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  #1 (permalink)  
Old April 27th, 2004, 02:13 PM
Dartoid
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Default What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

At the risk of having my "Internet Service Providor notified... and having (my) access to the Internet terminated," let me just say that I was truely surprised to read Jim Bragg's "announcement" a couple of days ago -- reminding (warning and threatening) those who frequent this forum that "it is NOT a place to "discuss illegal activities, curse or make displays of disprespect for others or immature behavior." Bragg pointed out that "these are the rules -- to be found in the Terms of Service" -- and ended by reminding us all that "respect is a great part of maturity."

Well, well, well... nicely said (and I truely mean no disrespect, especially to the Founding Fathers, the Constitution and First Ammendment and years of hard-fought case law concerning censorship and just plain old civil disobedience -- or to you, personally, Jim) but it appears that you truely are, as you say, tongue-in-cheek, in a "confused state of mind."

Respect for something just because it is "required" is no more a sign of maturity than it is consistent with the very principles upon which America was formed.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

I believe Jim just wants to see this message board continue with a high level of respect and proper subject matters. I don't think he would have a problem with people dicussing these issues somewhere else. Whats so wrong with him having these standards, those who choose not to have similar standards just need to take their thoughts elsewhere, thats all he's suggesting. Thanks Jim
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Old April 27th, 2004, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

This is a forum for teens who enjoy cruising, not a place to brag about getting drunk and throwing deck chairs over the sides of cruise ships. Firstly, since this is a TEEN message board, drinking is ILLEGAL for us. Things like drinking and such can be discussed on another message board.

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Old April 27th, 2004, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

The issues are and have been for years and years: who is to set the "standards" and who is to decide what is "proper". To suggest, even for a moment, that "those who choose not to have similar standards (should just) take their thoughts elsewhere" is... well, I won't even say what it is.

What I will say that essentially the same words were once used by those who opposed women's sufferage, supported slavery, apartheid and Nazi Germany. "Curse words" such as those Jim Bragg bans are the only words to describe such philosophies. Fighting against what was legal (discussing something that was illegal -- something else that Jim Bragg bans) was what LED to women gaining the right to vote, freedom for African Americans and on and on and on.

Should those who disagree with what is going on in Iraq just go elsewhere? Should those who opposed the war in Vietnam have just gone elsewhere? Should those (such as I have submitted previously) who think the cruise industry has an obligation to respect the ocean and life within it go elsewhere?

I just don't think so. "Standards" and what is "proper" change and evolve in such a way that benefitis the majority but respects the minority only in an open society. Jim Bragg's rules are autocratic and stifling.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Yes, in the Constitution is does state your right of Freedom of Speech, but that right no longer applies when you Infringe on other peoples rights! and talking about illegal activities, and using bad language offends me and infringes on my rights as an American Citizen. Too many people think Freedom of Speech can justified there verbal actions, when in all actuality the Freedom of Speech has only so much power. So next time Dartoid, before you go off on another tangent about the Constitution and the Freedom of Speech, know what you talking about so you don't make your self look like a dim-witted immature adolescent, who does'nt have respect for all the other users of the internet site.


Alex


ps. If you would like to look over some Internet etiquette you can go to this website below.
http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Edu/ICG...Etiquette.html
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Old April 27th, 2004, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Tauruschick...

What is wrong, in my opinion, is for anyone to ban anyone else from discussing anything.

This is a forum in which to discuss cruise-related topics. Obviously teens drink on cruise ships and, sometimes, do silly and disrespectful things. Dangerous things. How does it follow then that nothing good is to be gained by discussing it?

Discussing illegal activities is one of the things Jim Bragg has just warned each and every one of us against doing.

I disagree with that and believe you should as well.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

With all due respect, Alex, it is not I who does not understand. Basically, as long as YOU are able to take an action that allows YOU to avoid be offended by something in the public domain MY rights to place something in the public dfomain not infringing on yours.

I can publish Hustler magazine. You can choose not to buy it.

I can post curse wrods and you can chose not to read them.

I can (or should be able to, in my opinion) post a message in a forum such as this saying, in effect: let people discuss issues that matter to them as long as they are germane to the forum and you can choose to not read, or disagree.

Should I post a message that suggests we all gang together, take specific action to actually do something illegal -- THAT is when I am infringing on your rights.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Hey, Dartoid
have any positive inspiring quotes??
That would be a great post for you to respond to or is it too mellow for your liking?
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Old April 27th, 2004, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT! I think that you need to go back to 5th grade and study you American history! Because this i basically a public place, just like a mall, and you wouldn't get away with some stuff that you talk about there!

Alex
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Old April 27th, 2004, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

You need to pay attention in US History class and study the Constitution a little closer. When it speaks of "Free Speech" it states that CONGRESS shall make no laws limiting the right to free speech. Nothing was said or implied about private companies which Cruisemates is. As this site is paid for by us we get to make the decision as to what is and is not allowed. "Free Speech" is not what you think at all.
Jim
Community Staff Leader

PS I maintained a 4.0 GPA in all my Law courses in college. In addition I served OUR country from 1968 until 1975 in the US Navy and again served my community as a police officer after that until I retired, all of which I was not only sworn to uphold the Constitution but did so to the best of my ability.

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Old April 27th, 2004, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

I think dartoid has a point

Hey dartoid way to put ur words to use. Well written could not have said it better myself!!
Well i would have said but prolly all mean and stuff but ya i agree if u have a problem w/ something then dont read it!!!

Much love
Kristy
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Old April 27th, 2004, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Freedom of speech is fine as long as it's not hurting anyone else...

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Old April 27th, 2004, 05:39 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy...

I don't disagree with your intpretation at all. CruiseMates is, of course, a private company. You can advocate anything you wish. I just disagree with the limits you have placed on the discussion. I think, in what is advertised as a forum for open discussion of cruise ship-related matters, it is indeed reasonable to discuss teenage drinking. Illegal as it may be, it's a reality. I did not call anybody names (as Alex did, in violation of your policies, by calling me a "dim-witted, immature, adolescent"). I can live with that; it's his right, however uninformed his opinions on the issues I have raised may be. I didn't advocate anything illegal. I wrote to make a point. And I appreciate your letting the discussion continue, rather than to just issue another warning or delete the thread. I think we would both agree that there is value in the discussion.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

There is nothing right about teen drinking. All these messages about teens bragging about getting drunk are awful. My parents let me have one glass of wine once in a very long while. I have no wish for anything more, and I don't know why anyone else would either, just trying to diplay their foolishness and ignorance.
Kerry in Columbus, GA
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Old April 27th, 2004, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Well, you don't seem to have much respect for me as nobody calls me "Jimmy" except my Mother who is now deceased. Rather simple taunt really and not all that clever. Also, while you may disagree with the limitations that we place here, they are here nevertheless and that is just the way it is. Learn to accept the rules others impose when you choose to play in their backyard. If you wish to set up your own website and pay for it, then you can make the terms of service fit your ideals. Profanity and the encouragement of illegal activities will not be allowed on this website.
Jim
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Old April 27th, 2004, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

not for recreation or anything....to have a good time, right kerry? im fully aware there are other means by which to have fun but its a variance which some people choose to exercise.

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Old April 27th, 2004, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

I have to agree with the above posters. This forum is to discuss related topics regarding cruising...With all the bad and/or illegal thing being brought up recently, it shouldn't be said. First off, you guys shouldn't be doing it; second: Why are you guys telling everyone...hmm guess you guys don't mind being caught?

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Old April 27th, 2004, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

well wayne, my mom was aware of some of the drinking in which i partook, not that she would come on the teen part of this site, if at all.

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Old April 27th, 2004, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

oh baby.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Dartoid
Why don't you please find another message board to sound off on and please leave us and Jim alone. We respect your opinion but now would like to wish you well and ask you to let us ALONE.
Thanks
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Old April 27th, 2004, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Mikey, I believe Dartoid has every right to be here as you and I do. By the way, you have a speck of brown on your nose...yep, right there.
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Old April 27th, 2004, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Don't catch the "nose " thing, what are you trying to say?
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Old April 27th, 2004, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

i believe she is referring to brown nosing, or sucking up to the authorities on this site, i believe that you're not the brightest light on the christmas tree, are you?

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Old April 27th, 2004, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Thats sooo funny, yep I was trying to suck up to the authorities, right Dartoid
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Old April 27th, 2004, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

i can pretty much guarantee you arent going to get your internet shut off but he has the authority to ban you from this site im sure, hes an admin
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Old April 27th, 2004, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Ahem, Mikey, I was the one who said it, not Dartoid. Look boy, look! There's the conversation. Now follow it!
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Old April 27th, 2004, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

My philoosophy is~

"I'll say what I damn want to say."


'Nough said.

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Old April 28th, 2004, 08:02 AM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

I would also say that I agree with Jim. They are not trying to stifle anyone, but please remember that this is a TEEN forum. Yes, some of you may be in your late teens, say maybe 18 or 19. However, there are also a number of teens on this board who are in their EARLY teens. Such as 12 or 13 year olds. What is "appropriate" for a 19 year old may not always be appropriate for a 13 year old. I know most teens think that adults just nag them and make rules for the fun of it, but remember...we've been there and done that already and are just looking out for your safety and well-being. Yes, I am a parent and my son posts to these boards. I believe in being familiar with what he's doing on these boards so I pop in from time to time. He's okay with that. I am surprised by the number of posts I've read about teens getting drunk, and also the animosity that I have seen on these boards by people attacking other posters. My son asked a very valid question about his cruise and instead of getting helpful answers, a few people sparked a heated bash against each other because of something that someone wrote in response. (Which was not a helpful answer, but instead a taunt to my son.) Pretty rude... Anyway, just my two cents. Thanks Jim, for trying to get this board back under control.
Jane
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Old April 28th, 2004, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Ok there is a difference between having your freedom of speech...for somethign that is right..and just being a immature idiot and disrespecting people that are older than you...Jim i think seeing whats hes posted...is a adult who has seen alot...and Jim is jsut looking out for our best interests....i coudl be wrong.....but you need to show people respect, while having a open mind as to what people are saying.....BUt not disrespecting anyone in the process by being cocky....where i live i grew up with you respect people older than you and listen to what they have to say if you dont agree wiht it you basically can say your part but not disrespect them in the process!
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Old April 28th, 2004, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: What About Freedom of Speech, Jimmy?

Brit, I second that....

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