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  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 27th, 2004, 01:53 PM
sdiver
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Default what do they make

ok.. how much do these people who work unskilled jobs on ships actually make?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old January 28th, 2004, 01:06 PM
McCall
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Default Re: what do they make

In actual salary and depending on the cruiseline many of them make $50. per month plus room and board, for which they work 16 hours a day 7 days a week for 6 to 12 months a year on contract. They are normally required to pay thier own way home as well.
And for all those of you that add up what you think they are getting in tips and say how much they are making remember the 16 hours, 7 day part of the equation when you are figureing out their hourly wages.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old January 28th, 2004, 01:20 PM
HeySailor
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Default Re: what do they make

I love you, McCall.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old January 30th, 2004, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: what do they make

I hardly call a waiter or assistant waiter unskilled! Perhaps you are referring to behind the scenes personnel.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old January 31st, 2004, 06:48 AM
True Brit
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Default Re: what do they make

It really is not our problem how little or much the crew gets paid except in that we are expected to make up the largest percentage of their total income. Now thats a new one on me; if only someone had added a bonus of in excess of my salary every year I probably would not give a damn about the size of the tip only they didn't. And if some of the wait staff I have met on RCI are in any way skilled then their trainer should be fired. New bottle of wine - just pour it in to the half empty glass without tasting or asking! Of course with his lack of English asking would have been difficult.
Why is it though that P&O charge so much less in tips than the others - currently 3.50 which equates to about $6 at todays rate or under $5 a few months ago? Equally I heard that Cunard are charging $20 per day on QM2. That is one hell of a difference which surely cannot be a reflection of the different salary structures on the different ships or can it? No doubt somebody out there knows the answer.
Paul
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old February 1st, 2004, 08:37 PM
jerry berkowitz
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Default Re: Re: what do they make

hi
I believe p&o is princess . we were
on the golden princess in december
and we wer charged $10.00 per day
for tips . the crew was unbelievable .
and worth every penny .
jerry
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old February 2nd, 2004, 10:55 AM
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Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: My GPS says 12 ft. above 6 ft. under!
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Default Re: Re: what do they make

I hear you McCall but have to ask to what line you are referring? I know on Carnival, the bartender told me she works 12 hour shifts and has to pay her own way home. She said Carnival will pay for the non-gratuity workers, such as maintenance, galley, workers trips though.

I don't get how some people think these crew members are a notch above slavery! They chose to take these jobs. They remain in these jobs. They wait for years to get these jobs.

They must be happy with these jobs. They are not slaves.

I work two full time jobs myself. The alarm clock goes off at 5:42 a.m. and I rarely get to bed before 11 p.m. That's 7 days a week, year round. But, IT'S WHAT I CHOSE ! ! !

Regards,
Thomas
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old February 3rd, 2004, 01:12 PM
McCall
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Default Re: Re: Re: what do they make

They chose these jobs yes, as opposed to what was available in their own countries, they are away from their families for 6 mo at a time. They are not much above slave wages before tips. But with tips when people tip as they should then Yes they can send good money home to those families.
But when people complain about having to tip them for the huge amount of work they do, when said people are cruising at rock bottom prices, {pre tips and extras} it just really burns me up.
have any of these same people figured out just the fuel bill for one of these cruises? and the Food? before you add any labor of any kind?
I mean really.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old February 4th, 2004, 09:49 AM
mk mk is offline
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Default Re: what do they make

i dont care how much the fuel is.... thats part of a business expense... i just dont like that these people arent paid squat by the cruise lines.. whether i get a good deal or not doesnt affect their pay....i agree, the deal i just got on the constellation doesnt make sense, if i assumed normal restaurant prices on everything i eat i will for sure come out ahead, and i am not a big drinker... but hey thats not my fault.... anything that is forced is crap, let me tip based on the service i recieve that goes beyond the normal... they should already be paid to do their job.... and if they arent its not my fault.. its crap, but its not my fault
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old February 5th, 2004, 08:41 AM
MyNextCruiseIsNotSoonEnou
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Default Re: what do they make

How much they make, how far from home they are, how impoverished their homes or countries are, how long their hours might be....none of these things are factored into how much I choose to tip. I tip because I've been provided with good personal service. If it were any other way, I'd be tipping farmers and military service people.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old February 5th, 2004, 01:30 PM
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Admiral
 
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Location: My GPS says 12 ft. above 6 ft. under!
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Default Re: what do they make

I agree MyNextCruise.

Whether they are paid in salary by the cruiseline or tips from us or the combination of both doesn't matter one bit. Their income is X amount. Many people in the world work for tips for their income.

And McCall, if you want to know what the cruiselines pay for fuel and food and insurance and maintenance, or any business expense, visit their web site and go to the investor relations page and look at their books. Your questions will be answered there. I've done this and can report that RCCL, on average, will make on a 7-day voyage with 2000 customers, to the Caribbean, will earn about $250,000 per cruise in profit. It's simple math. It's about $125 profit per passenger on a week's cruise or $17.85 per person per day.

I believe the system is the way it should be. Let me buy a cheap ticket for the cruise and tip the staff rather than paying a higher price for the ticket and not have to tip the staff.

Regards,
Thomas
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old February 7th, 2004, 12:10 PM
True Brit
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Default Re: Re: what do they make

I did exactly what you suggested Thomas and very informative it was too. I would be a little worried at the given statistic of occupancy rates though. It seems for the last few years in excess of 100% has become the norm for RCI which might explain why their service has deteriorated over the same period. I've only cruised with them twice, and will not be making that thrice, and find that occupancy figure to be unbelievable. Possibly a case of " statistics, statistics, statistics and more damn lies! "
Cheers. Paul
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old February 9th, 2004, 09:58 PM
robertj668
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Default Re: what do they make

Hi all

Boy is this a delicate yet exciting subject to read. So many great and arguable points being brought up here and there.

But seriously. what is a yearly salery for these people after tips? Can we get an honest answer.

What does the

Room Steward make?
Waiter?
Assistant Waiter? and so on make.

There was acomment earlier about skilled labor. when I think of skilled labor I think of someone ho went to school for their trade or an education is needed. Also how long does it take to become what they do? A week a mont a year or more. Second pay can reflect on how much responsabily one carries. If the Ships Captain makes a mistake is can be fatel.

I am being honest here can we find out how much they make. the hours are long yes but a lot of jobs today are no longer 9 to 5. We all work hard.

Finally look in your Sunday newpaper every now and then and look at what for the article on Incomes of average people in the United states. Some peopel are making only 15K a year while some are making 15K a Day. Its all Relative.

I believe in tipping for good service and a smile. And for the most part we get it. We have on cruised and tipped the minumum. We have also tipped more and we have tipped less. If we ever tipped less it was due to service that did not improve even after talking to the right people about it.

I will leave with this thought, I understand that tipping is important. But I have read that even if you never eat in the dinning room at all. Room service all the time (They get the tip then) for expample or a specialty dinning room that you have to pay to get into, (Those people would then get the tip) why should I tip? the Main dinning room if I tipped the people that served me. Trying not to be sarcastic but should I tip the Outbacksteak house even though I ate a Chillies instead?

Again I am not cheap. When we book the cruise we calculate paying at least the minimum tipp and have the money saved already. I agree, when you book the cruise you should be able to pay for the tipps too!

Have a great day

Robert & Lisa

Next Cruise in May. Not sure which ship. But it will be Princess this time again!
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old February 10th, 2004, 10:20 AM
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Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: My GPS says 12 ft. above 6 ft. under!
Posts: 7,277
Default Re: Re: Re: what do they make

Paul,

The occupancy rates are above 100% because 100% occupancy is considered 2 people per cabin. When a family puts a 3rd and 4th person in the cabin the occupancy rate climbs above 100%. This is spelled out in the fine print on their investor relations page.

Now, for whoever asked how much they make in a year here's a calculation. On our last cruise my waiter was working 15 people. Using the suggested tip amounts, that's $3.50 per person, per day, and 2 dinner seatings per night. Total per 7 day sailing=$735 per sailing. If they are on an 8 month contract that is 35 weeks, or total = $25,725. Add to that the $50 per month salary and get a total of $26,125. If you annualize this out to a year, as we all work, it becomes = $38,814 on an annualized basis. Now consider they are not paying the 28% U.S. withholding tax, and FICA, and SUDA, and state, county, or city income taxes. So if you were to have "take-home pay" of $38, 814 you would have to make $53,908 per year.

Now consider if you make $54,000 per year, to have take home pay of $38,000 your $38,000 also must pay for your lodging, food, electricity, cable T.V. , lawn care, gasoline, automobile, auto insurance, home insurance, home maintenance, lawn fertilizer and pesticides, automobile tires, etc.

They do work hard for us, and I tip above the recommended amount, but I do get a bit disturbed when people want to feel pity upon them.

Regards,
Thomas
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old February 10th, 2004, 10:28 AM
HeySailor
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Default Re: what do they make

Again, Thomas, you are not taking into consideration the fact that tips are pooled on most lines and a number of behind-the-scenes people get "tipped out" by waiters and assistant waiters. In most cases, as I understand it, waiters share their tips with bus staff, some kitchen staff, etc., so it's more than one person sharing that $3.50 per day you give your waiter and $2 you give your assistant waiter.

Can we hear from Bruce or someone else employed by the cruise industry as to this point? Thanks.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old February 10th, 2004, 10:34 AM
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Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: My GPS says 12 ft. above 6 ft. under!
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Default Re: what do they make

I have asked the question and have been answered by the waiter and bartender. They do NOT share their tips with the non-gratuity workers. The bartenders pool the 15% gratuity on all bar drinks, but cash handed to them remains with them. This was on my last Carnival trip. On my last RCI trip the bartenders told me they do not pool tips at all. And the waiter told me the tips they receive they keep.

That's all I can go by.

Regards,
Thomas
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old February 10th, 2004, 12:40 PM
HeySailor
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Default Re: what do they make

I did a little research and discovered that I was wrong about non-gratuity workers (kitchen staff, laundry, etc.) sharing tips. Some lines may do it, but evidently most don't. So mea culpa there!

Here are average monthly salaries, including tips, for some cruise ship employment categories which receive gratuities, according to cruisejoblink.com:

--Waiter/waitress: $1,500-2,200
--Busboy: $1,000-1,500
--Head room steward (the boss; not your average steward): $1,600-2,500. Unfortunately, this site didn't include tip totals for the average stewards; just said $50 a month plus tips.
--Bellboy: $900-1,000
--Bartender: $1,200-2,200

cruiseplacement.com shows these monthly salaries, including tips, for gratuitied workers:

--Room steward (non-supervisory): $1,800-2,200
--Assistant room steward: $1,200-1,500
--Buffet stewards: $900-1,300
--Bartender: $1,700-2,400
--Junior waiter (dining room): $1,200-1,800
--Assistant waiter (dining room): $1,400-2,100
--Senior waiter (dining room): $2,200-3,800

from seacruiseent.com:

--Waiter (dining room): $1,500-2,200
--Busboy: $1,000-1,500
--Assistant cabin steward: $1,200-1,500
--Bellboy: $900-1,000

Methinks they're not exactly raking it in for those 15-hour days, if this is accurate. Would love to hear from someone in the industry.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old February 10th, 2004, 03:47 PM
Bruce Chafkin
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Default Re: what do they make

I have worked in the cruise industry for 26 years - and I am an American. A very rare animal in this business. Most cruise lines do not hire Americans. We have proven to be very poor employees who will not work for the money that our international colleagues make.

Nobody is forced to take a job on a ship - nor are they forced to stay there if they do not like it. But the money is quite good - by international standards. But many ship crewmembers cannot find a decent job at home and must take a ship job to feed their families.

Most International Ship Crew do pay income taxes - in their home country. The Philippines is a good example. The Philippine Government sanctions Employment Agencies to get cruise line jobs for Filipinos. The Filipinos must pay thousands of dollars upfront to the employment agencies in order to get the jobs. They must also pay the agencies a lot for "safety training" before leaving the Philippines. Then the Philippine Government requires the cruise line to send a major portion of the salaries back to the Philippines through the Agencies. The Agencies take a cut, then play games with the exchange rates and take a bit more. Then they report the salaries to the Philippine Government so that the Government can take their cut as well.

Most rank and file ship employees are paid $50 per month salary + tips. The International Unions (which most are required to join) take their cut next.

A good waiter on an international ship usually nets about $3,000 per month before he sends the money home. After the Agency and the Government finish with their take, he probably nets about $2,000 per month. But he had to work very hard about 15 hours per day for 30 straight days to earn that money.

That comes to about $4.40 per hour. Considering how hard they work and all the grief thay take from most of the cruise passengers, it is not nearly enough. But it is still better that what they could hope to make at home.

Is it our fault that these people come from underprivileged countries?
Is it our responsibility to help them out?
We all do live on the same planet.
You be the judge.

Please note that when over-paid and over-fed Americans start making disparaging comments about underprivileged people, some of those people take it rather seriously.
Then they hijack American airplanes and crach them into tall American buildings.
I recommend that we make every effort to assist our fellow humans and avoid that happening in future.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old February 10th, 2004, 09:06 PM
robertj668
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Default Re: Re: what do they make

Thank you all who answered my question yesterday or the monthly Saleries. They ere not bad. Hours may not be great but the payis not bad.

Good Night

Robert & Lisa
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old February 11th, 2004, 07:52 AM
True Brit
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Default Re: what do they make

"better than what they can make at home" Spot on! On my last cruise (RCI) I got talking to the bartenders - one Indian, one Brazilian and one Portuguese. They confirmed the figures previously posted of around $25000 total income. As it happens I have been to all three countries and a nett of say $20000 per annum will buy you one heck of a lot in any. I also got friendly with the casino manager and he reckoned we are going to see a big increase in the number of staff from the Indian sub-Continent since they can do so much better on ships than at home. Personally I have noticed a big increase in the number of staff from former Soviet Bloc countries such as Romania, Bulgaria and Albania. It's probably a slight exaggeration but you could buy Albania for $20000! Me I don't have a problem where they come from so long as they can do the job and do it well. It's those that cannot that annoy me and, even then, I wonder whether they got any real training before being chucked in at the deep-end.
Paul
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old February 27th, 2004, 11:26 AM
US marine Corps.
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Default Re: what do they make

And I get about $2.35/hour and I am working 24/7 in the defense of my country....... and ashoring that spoiled yuppies like yourselves can cruise safely and deleted about something the majority of the population will never be able to afford!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old February 28th, 2004, 08:34 AM
SLS
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Default Re: what do they make

USMC,

you need to relax. I've been retired from the Navy for a year now. Have done 2 cruises since retirement with my third planned for December. I tip whats expected more if I get really great service. I saved while in the Navy and settled in a low cost living area so I could afford to do these things.

sls
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