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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:39 PM
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Default OT : TSA Security

Since many people have to take a flight in order to get to & from a cruise port, I figured I'd see what your opinions are on the semi-new TSA security procedures. Do you think the new scanners are an invasion of privacy ? Do you consider the pat downs a form of sexual assault ? Would you rather just go through the full body scanner than receive the pat down ? Would this ever stop you from flying ?

I personally don't see why people oppose the full body scanners. The agents see thousands and thousands of people everyday, I highly doubt they're sitting there studying your figure. I'd rather be safe than sorry. I'd also rather stand in a machine for less than a minute than be touched by a stranger. I went through the full body scanner (I believe in Baltimore, could be wrong) and I didn't even think twice about it. No biggie for me.

So, what does everyone think ?
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Old November 19th, 2010, 06:57 PM
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See existing thread about pat downs etc??
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Old November 19th, 2010, 07:14 PM
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@johnthed0g - this thread is in the Teen forum? Our views might be slightly different than the adult perspective on the issue.

And answering the topic at hand:
Do I mind taking a full-body scan, to some degree. I would much rather have a biometrics system such as the one that they have in place for international travel that can identify problem travelers and/or separate the long term safe travelers, using the full-body scan only as a secondary or tertiary line of defense. Also, running through radiation which has not had any tests run for short or long term effects seems like less than a good idea.

I sympathize with pilots - these scanners use radiation and exposure 2-3+ times a day (assuming they leave the airport from time to time) can be detrimental to health. The way the TSA puts it, they want to scan EVERYONE. I am particularly against scanning flight crew because if the flight crew really wanted to kill people, all they have to do is push down on the stick and down the airplane; it's really pointless to have them run through security over and over.

Yes, a pat-down is sexual assault; I don't need to have TSA touching me in certain places - lets save that for significant others and the likes.

Airports are getting fed up with TSA as well... Orlando Sanford has announced they are considering switching to a private security firm.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 07:25 PM
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I don't really mind the full body scanners, I went through one the last time I was at the airport and it really wasn't that bad. I have also gotten the pat down when I fractured my fingers and didn't think that it was that bad either. It was a little awkward and uncomfortable, but a lot of things in life are. I'd much rather be safe and a little uncomfortable then dead. Another thing that I can see being a problem with the full body scanners is that they seem to have to be recalibrated often. When I was at the airport I think it was recalibrated twice while I was in line and once right before me. That could make the lines at security even longer, which at an airport like O'Hare which is where I always fly out of, will make flying a bigger hassle. That's just my opinion though.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 07:59 PM
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Past Cruises
CCL:
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Fantasy (2/20/00)
Fascination (8/26/00) (2/18/02)
Conquest (2/20/05)
Inspiration (8/18/07)
Liberty (3/15/08.)
Dream (3/3/12)
Sensation (8/19/12)
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Sea (2/22/03)
PCL:
Golden (2/14/04)
Caribbean (8/20/05)
Crown (3/5/11)
RCI:
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Old November 19th, 2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmerali View Post
that is wrong
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Old November 19th, 2010, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Tropicalstephy View Post
that is wrong
I saw that on the evening news, it was what prompted me to start the thread. I can't imagine the humiliation this woman, and possibly other's with similar situations, had to face just to make it through airport security.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 10:13 AM
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I agree this teen section is their own and have their own views. The other thread mentioned has deteriated from a civil discussion, as will happen with adults and young adults. Like they say... opinions are like a$$holes, everyones (and every website) got one.

There is a misunderstanding/lack of knowlege on the radiation exposure involved. Below are some technical details. Do the homework.

http://blog.tsa.gov/

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/jh_apl_v1.pdf
(there are 2 studies here...one done in the 90's and one done in 2010)

http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/RadiationEmittingProductsandProcedures/SecuritySystems/ucm227201.htm#2


Bottom line you get more radiation exposure every day in normal living that you do from these scanners. That is fact.

In total, you can go thru these scanners many times throughout the year and still not reach the unsafe exposure level.

I work in a room with machines emitting x-radiation all day long and I have no problem with the scanners. I don't fear radiation - I understand it.

The report does indicate that there remains concerns about "leakage" of the radiation to the exterior of the scanner that passer-bys may be exposed to. That is the responsibility of the 3rd party surveyors who are supposed to place detectors around the area to check for excessive exposures outside the primary scan area annually or more often.

I personally oppose the pat down. The scanner should be adequate. Or, as one poster said, biometrics or what the Israelis do.

One must understand that older adults came through a time where we fought for liberties that, it seems, are slowly being taken away in the name of "safety' or "terrorism".

If you give away freedom for security you get neither.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil&Liz View Post
I agree this teen section is their own and have their own views. The other thread mentioned has deteriated from a civil discussion, as will happen with adults and young adults. Like they say... opinions are like a$$holes, everyones (and every website) got one.

There is a misunderstanding/lack of knowlege on the radiation exposure involved. Below are some technical details. Do the homework.

http://blog.tsa.gov/

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/jh_apl_v1.pdf
(there are 2 studies here...one done in the 90's and one done in 2010)

http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/RadiationEmittingProductsandProcedures/SecuritySystems/ucm227201.htm#2


Bottom line you get more radiation exposure every day in normal living that you do from these scanners. That is fact.
Thank you for the links on the radiation; I'd been, up till now, relying on the multitude of news sources available and assuming they did their reporting well. Guess not.

In any case, I still favor biometrics over constant scanning. Scan people something like once a month or once a year, then let the biometrics do their thing. Reform the whole security procedure.

I fully understand that freedoms were fought for, and are being taken in the interest of safety.. it's not right.
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CCL:
Carnivale (2/11/93)
Ecstasy (9/5/94)
Fantasy (2/20/00)
Fascination (8/26/00) (2/18/02)
Conquest (2/20/05)
Inspiration (8/18/07)
Liberty (3/15/08.)
Dream (3/3/12)
Sensation (8/19/12)
NCL:
Sea (2/22/03)
PCL:
Golden (2/14/04)
Caribbean (8/20/05)
Crown (3/5/11)
RCI:
Voyager (8/25/02)
Navigator (8/28/04)
Adventure (8/27/06)
Freedom (3/7/10)
Future
Carnival Pride (12/16/12)
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Old November 20th, 2010, 10:27 AM
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Honestly, I'm not too concerned about radiation at all. I've had too many X-Rays, MRIs, and CT Scans throughout the last year or so for the airport security radiation to be any concern to me.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil&Liz View Post
I agree this teen section is their own and have their own views. The other thread mentioned has deteriated from a civil discussion, as will happen with adults and young adults. Like they say... opinions are like a$$holes, everyones (and every website) got one.

There is a misunderstanding/lack of knowlege on the radiation exposure involved. Below are some technical details. Do the homework.

http://blog.tsa.gov/

http://www.tsa.gov/assets/pdf/jh_apl_v1.pdf
(there are 2 studies here...one done in the 90's and one done in 2010)

http://www.fda.gov/Radiation-EmittingProducts/RadiationEmittingProductsandProcedures/SecuritySystems/ucm227201.htm#2


Bottom line you get more radiation exposure every day in normal living that you do from these scanners. That is fact.

In total, you can go thru these scanners many times throughout the year and still not reach the unsafe exposure level.

I work in a room with machines emitting x-radiation all day long and I have no problem with the scanners. I don't fear radiation - I understand it.

The report does indicate that there remains concerns about "leakage" of the radiation to the exterior of the scanner that passer-bys may be exposed to. That is the responsibility of the 3rd party surveyors who are supposed to place detectors around the area to check for excessive exposures outside the primary scan area annually or more often.

I personally oppose the pat down. The scanner should be adequate. Or, as one poster said, biometrics or what the Israelis do.

One must understand that older adults came through a time where we fought for liberties that, it seems, are slowly being taken away in the name of "safety' or "terrorism".

If you give away freedom for security you get neither.
Any cites on radiation safety from non-governmental sources? Would you mind if your pregnant daughter was exposed to this radiation administered by the TSA?
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Old November 20th, 2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
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Would you mind if your pregnant daughter was exposed to this radiation administered by the TSA?
Yes I would let her be scanned by these devices.....because I am educated on the matter.

The radiation is being administered by the machine. The TSA is merely the enforcement entity at the location. It is not proper to take your concerns about the radiation to the TSA. Take it to the agencies that have the responsibility to ensure the machines are working properly.

Hype. Fear mongering. That is overcome by education.

Would anyone cruise if all they knew about cruising was the overboard and fires? Folks who educate themselves on the topics that mean something to them overcome the fear and hype.

Regarding no governmental agency quotes....if you read the report it was conducted BY Johns Hopkins Lab. Question the researchers if you must but the TSA has no one that is educated on radiation as the Lab personnel are.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil&Liz View Post
Yes I would let her be scanned by these devices.....because I am educated on the matter.

The radiation is being administered by the machine. The TSA is merely the enforcement entity at the location. It is not proper to take your concerns about the radiation to the TSA. Take it to the agencies that have the responsibility to ensure the machines are working properly.

Hype. Fear mongering. That is overcome by education.

Would anyone cruise if all they knew about cruising was the overboard and fires? Folks who educate themselves on the topics that mean something to them overcome the fear and hype.

Regarding no governmental agency quotes....if you read the report it was conducted BY Johns Hopkins Lab. Question the researchers if you must but the TSA has no one that is educated on radiation as the Lab personnel are.
Education means getting information from competing sources and making an informed decision. There are conflicting reports about the levels of radiation from these machines and their potential effects on some people, including pregnant women.
The hype and fear mongering are what has brought us the TSA and the new machines. Rational voices are calling for more informed decision-making before implementing knee-jerk policies.
The operators of these machines are not medical personnel, but TSA agents. So to suggest that the TSA is not a relevant party to the discussion is somewhat odd.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil&Liz View Post
Yes I would let her be scanned by these devices.....because I am educated on the matter.

The radiation is being administered by the machine. The TSA is merely the enforcement entity at the location. It is not proper to take your concerns about the radiation to the TSA. Take it to the agencies that have the responsibility to ensure the machines are working properly.

Hype. Fear mongering. That is overcome by education.

Would anyone cruise if all they knew about cruising was the overboard and fires? Folks who educate themselves on the topics that mean something to them overcome the fear and hype.

Regarding no governmental agency quotes....if you read the report it was conducted BY Johns Hopkins Lab. Question the researchers if you must but the TSA has no one that is educated on radiation as the Lab personnel are.
Cruising is a poor exemplification. The direct comparison (using cruising) is more relative to getting on a plane than to going through security. Now, does the TSA have anything to do with the radiation coming off that machine? Of course!

As an example...
Lets say a hospital buys an x-ray machine they knew had certain faults. If a doctor is administering an x-ray to you and the machine screws up, who do you go after? The manufacturer of the machine? Of course not - you sue the hospital and the doctor who was overseeing the procedure for using the machine that they knew was faulty - it's negligence. However, in the long term, you may also choose to go after the manufacturer as well. My point here is that the TSA are not innocent bystanders. They are extremely relevant to the discussion about these scanners.

Is it important to be educated? Of course. Does education overcome media hype? Yes, definitely. It's also important to remember that an informed decision is a lot better than an irrational one.
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Past Cruises
CCL:
Carnivale (2/11/93)
Ecstasy (9/5/94)
Fantasy (2/20/00)
Fascination (8/26/00) (2/18/02)
Conquest (2/20/05)
Inspiration (8/18/07)
Liberty (3/15/08.)
Dream (3/3/12)
Sensation (8/19/12)
NCL:
Sea (2/22/03)
PCL:
Golden (2/14/04)
Caribbean (8/20/05)
Crown (3/5/11)
RCI:
Voyager (8/25/02)
Navigator (8/28/04)
Adventure (8/27/06)
Freedom (3/7/10)
Future
Carnival Pride (12/16/12)
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Old November 21st, 2010, 11:29 AM
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The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money. Margaret Thatcher

Never take an idiot travelling, you can always pick one up when you get there. Billy Connolly

I Didn't Come here and I ain't Leaving.
Willie Nelson

9/01/2013 Carnival Legend
2/16/2014 BC 7

Bill Murray
20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs. Please don't let Kevin Bacon die.
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