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  #1 (permalink)  
Old May 2nd, 2001, 10:01 PM
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Default Don't take my tips for granted

I am really sick of hearing all the condemnation around tipping or not tipping. First, the definition of a tip is: a gratuity, a gift neither expected nor required as a reward for exceptional serivce beyond one's normal duties.

A tip is not a salary supplement nor the portion of the cruise fare. Let me state that I worked very hard in college as a waitress. At $2.10 an hour, tips paid the rent and tuition, not my "salary". However, I chose that line of work based on the gamble that I would receive substantial tips.

Now for my gripe/position. I have a job with a job discription. I must do what I contracted to do and I am paid for it. I do not get a little something extra for it at the end of the day or week. Now, when I work above and beyond the duties I am hired to do, I am rewarded with bonuses or some other compensation. I suspect many others have the same experience.

So, why are we so conditioned to tip as a requirement rather than as a gift? Cruise lines can pay their staff the most basic salary because they know passengers will make up the difference. That, is not my fault or my problem. Automatic tipping is a slap in the face. It defys the meaning of a gift. It is presumptious and it is wrong. It is sold to passengers as a benefit. All it does is ensure that the staff will be paid.

Now, I will tip in accordance with my own mind in accordance with the service I receive. I will bestow my gift as I feel appropriate. And, I will not be made to feel like less of a passenger because of it. If it is a requirement, then the cruise lines should include it in the price of the fare just as the luxury lines do. Instead of referring to me as a cruise guest. When is the last time you paid for the privilege of being a guest & then paid your host? I decided a long time ago that I was not going to work myself up into a knot about how much I would give. I bypass all that by sailing on no tipping lines.

However, the issue still comes up there. I have watched and listened to many cruise mates discussing the matter. The bottom line is that while all say they tip and that they tip more for "good" service, its a lie. They tip because they don't want to be thought of as cheap. They tip more for good service & to be thought of "more highly" by others & the crew. As if the crew could care a hoot who you are as long as they get paid. This is not to say that there aren't wonderful people who do their jobs well & make a vacation more enjoyable.

Just look at some of the posts on this board. Reminders that Carnival employees don't get paid. Technically untrue. However, what exactly does that have to do with me? Did I ask them to sign a contract with a cruise line? Did I ask them to leave their home, families, and friends to work for "starvation wages"? Nope, they chose to of their own free will.

Let's see, average dinning room table on a mega ship holds 8. (I'll round up) $4 a day for 7 days, 28 times 8 is $224 a week in tips. $2 (rounded down) an hour 10 hours a day for 7 days $140 plus tips is $364. Factor in room & board included and that the overwhelming majority of the service personnel on the ships aren't US citizens with incomes comparable to ours. Somebody is making out like a bandit.

HAL touts cabin & dinning room staff hailing from the Phillipines & Indonesia. Average monthly salary for a service personnel in either of those countries is roughly $75 per month without room & board. Why else would they take these jobs? Because they are making 10 times a month on the ship than they would at home. The cruise lines know it. HAL isn't the only one. Olympic has Greek staff. Know how much the Drahma goes for against the dollar??? Look at every major cruise line's service staff and see how many golden haired kids from Idaho you see. Not a one. That is my point. We get so caught up in feeling obligated, cruise lines work our fear of approval, and we seek some validation. All the while the service staff, working hard at THE JOB THEY VOLUNTARILY signed on do, make more money in a week than they could in a 2 months back home. Business is good all around.

Personally, I will not be nickle & dimed. I know my post isn't popular & will upset others. Its my opinion and I stand by it. Just take a minute to consider it.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old May 3rd, 2001, 08:50 AM
Jim Munkittrick
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

Dear Renee,
The next time I am involved in a price negotiation, sitting across from a cusomter, PLEASE, PLEASE do not side with my customer!

:-)

I enjoyed your "rant"...as Dennis Miller would say.
But! (isn't life a never ending series of "buts"?)

I have been cruising since 1973, taken 41 cruises, the reality is that the "TIP" is truly mislabeled. The fact of the matter is that it is an unpaid portion of your cruise cost. You may be right in that it is mislabeled and that you are not obligated, but there is a wee bit of an obligation to provide the TIP.

But I truly did enjoy your commentary
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Old May 3rd, 2001, 10:56 AM
PEB PEB is offline
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

Very well said Renee. I do tip but I tip what I feel is right for what was provided. I did talk to a waiter on the last cruise I took and he said even with people skipping out on tipping and some tipping less than suggested he still averaged $1000 a week in tips. Now that is better than what I make and he gets room and board plus a small salary along with that. So I also find it hard to feel real sypathetic when I hear how poor a wage some make. I do believe that the employees I have had serving me or taking care of my room have done an exceptional job but I still say the tipping is better off left to me than an automatic tip.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old May 6th, 2001, 08:58 AM
Not Cheap Either
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

BRAVO! ! ! ! My feelings to the letter. Plus theses ships' are register outside the U.S. to avoid taxes. I can make my own bed in the morning and show me where to get the towels. I have found the morning after the staff received their tip, the pampering is gone. They have no idea which guest left what size of tip, becuase all tips where left on the table. This is the feelings from other guest too. I didn't hire them and I'm not going to pay their salary.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old May 7th, 2001, 04:09 PM
Bridgette
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

As a former cruise ship employee I must say that Renee's comments have made steam rise from my head! No, I did not work as a cabin steward or in any capacity where I would be tipped (entertainment), however I have many friends who would not appreciate cruisers like you. Yes, it is not your fault that the cruise lines pay NOTHING to cabin stewards (on the two lines I worked for) and expect all their wages to come from tips, but don't you have a conscience? How can you let someone clean your room and wipe up your mess and not offer them any kind of money? A lot of these men and women come from poor countries and whatever money they make they will send home to their families. Yes, it is their choice to be working on a ship, but when you hear the stories of what kind of life they would live had they stayed in their country, you would probably understand why they chose their profession. Tipping is being courteous. Tipping is a way of saying "Thank you for serving me. Thank you for letting me live luxuriously for this fabulous week. Thank you for serving me night and day without question." People who work on ships hate it when people like you come aboard. You expect the world but cannot be greatful when it is given to you. I hope you acquire some class before your next trip.
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Old May 7th, 2001, 04:09 PM
Bridgette
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

As a former cruise ship employee I must say that Renee's comments have made steam rise from my head! No, I did not work as a cabin steward or in any capacity where I would be tipped (entertainment), however I have many friends who would not appreciate cruisers like you. Yes, it is not your fault that the cruise lines pay NOTHING to cabin stewards (on the two lines I worked for) and expect all their wages to come from tips, but don't you have a conscience? How can you let someone clean your room and wipe up your mess and not offer them any kind of money? A lot of these men and women come from poor countries and whatever money they make they will send home to their families. Yes, it is their choice to be working on a ship, but when you hear the stories of what kind of life they would live had they stayed in their country, you would probably understand why they chose their profession. Tipping is being courteous. Tipping is a way of saying "Thank you for serving me. Thank you for letting me live luxuriously for this fabulous week. Thank you for serving me night and day without question." People who work on ships hate it when people like you come aboard. You expect the world but cannot be greatful when it is given to you. I hope you acquire some class before your next trip.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old May 11th, 2001, 10:46 AM
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

If you look at the sites that do the hiring for cruise lines you will see that $50.00 per MONTH is a not uncommon "salary" for waiters and room stewards. Yes, they contract knowing this fact, but I'm sure they are induced by the cruise lines to expect that the tips will be excellent for the demanding, 24/7 jobs they do.
I remember our second cruise when the dirt ball at our table told our waiter he "forgot" his tip on the last evening but would bring it at breakfast. Of course,he never went to breakfast. Many people treat the service personell poorly expecting them to jump threw hoops etc. in order to earn their tips.

Yes, the cruise lines need to treat their help better. I think we should all take advantage of the option to tip personally as I have read where certain cruise lines are keeping a large portion of the automatic tips. I suppose they can charge the help fees etc.this way. I want my hardworking room steward and waiters to actually get the tip in their hands.

If all the cruise lines included a decent salary for their service personnel in their cruise pricing and let us add tips for exceptional service, we'd probably be surprised at the cruise fares.
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Old May 11th, 2001, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

See, its posts like Bridgettes that miss the point completely. Renee started off by laying out the standard definition of a tip. Check a few different dictionaries and its basically the same. So far, she'd said nothing false.

Actually, I didn't see anything untrue or "classless" about the post. High pressure/guilt tactics don't help the situation. Personally, I don't care how much they are paid, if its a tip its a gift. Not a salary supplement. It should not be expected nor demanded.

Bridgette admits that the staff willingly sign on for these jobs. Poverty in ones home country makes their personal story more pitiable, but it doesn't change the fact that we should bestow our gifts as we see fit.

How do you feel when you get in a cab, the fare is $4 & you give the driver a $20. He then hands you a $5 & a $10 saying he doesn't have change. Whether you wanted to tip or not, he has made the decision for you. How about when you eat out and the change is less than $5 so the server doesn't give it back. Give me ALL my change & I will decide what I want to give or not. That's what I read in Renee's post. That is how I feel. Automatic tipping is worse than the cabbie's or server's act. Its presumptious and it irks me.

If you have a problem with it, get over it quick. The person cleaning the room is doing his JOB, not a favor for me. Now, when/if he does something special for me, the GIFT is bestowed. Sure, I guess we'd all like to show up to work & get tipped just for being there. But, it doesn't work like that.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old May 17th, 2001, 05:08 PM
gogetter
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

WOW,

This is one of my favorite topics. I agree 100 per cent with Renee !

People who work on a cruise ship, do so of their own free will! PERIOD, end of story. A tip, a bonus, an incentive to your current salary is an extra. Do not demand that i tip just to satisfy your salary. All a service person wants is a tip, whether they give good service or not. Never once, and i mean NEVER, has a service person come back to me and said, well im sorry Harry i gave you substandard service, here is your tip back or i don't believe i have earned that ush here take some back...NO Never happened and never will. I don't remember how many times i have asked for salt or ketchup or something simple, never to recieve it. Who's fault is that ? o i have to remind someone 1000 times for something ? If i forget something in my job i get reamed out by my supervisor, if i do it a few more times i get written up and told i could get fired.
I brought this situation up on another board...... I have had several birthday parties for my wife at a bar/eatery. I have gone up to the server or servers and tip them well from the beginning stating it's my wives' birthday , please make sure she has drinks or whatever. Also when i get my bill at the end of the eveening i will tip also. I go out of my way to be nice and explain atthe start. GUESS WHAT ? Not once have we recieved excellent or superior service, I feel bad because i have prepaid for service that i never got. It makes me mad. I do not go back to the server , nor do i complain to the manager. i will just take my business elsewhere and make sure i tell everyone i know how bad it was. I guess the server thinks they will not get anymore money. I can't understand that, the server would have made a lot.
I also agree with Renee that people make you feel bad if you do not tip, Just like Bridgettes post did. Get some class and don't go on her ship ? Also Bridgette, i have never had anyone wait on me 24/7 on a cruise ship. On the last night of the cruise i saw the cabin steward, so i tipped him before we went to dinner. GUESS WHAT..our room was not cleaned that night and we had 0 clean towels. So whos fault is that ? HIS He got his money and ran without providing the service. Thank goodness i stored a few towels away for this.
Thank you all for letting me rant.
And by the way Bridgette i won't go on your cruise ship !
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old May 26th, 2001, 02:01 PM
Arnie
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

IMHO just consider what you would pay for a tip in a good restaurant for a good meal and
good service.

Cheers
arniegogetter wrote:
>
> WOW,
>
> This is one of my favorite topics. I agree 100 per cent with
> Renee !
>
> People who work on a cruise ship, do so of their own free
> will! PERIOD, end of story. A tip, a bonus, an incentive to
> your current salary is an extra. Do not demand that i tip
> just to satisfy your salary. All a service person wants is a
> tip, whether they give good service or not. Never once, and i
> mean NEVER, has a service person come back to me and said,
> well im sorry Harry i gave you substandard service, here is
> your tip back or i don't believe i have earned that ush here
> take some back...NO Never happened and never will. I don't
> remember how many times i have asked for salt or ketchup or
> something simple, never to recieve it. Who's fault is that ?
> o i have to remind someone 1000 times for something ? If i
> forget something in my job i get reamed out by my supervisor,
> if i do it a few more times i get written up and told i could
> get fired.
> I brought this situation up on another board...... I have
> had several birthday parties for my wife at a bar/eatery. I
> have gone up to the server or servers and tip them well from
> the beginning stating it's my wives' birthday , please make
> sure she has drinks or whatever. Also when i get my bill at
> the end of the eveening i will tip also. I go out of my way
> to be nice and explain atthe start. GUESS WHAT ? Not once
> have we recieved excellent or superior service, I feel bad
> because i have prepaid for service that i never got. It makes
> me mad. I do not go back to the server , nor do i complain to
> the manager. i will just take my business elsewhere and make
> sure i tell everyone i know how bad it was. I guess the
> server thinks they will not get anymore money. I can't
> understand that, the server would have made a lot.
> I also agree with Renee that people make you feel bad if you
> do not tip, Just like Bridgettes post did. Get some class and
> don't go on her ship ? Also Bridgette, i have never had
> anyone wait on me 24/7 on a cruise ship. On the last night of
> the cruise i saw the cabin steward, so i tipped him before we
> went to dinner. GUESS WHAT..our room was not cleaned that
> night and we had 0 clean towels. So whos fault is that ? HIS
> He got his money and ran without providing the service. Thank
> goodness i stored a few towels away for this.
> Thank you all for letting me rant.
> And by the way Bridgette i won't go on your cruise ship !
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old May 27th, 2001, 04:37 PM
gogetter
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

Hello, Thank you arnie. I do consider a tip in a fine rest. and for good service i have tipped extremely well when it warrants. I am all for tipping......just give me the service ..

Thank you and have a nice day !
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old July 16th, 2001, 06:07 PM
a1
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

wow !
you'll get slammed if you post this at CruiseAddicts

well done Renee - 100%
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old July 24th, 2001, 04:51 PM
Tom Tom is offline
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

Maybe you should switch to de-caf
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Old July 26th, 2001, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

I agree with points made by Renee. Although, I would be interested to hear her feelings about when she was a waitress. If she was doing her job and at the end of the meal, the patrons stiffed her because they felt it wasn't their duty to supplement her salary, did she feel bad? Or say, "hey, that's how it goes?". Just curious.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old August 20th, 2001, 02:30 PM
Rob H
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

Its a thoughtful note but is not a cruise just like going to stay at an hotel or resort. If one said it was all inclusive then perhaps no tips are needed except for special requests.
I cannot control the industry but I do recognize gratuity is a reality and will follow guidelines unless service was really bad.

Interesting enough folks who have worked in hotels / cruise ships will tip 10-20 % more then recommended is my experience especially listening to my wife and daughter who worked in these areas.

What are you going to do when you order a drink and 15 % is automatically added per the brochure, remove it.

To me its a cost to my trip, to allow for.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old September 24th, 2001, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

well said
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Old September 24th, 2001, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

Jim.......all I can think to say is Bull Hockey.....I tip for service not ship guidelines.......I have tipped above and below guidelines depending on service. I work hard for my money and do not piss it away because of cruise ship tip guidelines. thanks
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Old September 24th, 2001, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

sorry Bridgette but I cant help where they came from....I dont work hard to "give" it away....My tip is directly related to the service provided........We have had great to lousy service.....oh well Bridgette babe thats life.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old February 24th, 2002, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

I truly enjoyed your message, Renee. It was well-written and thought-provoking. Good job! I do like the auto tip because it doesn't require anything of me but to sign the bill, and we are on vacation and know there are "hidden" costs involved when we sign on. But I can see your point & applaud you for writing it!
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Old April 28th, 2002, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

Bravo Renee !!! I DO tip, I just tip according to the service I recieve and always in person!!
I do not think that auto tipping is a personal "thank-you" as I believe a tip should be. And I think the industry is screwing up in making it almost mandatory!! I believe the srevice will get poorer over time because the wait staff will become complacent.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old September 16th, 2002, 01:50 AM
Ahmed Ahbar
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

When Americans take this attitude with the rest of the world, some downtrodden people get upset and start crashing airplanes into tall buildings
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Old September 18th, 2002, 10:16 AM
Jim Gallup
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

This is the kind of nonsense that we are accustomed to hearing from Americans. This "holier than thou" message that convinces the rest of the world that Americans are idiots that must be tolerated due to their monay and power.

There will be a payback time however.
How do you say it??@Payback is a *****?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old November 26th, 2002, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Re: Don't take my tips for granted

Pretty good wages I'd say! Guess this is why the crew I was playing blackjack with at the Atlantis were at times betting as much as $500.00 a hand. I felt like a pauper playing with them!
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Old December 8th, 2002, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

The only thing I find really disconcerting about the 'auto-tip' is that I somehow now feel *compelled* to tip in addition to the 'auto-tip,' as though that amount is not the traditional gratuity, but the minimum. Other than that, it's simple and I think it gives passengers an invitation to discussing any glaring service deficiencies with the pursor...when tha opportunity might not otherwise be comfortable for the passenger to discuss that sort of thing.

By the way, Brigette, you might ask your thoughtful question ("How can you let someone clean . . .and not offer them any kind of money?") to the cruise lines and see whether they have the same sort of reaction you expect of passengers.
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Old December 30th, 2002, 09:57 PM
Georges
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Default Re: Re: Don't take my tips for granted

I totally agree with both of you. People should recognize a tip as a gift for extra service and attention. Charity is another thing and should be recognized as such! Both should be considered personal and voluntary choice, which the majority of people will comply to if earned and justified.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old January 9th, 2003, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: Don't take my tips for granted

I have a simple thought on tipping....If don't tip, don't eat out, on a cruise if you don't tip go buffet.

Your tips can be removed from your sign and sail account without questions asked so what is the big deal anyway?
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