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Old January 30th, 2011, 02:26 PM
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Default Sad result of Brilliance mess in the Med.

Taxi driver sues Royal Caribbean cruise line over his wife's death - The Daily Record

This is a terrible result of trying to make a port when indeed, if reports are correct, this captain should not have even left Rhodes.
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Old January 30th, 2011, 08:50 PM
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I don't know about being able to see the propellers lifting out of the water, as the grieving husband says in this story. You shouldn't be able to see propellers unless your either behind the ship, or hanging off the back. And believe me, there weren't any passengers hanging over the aft banister getting a looksie while we were tipping over on our side. He's exxagerating the story because he thinks it will strengthen his case when he really doesn't need to. The ship rolled back and forth for five minutes in 80 mile per hour winds as 60 foot waves thrashed us within a few meters of lurching over and sinking. It caused her strokes. The Captain Tengelson warned us about "high seas" just after we left Rhodes. He could have prevented it, cost us a day but we probably would have ended up getting into Alexandria. And this woman would probably still be alive.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 03:27 AM
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Cruising in the Med in Nov/Dec is not a good idea - JMHO.

Annie
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Old January 31st, 2011, 07:01 AM
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While I agree about the propellers I think you'll find that is his solicitor talking. It's a case of jockeying for position. However that should not distract from the tragedy of what happened. Apparently that newspaper is also known as a "rag" something along the line of FOX so I wouldn't put too much into that part of it.

I personally believe the captain was at fault. A person with as much experience as he has just have known not to try to take that ship to Alexandria when he did. It comes down to dollars and cents with the "sense" missing in this case. As much as he is master of the vessel he has masters in Miami who were no doubt telling him to plow on.

I don't believe we will really know the truth behind this as RCL will settle out of court for an undisclosed sum. There are those who believe RCL did everything right in this case (they are posting elsewhere) and feel this fellow just wants money. Of course none of them were there.

Nevertheless, no amount of money is going to bring back his wife.

As for sailing to the middle east in November/Deccember, I don't necessarily agree. We were there November passed and he weather was perfect. No problems at all.
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Next up - Celebrity Reflection, Nov. 22 (learning to sail solo) followed by Independence of the Seas Nov. 30.


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44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

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Old January 31st, 2011, 09:37 AM
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We'll have to see what transpires but with the information I have at this point I would say that he will receive a decent settlement and I will say that, in this case, it is probably warranted.

There was a judgement error made by the Captain in trying to get into the harbor and injuries and death occurred. Royal Caribbean will have liability in the matter.

Sad that it had to happen and my heart goes out to this man and all those who were injured.

Take care,
Mike
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Old January 31st, 2011, 10:54 AM
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There have been numerous incidents in Cyprus, where people have been swept out to sea because of Nov storms. Unfortunately, they were Scots as well.

All I am saying is that bad storms are not unknown; people should factor this in.

My heart bleeds for the family.

Annie
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Old January 31st, 2011, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anniegb View Post
There have been numerous incidents in Cyprus, where people have been swept out to sea because of Nov storms. Unfortunately, they were Scots as well.

All I am saying is that bad storms are not unknown; people should factor this in.

My heart bleeds for the family.

Annie

Who should factor this in - certainly not the passenger. It was/is the cruise lines responsibility for the safety of their passengers while onboard the ship and there is no way this captain should have attempted to sail to Alexandria.
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Next up - Celebrity Reflection, Nov. 22 (learning to sail solo) followed by Independence of the Seas Nov. 30.


Celebrity Constellation - March 17 followed by Celebrity Reflection - March 22 (done)




44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

Yes, I'm a Royal Chump and proud of it.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Felix, all I am saying that adverse weather is not unknown.

I, personally, would not cruise the Med after Oct.

Annie
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Old January 31st, 2011, 12:18 PM
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I agree to a point. I would expect better guidence from the captain though. I knew when we went in November we were taking a bit of a chance but to be honest, I thought the only chance would be colder weather. I guess I didn't think about that kind of storm because I would have expected better of the captain.

The same risk runs in the Caribbean as well when one sails during hurricane season but it's hard not to since it's 6 months long. Wow would that put a kink in cruising if too many had that thought.

I think we all take chances and know the risks we are under - just visiting countries such as Egypt. It's just that some risks are too well hidden.
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Next up - Celebrity Reflection, Nov. 22 (learning to sail solo) followed by Independence of the Seas Nov. 30.


Celebrity Constellation - March 17 followed by Celebrity Reflection - March 22 (done)




44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

Yes, I'm a Royal Chump and proud of it.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 12:27 PM
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Felix, please do not misunderstand me - I am not absolving either the Captain or the Cruiseline. Far from it. The vessel should have stayed in port - JMHO.

The commercial pressures mean that vessels sail in areas at times of the year when conditions are not the best.

The passenger must take this into a/c also.

BTW I would not sail/visit the Caribbean during hurricane season.

Annie
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Old January 31st, 2011, 04:15 PM
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RCI has released a statement,claiming a pre exisiting condition was the cause of her condition and subsequent passing. Releasing private medical information for this woman is very troubling.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 05:43 PM
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That is also highly illegal.
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44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
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Old January 31st, 2011, 05:52 PM
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One of those cases where if the ship stayed in port they would complain, if it sailed.....well we unfortunately know that answer.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 05:59 PM
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Moderating for all these years, we have always said, when asked about cruising during hurricane season....."the Captain sails around any issues." Why they went against the the norm in this instance, is mind boggling.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 06:03 PM
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Do you think they have schedules? I have noticed here in Southampton that P&O ships stay here 'til morning sometimes in bad weather, but the say..Independence of the seas will sail.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 06:06 PM
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So they are drawing a line in the sand. Too bad. They are going to come out looking bad no matter which way they go. They tried that with the Smith case too. They still ended up paying.

She may have had a pre-existing condition but the captain, with his negligience in taking the ship into a terrible storm aggravated her condition therefore was the cause of her death.

I'm certainly no a lawyer and I'm not trying to second-guess anyone. That is just the way I would fight RCL on this one.
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Next up - Celebrity Reflection, Nov. 22 (learning to sail solo) followed by Independence of the Seas Nov. 30.


Celebrity Constellation - March 17 followed by Celebrity Reflection - March 22 (done)




44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

Yes, I'm a Royal Chump and proud of it.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 06:08 PM
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I can say that none of us who got on the ship received any warnings that "sailing in the Mediterranean during the Winter months carried certain risks that were additional to the usual sailing dangers."

If I had, I might have had second thoughts about traveling that time of year.

And if anyone says I should have "just known", their full of it.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitMark View Post
I can say that none of us who got on the ship received any warnings that "sailing in the Mediterranean during the Winter months carried certain risks that were additional to the usual sailing dangers."

If I had, I might have had second thoughts about traveling that time of year.

And if anyone says I should have "just known", their full of it.

I'm on your side - I agree with you.
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Next up - Celebrity Reflection, Nov. 22 (learning to sail solo) followed by Independence of the Seas Nov. 30.


Celebrity Constellation - March 17 followed by Celebrity Reflection - March 22 (done)




44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

Yes, I'm a Royal Chump and proud of it.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 06:18 PM
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Stupid maybe we didn't realise that the Mediterranean GOT particularly rough, so others may well think the same. We also forget we are on a ship sometimes & the dangers that go with being at sea.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthed0g View Post
Stupid maybe we didn't realise that the Mediterranean GOT particularly rough, so others may well think the same. We also forget we are on a ship sometimes & the dangers that go with being at sea.

I don't think there is anything stupid about it. All waters can get rough. It's the chance you take. The real issue is the person in charge making a terrible decision when that same person should have known way better. That's negligience and has nothing to do with a passenger's decision to sail on any particular ship at any particular time.
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Next up - Celebrity Reflection, Nov. 22 (learning to sail solo) followed by Independence of the Seas Nov. 30.


Celebrity Constellation - March 17 followed by Celebrity Reflection - March 22 (done)




44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

Yes, I'm a Royal Chump and proud of it.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix_the_cat View Post
I don't think there is anything stupid about it. All waters can get rough. It's the chance you take. The real issue is the person in charge making a terrible decision when that same person should have known way better. That's negligience and has nothing to do with a passenger's decision to sail on any particular ship at any particular time.
To call this incident negligence is really just tom foolery. It was a serious incident, and very very sad that someone was killed as a result and others injured.

The Captain has very sophiscated equipment onboard, and is kept advised of all the latest forecasts for the areas in which they are sailing.

Niether the Captain, nor Miami head office would put their half billion dollar ship, and all its passengers in serious jeaprody just to keep on schedule to a port.

They routinely move ships about during hurricane season to avoid hurricanes. They also routinely go long distances off route to bypass storms they know about.

There was obviously a misjudgement made, but no doubt it was made relying on the most recent information they could get, combined with the expertise required by a Captain with years at sea.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuki View Post
To call this incident negligence is really just tom foolery. It was a serious incident, and very very sad that someone was killed as a result and others injured.

The Captain has very sophiscated equipment onboard, and is kept advised of all the latest forecasts for the areas in which they are sailing.

Niether the Captain, nor Miami head office would put their half billion dollar ship, and all its passengers in serious jeaprody just to keep on schedule to a port.

They routinely move ships about during hurricane season to avoid hurricanes. They also routinely go long distances off route to bypass storms they know about.

There was obviously a misjudgement made, but no doubt it was made relying on the most recent information they could get, combined with the expertise required by a Captain with years at sea.
I don't agree with you. I believe this captain was negligent. Was his equipment malfunctioning? Certainly no one is claiming so. He choose to go where towards Alexandria when other ship's captain's decided not to due to weather conditions/reports.

Yes, normally captain's do go around hurricanes or storms. The other captains did with this one. Only the captain onboard the Brilliance chose to go into the storm. And the fact he was removed immediately after also says a lot.

Tell me Kuki, if all the other vessel commanders knew not to try to go to Alexandria what made the information the Brilliance capt. recieved so different that he did what he did?

No, I will stick by my initial remarks and continue to call this negligience on his part until a court proves otherwise.
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Next up - Celebrity Reflection, Nov. 22 (learning to sail solo) followed by Independence of the Seas Nov. 30.


Celebrity Constellation - March 17 followed by Celebrity Reflection - March 22 (done)




44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

Yes, I'm a Royal Chump and proud of it.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 08:11 PM
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It is just much too easy to make serious accusations based on presumptions, with no knowledge of what went on.

Granted, in these situations, much of the information won't be make public unless it goes all the way through the courts. But that lack of information is no reason to justify idle speculation and make accusations based on it.

RCI is claiming that the deceased woman's death was a result of a pre-exisiting condition. I don't know if I believe that, so I certainly wouldn't declare them innocent of wrong doing either. Whatever it was, it is terribly sad for her husband and her family.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 08:19 PM
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I'm not actually referring to the death of the passenger. The courts will decide that just as they will decide on negligence. However I do feel that common sense has a lot to say in this matter and if all the captain lacked was commone sense then RCL better re-look and how they determine who they hire.

We are suppose to have a heck of a snow storm here tomorrow. I (along with everyone else of course) have been warned to watch out for white outs etc. If I still had young children at home (lucky me - they're too old to be at home) and took them out in my car after receiving that warning and knowing all my neighbours were listening to that warning and staying home and I crashed my car injurying my children I would be negligent.

The capt. of the Brilliance knew they were going into a storm, had warned everyone to stay in their cabin and proceed when he didn't have to. Just as negligent or stupid or whatever word you want to use.

Anyway, I actually hope this does go through the court system so the records can be made public.
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Next up - Celebrity Reflection, Nov. 22 (learning to sail solo) followed by Independence of the Seas Nov. 30.


Celebrity Constellation - March 17 followed by Celebrity Reflection - March 22 (done)




44 cruises - too many to list however cruiselines are in no particular order:

Azamara
Uniworld
RCL
Princess
NCL
HAL
Cunard
Celebrity
and some unknown tub

Yes, I'm a Royal Chump and proud of it.
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Old January 31st, 2011, 09:49 PM
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Irrespective of the outcome of any court case, the Master of the vessel will have to live with the fact that his decision was probably a factor in the death of the lady.

I worked in the marine industry for many years and have seen at first hand the effect that has on a mariner.

There are no 'winners'.

Annie
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