The Trials of Muhammad Ali

[venice]

Excellent film on PBS last night focusing on Ali's greatest fight which took place outside the ring which was decided by the Supreme Court....When I was in College, he spoke on campus one week after the Supreme Court decision and I met him. I also attended the 1st Frazier fight in Madison Square Garden which was incredible

Anyone over 60, has had a ringside seat and a strong opinion regarding A li..regardless of how one feels about him, he stood by his convictions. which was finally recognized by Ali being awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom (presented by Bush. 43)and lighting the Olympic Torch in the 96 Olympics (which makes a statement on how the Country changed during that time span)

In college, I remember the student demonstration on campus the night Ali spoke in the student union...the irony of course is that 99% of the males protesting had a student exception draft status and the KKK burnt a cross in the student square that midnight

I am curious if cable tv (FOX, CNN, MSNBC)and conservative right wing radio will weight in on the film the next few days

[Manuel]

Muhammad Ali { aka Cassius Clay ), was a rich draft dodger. If he had been poor he would have gone to jail.


TM

[AR]

Originally Posted by Manuel

Muhammad Ali { aka Cassius Clay ), was a rich draft dodger. If he had been poor he would have gone to jail.


TM

1) Why is the fact that he changed his name relevant to this conversation? Just curious.

2) If he'd been poor he'd probably either have gone to war or to Canada.

3) There is no dishonor in having refused to serve in a war that is morally bankrupt. You're still allowed to have a conscience, and for you to imply that people who refused to serve in Vietnam were cowards is reprehensible. They may well have been heroes nearly as much as those on a black granite wall six miles from where I'm sitting. It is wrong to condemn them just as it was wrong to condemn the GIs returning from Vietnam (which so many did, to their shame).

Young people who felt the same way about Iraq and about Afghanistan at least were given the choice of not joining. And nobody's calling them out for it.

[venice]

If I recall correctly, Manuel served in Vietnam so I respect his opinion regarding Clay/Ali....I turned 18 in 1969, registered for the draft as 1A, and was placed in the lottery and was not called...I remember being on campus and watching upper classmen who had student deferrments protest Ali's being on campus and thinking what hypocrites they were

I rewatched the piece last weekend and it again reminded me how bitterly divided the Country was at that time along racial, class, economic,political ,the war.,religion..45 years later,it appears we have not learned much

Ali was the lightning rod...we now have the "luxury" of looking backwards to frame Ali's legacy in the context of those volatile times

Perhaps the better discussion would be in todays era of social media and 24 hour bitter saturation and hypocrisy on the part of cable FOX/CNN/MSNBC and right wing conservative talk radio...how Ali would be portrayed if he took the same stance in light of a post 911 World

[Manuel]

Originally Posted by AR

1)

3) There is no dishonor in having refused to serve in a war that is morally bankrupt. You're still allowed to have a conscience, and for you to imply that people who refused to serve in Vietnam were cowards is reprehensible. They may well have been heroes nearly as much as those on a black granite wall six miles from where I'm sitting. It is wrong to condemn them just as it was wrong to condemn the GIs returning from Vietnam (which so many did, to their shame).

I did say that anyone was a coward, I simply said that being rich then as well as today allows you to skirt the law.




TM

[venice]

Manuel...I agree with you 100%, ..there is an unfair application of the law based upon how rich one is or how rich your family is and the ability to hire legal representation to work the system...

Vietnam was a classic example of your premise...Ali had just won the heaveyweight crown when he made his stand and at that point was not cash rich, because the Louisville 8 consortium (rich White businessmen who were on the verge of making a fortune from their "investment") were enraged when Ali converted... they had made arrangements behind the scenes for Ali to enlist, and follow the Joe Louis route and never have to go to Vietnam and fight and do "exhibitions", while they put the title on "ice" to protect their "investment"...the militant Black Muslims wanted to exploit Ali for their agenda and financial gain

Ali surprised both sides ..he went on his speaking tour to pay his legal cost and feed his family, prevailed in the SCOTUS in part because he could afford a high price legal team, but at the expense of losing a fortune and boxing skills in the prime earning power...

All for his principals (whether you agree with them or not) which is why I think he is so revered today

[zydecocruiser]

or a senator's son.

[bonnyprincecharlie]

Originally Posted by zydecocruiser

or a senator's son.

Yes and remember two of the presidents who became commanders in chiefs but missed action on the front line.