies use it. Amazon is built on it. Take for example Kristoffer A. Garin's book on the history of cruising (I'm just going to use this as an example, I'm not putting any other values on it.) When you go to the page for the book you will see other books that people who bought this book have also purchased. You see that it's #266,935 in Books, #3 in Books > Nonfiction > Transportation > Ships > Passenger and #21 in Books > Business & Investing > Industries & Professions > Transportation. Which is pretty amazing for a book that is no longer in publication. Amazon used to write things like "#5 of books bought by members living in Fresno" for example. It's all just part of the data mining process. It takes everything in. Associated a value with certain words and other data that you have given it and basically leaves the data for a program like SAS or SPSSx to do statistical cluster analysis on. For example, you might ask for it to try to form 20 different homogeneous groups and then tell you about those groups and why it thought that these should go together. Basically when you find the group that you want, you can then have it rank the people in that list based on how well they match the criteria you set. (Which is why I say that calling it a focus group doesn't make sense to me, because it goes against most scientific principals of statistics, you want diversity in a focus group.)

Damn... why am I getting into this? This is why some people call the information in my head useless crap. (And I haven't even gotten into talking about psychopathy and the PCLR yet). And I hope that wasn't really off topic, just a way to enlighten people about what Buzz Metrics and other data mining companies do.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2009, 12:50 PM
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Wow, Ephraim -- I woke up thinking about BuzzMetrics, and here's your post? Useless crap??? I'd like to live in your noggin' for a year! Have they invented something yet, where I could just hook up to the grand computer -- the brain -- and just download from someone else's into mine?

I don't think this is off topic at all -- this is the technology which has brought us to viral marketing and RCCL. And I, for one, am fascinated by it. And people who have never set foot on a cruise ship ought to be concerned about it because of what we saw in the FISA violations.

PCLR?

BuzzMetrics was on my mind this am because of a post last night about why a 14 yr old was chosen by RCCL's viral marketing campaign. One poster said it was because he had a cruising mural painted on his bedroom walls as a birthday gift from his dear mum. I started thinking of the article Buzzploition of Minors, and wondered EXACTLY what BuzzMetrics used for key words, and who the heck else they are doing work for?

Hubby said to me -- you better be careful with all the causes you get involved with on the internet. The more I thought about it, the creepier it got. Made me want to stop "chatting" all together, or start more indentities. I use one for political posting on national issues/forums, one for travel posting, and another for political posting on local forums. Any advice?
  #40 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2009, 01:31 PM
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I presume that buzzmetrics is a simple mixture of data mining and statistics. It's something all companies use today. The better the company the more they really understand what is happening. Obviously companies want positive "buzz" about themselves. Buzzmetrics is a unit of Neilsen, you know the same people that tell the industry what TV shows we have on our TV (not what we watch, since they monitor the channels, not the humans).

Cruise companies are quite well know for watching their spin.... They all have environmental charities that they support etc. They also all have lobbies and of course the CLIA.

PCL-R is a psychopathy test. Sometimes called the Hare psychopathy checklist. It's not very big in the US but used more in Britain and Canada. From what I understand it's used by the Canadian government to determine who should and shouldn't get criminal rehabilitation in jail. And yes... that is really OT.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuki
Thank you. I've read them and if I get out of line (which won't be on purpose) I hope you'll let me know rather than kicking me off.

I must be addicted to CC. I don't want to post there anymore (except on float-away with a particular group of people) but I can't help reading. There are so many things I see much clearer now. An example is the no more whining thread (sorry can't remember the proper title). It was started my one of the lead RC's and I have to say, he proved their point admirable. People started signing up immediately. I have to admit I did too but once I realized I had been lead that way I emailed the admin to remove my posting.

That thread is a perfect example of what RCL/CC is trying to accomplish over there and shows just how successful it's been.

Right now there are almost no RCer's posting anywhere - only those who have (I'm again assuming) been designated as the defenders of the clan.

I don't know what I can say about myself here actually so I can't go on more as I don't want to indentify anything else about myself until I know I can. (That didn't make a whole lot of sense - sorry.)
  #42 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2009, 05:39 PM
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Ephraim,

As you probably know, the mega viral marketing thread has now been locked pver at that other place. I really have to love the post that appears to have made it all reach a tipping point. Gee, I can actually go take a shower, now!


Jax
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Old March 15th, 2009, 05:56 PM
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Perhaps it's a good thing it's closed now. Pretty well everyone should know by now what's happened - at least most frequent posters.

I believe a not have now left and it will be a very long time if ever they come back.

Once the CR's start posting again, the majority of people are going to ignore them so they will have a mutual admiration society shortly.

Hopefully the 2 main mouthpieces will also give it a rest for awhile.

As for management over there, well, I'm really disappointed with the stance they've taken. They have only proven that there are two sets of rules over there - one for the Royal Champions and one for the rest of the world - otherwise know as Chimps/Chumps.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxon
Ephraim,

As you probably know, the mega viral marketing thread has now been locked pver at that other place. I really have to love the post that appears to have made it all reach a tipping point. Gee, I can actually go take a shower, now!


Jax
It is not locked. Perhaps for a short time as they deleted random posts as usual.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 08:49 PM
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BTW...i'm new here...(just found y'all)...

I'm NOT a royal champion....my opinions are my OWN...not those of any hotel, cruise line, advertiser, employer past or present or anything!

I've been over THERE for 5-6 years...and frankly needed a little change of pace....

So..........HI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! greetings from central Jersey!
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Old March 15th, 2009, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisermeg
BTW...i'm new here...(just found y'all)...

I'm NOT a royal champion....my opinions are my OWN...not those of any hotel, cruise line, advertiser, employer past or present or anything!

I've been over THERE for 5-6 years...and frankly needed a little change of pace....

So..........HI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! greetings from central Jersey!
Me too..........got tired of the mess..............makes me rather scared to post over them. I guess I've gotten paranoid. I joined here today too.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 09:11 PM
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well..i'm gonna go rea the threads and try to be helpful.........i see a bunch of people have joined us here too!
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Old March 15th, 2009, 09:12 PM
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Ok well with all this Champion talk I went over there to check it out....I see those that are "Champions" have it listed. There is also a Royal Champions thread that is brutal!

I just have one question is General Mills going to get all the Royal Champions together and feature them on the cover of Wheaties..The breakfest for Champions....


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Old March 15th, 2009, 09:20 PM
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very funny! (well since michael phelps may get booted off the wheaties box.... )

btw..not all the RCs have that in their sig....it's not a requirement...but most do....

ah don't get me started......it's not the people, it's the principle....
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Old March 15th, 2009, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisermeg
very funny! (well since michael phelps may get booted off the wheaties box.... )

btw..not all the RCs have that in their sig....it's not a requirement...but most do....

ah don't get me started......it's not the people, it's the principle....
Hi Meg from Jersey!! I'm Northwest Jersey.

Just a joke I have no problem with those that are the Royal Champions I'm sure they are nice folks. As for CC I'm not sure what goes on over there and I don't care. CM is the place to be!!
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Old March 15th, 2009, 09:49 PM
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ah.........NW jersey eh?? we're in central jersey near princeton...right up the road from where Washington crossed the delaware!
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Old March 15th, 2009, 09:54 PM
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ah.........NW jersey eh?? we're in central jersey near princeton...right up the road from where Washington crossed the delaware!
Princeton is about an hour away. I'm near Morristown in Morris County.

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Old March 15th, 2009, 10:03 PM
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oh..ok. mom & i have been know to run away from home to the hanover marriott or courtyard or something or other up there...and my old college roommate lives in succasunna (which i think i spelled wrong..)


small world........

and thanks! 8)
  #54 (permalink)  
Old March 15th, 2009, 10:06 PM
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One Champ, a nice one, over there talked about the forum RCCL was trying to set up and asked for input from her. She said it kind of creeped her out (my words and recollection of the tenor) because they had push pins and things on a map trying to hook you up with people close by who shared your particular interests -- she wasn't interested.

I think Cruisemates is accomplishing that very thing, with no help at all, given the most recent posts in this thread.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoreguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxon
Ephraim,

As you probably know, the mega viral marketing thread has now been locked pver at that other place. I really have to love the post that appears to have made it all reach a tipping point. Gee, I can actually go take a shower, now!


Jax
It is not locked. Perhaps for a short time as they deleted random posts as usual.
Thanks for the info -- I'm working on a little research project. We will see what develops over there.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 10:17 PM
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Maybe there should be a welcome refugees and introduce yourself thread

Honestly, I'm very surprised at how calm it seems over here. And I'm tired of that thread. But then again you might have noticed that I'm no longer really adding to the flogging of the dead horse, I'm just filling in information while reading it (as I did here).

The thing that I find oddest, is that their parent website has a clear and unwaivering policy on the reviews being impartial and gifts/bribes. I've even caught one shill myself on that website and reported them.

And please, if I cross a line, someone please tell me. I'm liking the air around here.
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Old March 15th, 2009, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
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Maybe there should be a welcome refugees and introduce yourself thread
>snip<

And please, if I cross a line, someone please tell me. I'm liking the air around here.
yup....too much drama over there....drama free here.....

ah well.......back to the 'celebrity apprentice'
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Old March 16th, 2009, 12:44 AM
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One thing I can tell the new folks is that this site is very friendly and informative.

I believe the reason for that is that the moderators are firm but fair, and the people here are the best!

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Old March 16th, 2009, 01:17 AM
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Just sort of an interesting note, the post counts exploded over there, today. Sure it's Sunday, and I do not know what is normal traffic on a very hot controversy in the cruise world/cruise forums, but I thought that quite interesting. I think maybe no one but a forum owner may have ever tracked such things (or BuzzMetrics). Maybe one can see how viralent something is getting by seeing it's growth -- sort of like bacteria in a petri dish, or better, how the fever is rising. In this instance, the fever goes up a fair % the second day, starts to come down, the third, then starts the rise again, just a little, over the next two days, and then blows the mercury out the top. Just interesting.

My best guess, is that even hot topics, begin to simmer down in about a week, although I really don't recollect that as being the case with the fuel surcharge thread. From my best research -- the thread was deleted before the AG ever forced the cruise line to follow the law -- there were 4000 posts on that, over what period? just don't know because it disappeared, but my best guess is a couple of weeks, up to a month. The 4000 number came from DiverDave, who was one of a handful who initially rallied the troops, on a subsequent victory thread. One would not expect this ethical issue to generate nearly that kind of buzz simply because so few pocket books are affected, and then, just in a tangential sort of way, ie shut down the program and some of the champs are out of a free cruise, but keep it for Diamond status customers, and only maybe 30 of the 75 are out anything.

Maybe it is pretty astounding that an issue which is pretty purely an ethical matter would even get so much buzz. But then, you have the psychology that was used against the champs by the company which brought them, frothing, out of the whirlpool.

I popped over to see how things were progressing after the 4 pm lock down (kind of like a prison?) -- it has pretty much just brought out what look to be wannabe Royal Champs. I think the people who cared about the ethics of viral marketing, have pretty much decided there will be no adequate answers from the board, and have tired of "suffering the fools."
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Old March 16th, 2009, 02:42 AM
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