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Paul Motter July 18th, 2011 06:56 PM

Moving to Seattle - was it a good move?
I am wondering how guests and travel agents feel about Seabourn moving to Seattle - has it helped anything - made it worse - or no change?

I can tell you I contacted Rick Meadows (CEO of Seabourn) about doing an interview about three weeks before the Quest inaugural and he couldn't get to me at all before the ship came out, but he did promise me he would get to me soon afterwards.

He and his public relations department totally dropped the ball. Even with the promises they made they once again just dropped the ball and essentially I have heard absolutely nothing from them.

I have also been contacted the Holland America PR department with requests for information about HAL and have gotten no response. PR departments are supposed to want good publicity - but ther biggest breaking news about Seabourn was Newt Gingrich being called "elitist" and "Un-American" for cruising on the line to the Greek Isles (what a strange angle to take that was - I thought).

But did the Seabourn PR department do anything to even address that widely reported and vastly inaccurate and negative story? No, and isn't that their job?

Normally I wouldn't mention this inside baseball stuff in the message boards - but if they can't keep a promise they made to me, it really makes me wonder what they are doing over there.

I thought the move was supposed to made things run smoother. I don't personally don't see any changes.

Trackypup July 18th, 2011 07:02 PM

Our very good friends where on that sailing with Newt!

There was an interesting read on another board the other day about a lady who had booked and paid in full a Seabourn advertised price. They accepted her booking. A while later they came back and said they made a pricing mistake and if she wanted to sail she could pay them another 1,400 pounds. It's been an absolute nightmare for her dealing with Seattle.

So I'm going to have to say No, not such a smart move, they're losing clients and their reputation.

Paul Motter July 18th, 2011 07:13 PM

Wow - she paid full price, on time, etc. and they asked her fro more money and she still hasn't gotten it straightened out?

And it sounds like she booked it through the cruise line, coorect?

I hope she got some kind of invoice at some point stating exactly how much she owed - then she can prove she paid the full amount.

Yet another reason to use a travel agent - sometimes you need an impartial third party as a "witness" to what transpires. And the more expensive the cruise the more it matters.

Trackypup July 18th, 2011 09:32 PM

I think she did use an Agent, it was a sale price that Seabourn said they made a mistake on the price. I get the impression that it effected a few people and Seattle are just not handling it well.

Same thing happened to us on Princess a couple of months ago..price should have been $6,000 pp for a 21 day cruise...someone at Princess priced the group price for my agent at $3,500 pp. Princess is honoring our reservation and our price!

Snoozeman July 18th, 2011 11:10 PM

Princess did that just today. Advertised a Med for $1299, I sent it to my BIL. A few hours later they sent out a correction making it $1999. I don't know if anyone booked or if they honored it if they did.

I got an email from a HAL rep today about my Alaska cruise this week and her return said Seabourn. They must be combining duties.

Paul Motter July 18th, 2011 11:45 PM


Originally Posted by Snoozeman (Post 1382167)
I got an email from a HAL rep today about my Alaska cruise this week and her return said Seabourn. They must be combining duties.

Her return what? email?

Snoozeman July 19th, 2011 01:07 AM


Originally Posted by Paul Motter (Post 1382171)
Her return what? email?


She had return email addresses for both HAL and another for Seabourn in her signature. In fact I received another from a different person and it was the same: listing both. They must be consolidating some departments.

Iamboatman July 19th, 2011 01:53 AM

Wow are there some really terrible inaccuracies in this thread. It is amazing how someone post one thing falsely and because it is in writing it is treated as gospel.

One might want to consider that in the UK the entire structure is different and Seabourn, in fact, doesn't even advertise there. Then there is the issue of the poster never showing or giving the exact content of the alleged offer. Followed by the fact that there is absolutely no record anywhere of any other person having the same issue. Knowing what I know that issue was between the travel agency and the guest.

BTW, in the UK the payment is made by the client to the agency and the agency pays Carnival UK who in turn pays Seabourn. That is very much unlike the US where the client's credit card is charged directly by Seabourn.

As for Newt Gingrich, there is nothing Seabourn could do to spin that positively. There are two sayings in Public Relations that apply: Any news, good or bad, is good publicity as long as your name is spelled correctly...and, By addressing the small issue, you make it a big issue so let it die its death by itself.

As for Paul's concern that Rick Meadows hasn't gotten back to him, let's face it CruiseMates is not exactly the hotbed of luxury cruise activity. There have been enormous issues and operational matters which Seabourn's management has had to address and that is where the focus is.

I do not know everything, but I have spent hours and dinners with Rick Meadows and John Delaney...and many others at Seabourn. What they have done on the backend is incredible. And, to be sure, the onboard experience as been absolutely true to form.

Is everything perfect? No way. Is it overall better from an insider's standpoint? Absolutely. There are short term bumps and frustrations and, to be sure, I have them as well. But I do not see any trend of Seabourn guests being anything other than truly satisfied...enough to rebook and without fares getting ridiculously low as they had at the end of the term of the past management.

Just an informed opinion or two.

Trackypup July 19th, 2011 02:29 AM

Ian, if Seabourn have done nothing wrong, why are they offering to reimburse her for her non-refundable expenses?

GrannyLorr July 22nd, 2011 05:38 PM

I really wouldnt believe half what you read in CC!!....unless its written by Granny of course....but then it cant be cos she is banned for life!! :roll::mrgreen::roll:
There have been NO posts about this subject for 8 days....seems to have "died".

quote: "they're losing clients and their reputation."

which clients have they lost? someone on CC saying "Im not going to sail with them anymore" *pout pout pout*

Trackypup July 22nd, 2011 10:34 PM


Originally Posted by GrannyLorr (Post 1382845)
There have been NO posts about this subject for 8 days....seems to have "died".

did you happen to notice the giant padlock on the thread? it was locked 8 days ago by the Moderators.

GrannyLorr July 23rd, 2011 01:00 AM

oh dear.....nope I didnt notice the padlock....but then thats not unusual in that particular forum!

Paul Motter July 23rd, 2011 05:07 AM


I also write for FoxBusiness - and in turn my articles are often featured on the cover of - a top-10 news site in the world - and a conservative one, which relates directly to Newt Gingrich and cruising.

I can not think of anyone in the world more uniquely qualified to comment on Newt Being on Seabourn than myself.

Just because a tired old maxim that says "any publicity is good as long they spell your name right" exists does not mean it is true. I would never resort to such tired old sayings to prove a point. Such tired sayings are usually used by people who just always have to right, rather than people who strive for the truth.

That thread that was locked on CC was locked because some guy who seems by all appearances to be a Seabourn plant said it should be locked (He first disputed this women was telling the truth, then he asked Dan personally to lock it) - and lo and behold - Dan did lock it.

That is disgusting to me. We may not be as busy as Cruise Critic, but at least I can hold my head up high instead of being a cruise industry automaton.

There is so much fluff in the cruise business these days it is disgusting - and much of it comes form travel agents online posting as impartial customers. Do you really think the person on CC who asked for that thread to be locked was an impartial poster? I would wager a year's salary he was either a travel agent or affiliated with Seabourn in some way.

Pences July 23rd, 2011 12:55 PM

First post but a longtime reader.

Mr Motter,
as the saying goes, you can have your own opinion, but cannot have your own facts. And in your haste, your arrive at a reckless judgement same as the OP on the CC thread who repeatedly criticized Seabourn on her booking issue without providing facts despite being repeatedly asked by other CC posters. (what kind of ad, advertised by whom, details of offer, air, category,etc). The OP deliberately skirted any such requests and continued to blame Seabourn based on unproven generalizations only and got confrontational when others asked pointed, logical questions. Others jumped in and the personal attacks escalated.
Yes, the thread was closed, but your rendering of the facts is incorrect.
Go back and read post #158 :

"Originally Posted by Host Dan
Like I said- may we not attack each other and stay on the topic at hand? Please?

Host Dan

PS I do NOT wish to close this thread...


IMO, it's over. The OP had her initial issue addressed by Seabourn, dozens expressed opinions and now the OP has to make a choice. Case closed.
So Close the thread too, Host Dan,...please, close it. "

The facts: Host Dan threatened to close the thread as it veered off topic amid personal attacks. A member ,NEOPHYTUS, who you characterize as a plant or travel agent opined that the issue was addressed by Seabourn and pleaded with Host Dan to close the thread, as the attacks were apparently elevated. Host Dan did not close the thread immediately, but only after two pages of postings consisting mostly of personal attacks and by another request of your so designated Seabourn mole.
Further, to wage a year's salary that a CC poster "was either a travel agent or affiliated with Seabourn in some way", is financial folly. I would hope you use better judgement with your investment picks and betting choices.

Trackypup July 23rd, 2011 02:49 PM

Hmmm what is it about a little Seabourn criticism that brings new posters out of the woodwork? Coincidence? I think not.:rolleyes:

Paul Motter July 24th, 2011 01:27 PM

I have just one comment...

At CruiseMates we don't close threads just because there are critical of a cruise line.

You are jumping to a lot of conclusions about me - that I am one of the flock of sheep who are at the beck & call of the cruise lines to toe the line and only say good things.

"A cruise line never does anything wrong"

"A cruise line has the right to set any policy it wishes and if the customer doesn't like they can go somewhere else."

I never saw it disputed that this cusomer paid in full for a cruise at the advertised price, and that Seabourn eventually came along and said
"sorry, we made a mistake, you owe us more money."

That alone is just plain bad policy - as so many people stated in that thread.

I disagree that people were getting off track with personal arguments and that thread needed to be closed. They were arguing, but it was on topic and fully worthy of debate. I only saw a large group of people who objected to what had been done by Seabourn and another group who were saying the cruise line had the right to do what they did.

To me that is clearly an unresolved issue - and that means the thread demands to remain open until the situation is resolved - unless of course certain people prefer the situation just get swept under the rug.

GrannyLorr July 24th, 2011 04:53 PM

Quote: To me that is clearly an unresolved issue - and that means the thread demands to remain open until the situation is resolved - unless of course certain people prefer the situation just get swept under the rug. __________________

But we all know that the "correct way" of running a "Critic" forum, is NOT the way its done on CC!! The people in charge are so corrupt its ridiculous. Its either "their way or the highway"........ some of the "old" members are so downright rude to new people, its a wonder anyone new ever even tries Seabourn! I have seen many threads closed on the whim of the Host....I have often pointed out, that as long as people are still talking about the subject, they must still be interested, so it shouldnt be closed, it shouldnt be the decision of ONE numbnut to close a discussion....when they lose interest or its resolved, then close it....

Of course I have no idea what the truth was in that particular story....and neither does anyone else reading that thread. None of us were there, or saw or heard what Seabourn or the TA said or did. We "read" that Seabourn offered to pay certain things....we "read" that the TA spent a long time on a conference call......we really KNOW nothing of the sort. NONE of us "saw" the original advertisement....actually the way I read it, didnt really sound like an "advertisement" to me, simply that data base thingy that TA's use.....sorry dont know what its called. So the way "I read it", seems more like the TA stuffed up and was trying to pass the buck....but as I said NONE of us really know the truth!

Iamboatman July 24th, 2011 07:47 PM

I really find this thread sad; yes, "sad".

There is so much misinformation here...almost as if one was trying to create controversy in order to create readership or an article.

This is a fact: Seabourn does not have a "plant". In fact, if Seabourn has a weakness in all of this it is its failure to engage the threads in order to stop the insanity. I was posting as Longago because Seabourn is so hands off (which is in my opinion is a serious flaw...because this sort of garbage results).

Paul may want a free cruise, or a call from Rick Meadows, but to claim that Seabourn is involved in this travesty is, in and of itself, a travesty. or not, it is in my opinion a shame. I have not commented on a number of mistatements made by Paul in the past, but this is so over-the-top. Why undercut oneself?

I think this entire thread is just shameful. But then again, what the heck would I know.

Paul Motter July 24th, 2011 08:17 PM

For your information - Iam...

Your insulting post is exactly why you are no longer around here.

The contention that all I care about is a "free cruise" is as ludicrous as it is boring. The truth is I do not care to sail on Seabourn except purely on a professional basis so I can cover it for this web site as every other cruise line is represented.

If all I wanted was a "free cruise" on any luxury cruise ship I can show you invitations from Crystal, Seadream, Uniworld, Silversea, Oceania, Azamara and just about any cruise line you can think of. And I am refering to invitations I have received in the last six months alone.

To be honest with you, and I am only bringing this up because of your rude insinutaions that free cruises are all I care about - of all the cruise lines and especially the luxury ones Seabourn would be the LAST cruise line I would ever choose to take a cruise upon - and I will tell you why.

I find small ships to be boring - especially when the primary attraction is food and wine. I don't find gluttony to be that appealing, and that seems to be the main reason why people tout Seabourn the most. I find their itineraries to be the least appealing of all the "luxury" ships BY FAR because they have the most days at sea, and to me the only difference between a day at sea on a tiny ship and a prison is the food is better.

That is the truth - but I never would have said that in public except for your rude and spurious allegations. I could say more about the kind of person who say such a thing about a colleague as you just said about me as a professional - but I don't come into these message boards to argue, I come here to inform readers about cruising.

Paul Motter July 24th, 2011 08:24 PM

Furthermore - as to whether he was a "plant" or not - as far as I am concerned whether ore not his presense was directly the result of Seabourn's action or not is not material. Either way - he was a "rube." aka a "straight man" pretending not to have an agenda but as I said I would bet you a year's alary he was some kind of travel agent or someone else involved with making money off of Seabourn's reputation.

I see no difference - he was practically a lone voice in a sea of outrage, and his "suggestion" that CC should lose the thread was the one they chose to take seriously.

Sheesh - how obvious does the writing on the wall have to be? It is just amazing what people will allow to have rammed down their throats and still keep coming back.

Iamboatman July 24th, 2011 08:29 PM

I am not sure why the meltdown, but Paul please be honest...Seriously, be honest.

I quit being a moderator here because you refused to stop one poster from denigrating the luxury forums and I would not allow you or CruiseMates to hurt my reputation. You were not part of MY DECISION, but rather part of the reason for my decision.

Clearly you are not one who understands or appreciates the luxury cruise market. That is not a criticism, but a fact...just like I am not an expert on much of anything Princess or Carnival.

Your comment about gluttony is exactly why you are not qualified to comment on Seabourn or any other luxury line. You obviously missed the posts and articles on why slapping large slabs of meat on a plate is NOT luxury and that a small, elegantly prepared, delicious filet mignon is. (It also reminds me of one wealthy person who went on a Princess cruise as his first. He said he loved the concept but the buffet was like a feeding well as the guy on a Celebrity cruise I was on that ordered 20+ shrimp cocktails at one seating.)

You raise the issue of Rick Meadows not getting back to you and used this thread to vent your spleen. So why now complain?

And if you goal is to "inform" as you say, then why spew the crap you have in this thread? I find no "information"...and I am not an idiot.

diebroke July 24th, 2011 11:51 PM

So, I am with Granny on this issue. We don’t know the truth, only hearsay, & to become so emotional over hearsay seems bizarre to me. I’d rather risk my blood pressure worrying about our dysfunctional U.S. Congress & the immorality of what’s going on there. (Or even the fact that my favorite soccer team had a horrible penalty call against it on Sat. night.) The ad issue got beat to death without many facts. There are so many more “proven” injustices in the world to worry about that this one just doesn’t make my list. Most of us can’t handle a list of outrages as long as “Iam’s” and perhaps Paul’s. If we did, most of us would be dead, even with modern day drugs to manage blood pressure.

Paul, I am so sorry Rick Meadows didn’t return your request for an interview. He should have said yes or no. Even my 6 year old grandson got a response to the letter he wrote to President Obama. Perhaps I should cancel my upcoming Seabourn cruise in sympathy to your outrage. I’ll think about it. If it makes you feel any better, I have been ignored by a lot of people more important than Rick Meadows.

I must confess that I am attracted to Seabourn by its food and wine (also service.) By your definition, I guess that makes me a glutton. I have never been called that (to my face) before. At first, I was offended, but now, I think I’m o.k. with it, & believe it might reflect more on you than on me. I am feeling no guilt over being called a glutton and will drink & eat to your health on my upcoming Seabourn cruise as I destroy my own health by my gluttonous behavior. Granny is on the same cruise. I am sure she will be eating salad & drinking water and therefore, not a glutton even though she is on Seabourn.

Finally, I congratulate you for not closing this thread or banning Eric (so far.)

Kuki July 25th, 2011 12:53 AM


as well as the guy on a Celebrity cruise I was on that ordered 20+ shrimp cocktails at one seating.)
On a luxury ship it would be the guy who ordered 20+ shrimp cocktails at one seating, unlike the guy on Celebrity that ordered.... ;)

GrannyLorr July 25th, 2011 01:31 AM

We all have completely different ideas of what we think is great on a cruise, or on any other holiday! Isnt that the same in all aspects of life? All the things Paul dislikes about Seabourn....I love....and vice versa....and that is fine! No, Im not a fact I eat very little...not that anyone would believe that! :( The servings on Seabourn are quite dinner there are 5 courses....appetiser....soup.....salad....main.... desert and or cheese. I usally manage half the appetiser...all the salad (see Diebroke!! :-P) half the main....and try very hard to eat ALL the desert! I am also not a foodie or a wine snob.....actually I am probably the most "normal" person on Seabourn!! :mrgreen: I am probably also not the typical "luxury" traveller...we go camping usually once a month....I have been all over the USA on Greyhound......also on trip ever was Trans Mongolian with no shower for days on end and a stainless steel loo at the end of the carriage!
Then again I LOVE Seabourn....LOVE lots and lots of sea days...probably because I am lazy I enjoy doing NOTHING!! I am sure there are some people onboard like Paul has described.....there is also a fair share of dreadful snobs, but they are easy to shock into silence!
I have never seen any sign of gluttony on Seabourn.....only been on one mass market and I certainly saw gluttony on that in the buffet!

robh July 25th, 2011 02:11 AM

This is quite the reading and I at least learnt that Paul is being treated much like any individual by Seabourne for their reasons though one would think a good PR would respond.
The same address on mailings by two cruiselines was informative
Pot shots though, that surprised me , off the mark IMHO.

I look for sea days regardlee if a large or small ship as I really do not want to be on the go every day we reach a port. SO , please a 14 day cruise, give me at least four sea days or 28 day coming up, I'll have about 12 sea days and just being served dinner and choices is fine with me, not a food nut.

GrannyLorr July 25th, 2011 06:43 AM

we have 27 sea days on our next cruise....and I am going to enjoy everyone of them!:mrgreen:

Paul Motter July 25th, 2011 08:25 PM

Granny - I sincerely hope you DO enjoy every single one of them.

GrannyLorr July 28th, 2011 07:26 PM

The thread from CC which raised its ugly head in here, and caused quite a lot of angst....has been resurected in there under a slightly different name. The original thread was padlocked at the whim of "who knows who" but is now back and no sign yet of it being locked........seems a wee bit strange that it wasnt appropriate to keep it going last week, but this week its ok?? Again lots of inaccuracies (sp???) One stated the original poster saw the ad in a UK newspaper....absolutely innacurate.....and now a very interesting post.....

Quote: "Tilly does seem to have problems concerning her financial dealings with cruise lines. Seabourn currently, HAL( Seattle) circa April 2010 and Silversea circa August 2009. How unlucky can you get. Let's hope for an amicable outcome this time."

No idea if that is true, but looks like "someone" has done a bit of research!! Puts a slightly different light on the subject?

Paul Motter July 28th, 2011 07:43 PM

You know Granny...

It is funny, but it just absolutely makes me insane when anyone takes a message board posting and turns it into a private matter. Looking up this woman's past to try to discredit her just because she writes negative things about a cruise line is beyond the pale to me - it is lunatic behavior in my opinion.

To me the cyberworld is a place where people are known to rant, say what's on their mind and give opinions - it's supposed to be whooly, fuzzy, exagerated. Its "Speaker's Corner" in London.

But forums are NOT summit conferences and they certainly are not a trial where someone is being judged! ("Your honor, here is my evidence...")

People who do THAT stuff have no business in message boards. They're frankly dangerous to the other people who visit it.

These people who just don't understand that there is a line between cyber world and real world and will do unbelievably malicious things to people they don't even know -That sort of behavior just awes me.

I don't know about this lady on CC - but I hope they keep the thread open long enough to get to the truth of the matter. Maybe they are letting this one run because they saw that closing down a thread before it was determined one way or the other just plain looks bad.

Paul Motter July 29th, 2011 04:11 PM

I went looking for that thread on CC and could not find it - it is deleted?
I am not very familar with CC so I wouldn't really know how to find it.

Oh wait - I just saw something called "Tilly's Problems?"

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