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Old February 8th, 2010, 04:26 AM
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Default Query regarding an Option for Formal Nights

I hear that men who do not own, nor wish to purchase, a tux for formal nights are permitted to wear dark suits with ties. My question turns on an upcoming cruise (our first) on Holland America -- seven nights with two of them formal.

I am an Anglican priest, and my "normal" public wear goes by the name "clericals." They are black slacks (not jean material); mine are wool and have pleated fronts; a special shirt -- long or short sleeved depending on the season, with buttons covered by a strip of fabric; a "dog collar" as one is accustomed to seeing on Roman priests and most Lutheran priests as well; and a black coat. So, I'm entirely clad in black, no tie, but a clerical collar.

I expect cruise lines don't get overrun by Christian priests of any communion who would ordinarily dress this way (Roman, Anglican, Lutheran, many Presbyterians, and the Orthodox). But, perhaps some of you have observed someone dressed this way and noted how it was "received" by the ship staff.

The only thing more formal is a black cassock. And, yes, THAT would really stick out, and possibly be a tad warmish (it's 100 pecent wool), not to mention taking a lot of room in the luggage.

Any thoughts?
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Old February 8th, 2010, 10:21 AM
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Hi Riv,
I think you will be fine in what you described for any formal evening onboard, go for it and enjoy!
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Old February 8th, 2010, 10:26 AM
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You will be more than well dressed. There are a number of priests and ministers who wear their clericals on formal night. A Methodist minister I know wears a shirt and "dog collar", no jacket, on casual nights.

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Old February 8th, 2010, 10:01 PM
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If you want people to know you're a priest or if you're more comfortable, wear the collar, but I'd do without the wool "anything"! You'll have a heat stroke !

IMHO, the ship's staff really don't pay attention to what you're wearing, but how you act.

You'll also be fine dressing as a "civilian" if you want !

I'm about as far away from an Anglican priest as I could be, but I'd really like to meet you on a cruise! The only Anglican connection I have is a Brit Com TV show with a woman as the priest, the name of which that I can't think of now . Do you know what I'm thinking of?
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Old February 9th, 2010, 01:36 AM
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Default Anglican priests in and out of uniform

Hi, Fern,

Yes, I do know about the British series you're thinking of. I've run across it when I've grazed through Netflix's offerings, though I've never ordered it. My wife and I find that there are a few TV series we've enjoyed through Netflix because they are not sliced up with commercials. Viewed that way, they zip right along, with a pacing that's far faster than they appear to have when the commercials interrupt.

The wool cassock wouldn't be too much of a bother. It's a very light wool, much less "weighty" to the touch and scales than denim. It drapes and moves like a dream. I hardly know I'm wearing it. And, I've worn it in Texas summers, in Gulf humidity (a diocesan clericus in Houston), and it never felt hot.

But, I'd rather not wear it, since the garment itself -- though way over on the formal end of clerical clothing worn outside a worship service -- is still so rarely seen among Americans that it would likely register on their radars as costume, not a uniform. And, they might not even recognize it for the garment it is, if they've never seen someone dressed in one. Ordinarily, the clerical collar -- visible in a cassock -- would be a good signal. But, as you'll notice in my avatar, I have a lengthy, curly beard which covers the clerical collar completely. It's virtually invisible unless I tilt my head way back. I'm wearing a Roman-style clerical collar in that avatar, but it's well masked by the beard.

My wife is pondering if she should dress for one formal night totally in black -- shoes, hose, skirt, and high necked blouse (like a turtle neck) all in black. And, therefore, all the better to flash the diamond necklace and earrings I gave her for Christmas. I've seen her in that outfit, and the outfit really puts the jewels on high-beam! Plus, we'd match -- her glory in platinum and diamonds, my glory in her on my arm, along with my white beard, eyebrows, and hair. Satorially, we'd be a comprehensive match.

I just hope the Maître d' doesn't look at my feet. The shoes will be inky black, but they're going to be New Balance walking shoes, which my GP insists I wear for the various kinds of support built into those shoes, which support he insists I need. A second opinion from a podiatrst agrees. So, I'm counting on my wife's dazzling the Maître d' when we present ourselves for inspection.

I will appear out of uniform occasionally while on the cruise -- when visiting the sauna and/or pool, at the beach, or when my bride and I sally forth to wander through the shops off the ship. But for just toodling round the ship, clerical clothing is simple -- no decisions, and no one wonders why you're wearing the same thing all the time. That's the blessing of uniforms generally.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 12:38 PM
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It sounds like you will be fine, Riv. No one is likely to inspect your shoes that closely. (had a quick visual of a maitre d' on his hands and knees checking out the appropriateness of your shoes. ) And, I have seen many men of the cloth in clericals on cruises. Just be prepared for those who assume you are on "duty", not on vacation. HAL does actually hire religious leaders at times. On one HAL cruise, the 14 days covered the entire week of Hanukkah, and they had a fabulous Orthodox rabbi on board plus a Catholic priest and protestant minister, since it was very close to Christmas. Some great conversation ensued, but I got to know the rabbi and his wife on a tour and they were rarely able to just relax and enjoy themselves.
Your wife's idea sounds fabulous for a formal night. You will undoubtedly look stunning together.
Marty
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Old February 9th, 2010, 08:51 PM
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Riv, I found the name of the BritCom, it's The Vicar of Dilby with Dawn French.

I think you and your wife will be stunning on Formal Night! The idea of the maitre d' checking your shoes is really funny (thanks for the visual, Marty).

It is nice that you can just pop on black & a collar and be dressed ! As you well know, it's not that easy for us females!

Like Marty, we were on a cruise when Christmas and Hannukah were at the same time. There was a Rabbi, a priest and several minister's (sounds like the beginning of a joke, huh ?) onboard. We all had a wonderful time celebrating with each other!

I hope you'll post some pictures of formal night when you return,
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Old February 9th, 2010, 09:20 PM
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Rivilian,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
I hear that men who do not own, nor wish to purchase, a tux for formal nights are permitted to wear dark suits with ties. My question turns on an upcoming cruise (our first) on Holland America -- seven nights with two of them formal.

I am an Anglican priest, and my "normal" public wear goes by the name "clericals." They are black slacks (not jean material); mine are wool and have pleated fronts; a special shirt -- long or short sleeved depending on the season, with buttons covered by a strip of fabric; a "dog collar" as one is accustomed to seeing on Roman priests and most Lutheran priests as well; and a black coat. So, I'm entirely clad in black, no tie, but a clerical collar.

I expect cruise lines don't get overrun by Christian priests of any communion who would ordinarily dress this way (Roman, Anglican, Lutheran, many Presbyterians, and the Orthodox). But, perhaps some of you have observed someone dressed this way and noted how it was "received" by the ship staff.

The only thing more formal is a black cassock. And, yes, THAT would really stick out, and possibly be a tad warmish (it's 100 pecent wool), not to mention taking a lot of room in the luggage.

Any thoughts?
The clerical costume ("clericals") of your denomination is always proper attire for a "formal" (either "black tie" or "white tie") event.

If you have clerical shirts with French cuffs, that would be best.

As to reaction of the crew, I doubt that there would be a problem. I would be more concerned about reaction of other passengers. It seems that there are always a few who can't resist telling their problems to a "man of the cloth" even when he is on vacation. If you want to avoid that, the alternative would be to rent formalwear (which costs about $100 US). If you arrange it through the cruise line, you just submit your sizes and selections in advance, and the cruise line will deliver it to your cabin on embarkation day. At disembarkation, you just leave it in your cabin for pick-up.

Norm.
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Old February 10th, 2010, 02:56 PM
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Norm,
You and I are more in agreement with each other these days, but French cuffs?!? I doubt anyone would notice. Besides, telling women the best way to camouflage bumps and lumps is presumptious in my opinion (trust that we women have tried every way possible and know what works best for us), but to advice clergy on what shirt to wear blew my mind.

Marty
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Old February 25th, 2010, 07:47 PM
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Marty,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
You and I are more in agreement with each other these days, but French cuffs?!? I doubt anyone would notice. Besides, telling women the best way to camouflage bumps and lumps is presumptious in my opinion (trust that we women have tried every way possible and know what works best for us), but to advice clergy on what shirt to wear blew my mind.
Well, actually, I was not talking about camoflaging "bumps and lumps" but rather about diminishing the visual impact of... well, to be blunt, blubber.

That said, I actually did meet a gal who looks fab in pants recently -- but when she wears a dress, it's size zero!

But yes, I have seen clergy wearing shirts with clerical collars and French cuffs.

Norm.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17 View Post
Marty,



Well, actually, I was not talking about camoflaging "bumps and lumps" but rather about diminishing the visual impact of... well, to be blunt, blubber.

That said, I actually did meet a gal who looks fab in pants recently -- but when she wears a dress, it's size zero!

But yes, I have seen clergy wearing shirts with clerical collars and French cuffs.

Norm.
Your arrogance is astounding. Maybe next you can start telling us gals how many bags to put over our heads when we cruise?
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Old May 26th, 2010, 07:13 PM
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Trackypup,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
Your arrogance is astounding.
Arrogance or brazen honesty?

Yes, honesty can sometimes be brutal. One friend of mine is fond of remarking that the truth will set us free, but first will make us totally miserable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Maybe next you can start telling us gals how many bags to put over our heads when we cruise?
Who ever suggested putting bags over your heads? Rather, we guys would like to see you gals looking your absolute best!

Norm.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 07:20 PM
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There's honesty and then there's just down right gauche, I found your post to be the latter.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 07:38 PM
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I thought it was honest & down to earth, most dress to cover up any flaws we have or think we have.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnthed0g View Post
I thought it was honest & down to earth, most dress to cover up any flaws we have or think we have.
Down to earth? Interesting.... I don't find any of the comments below down to earth but to each his own.

"In my experience, skirts and dresses that fit properly generally will diminish the visual impact of various bulges while pants will emphasize bulges. Ladies who have perfectly flat abs and a well-shaped tush can get away with pants. The rest of the ladies do well to consider other options."
"Seriously, for ladies who have any "bulges" that are, ah, less than attactive, a skirt or a dress will diminish the visual impact in ways that pants cannot."
"Well, actually, I was not talking about camoflaging "bumps and lumps" but rather about diminishing the visual impact of... well, to be blunt, blubber."
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Old May 27th, 2010, 10:17 AM
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ok people, thats enough, we seem to have lost track of the original thread
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