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  #31 (permalink)  
Old July 5th, 2004, 05:29 AM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

It would probably be best to limit your comments to what you know and believe, rather than trying to project what others know or believe. Telling someone else what they know comes across as arrogant and self-centered.

So, in a nutshell, yes, I do know the truth: America will come to Canada's aide. That is what I know.

Why doesn't Canada do more about the issues you are concerned about?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old July 5th, 2004, 01:01 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Well for one thing we don't even pretend to be anyones savoiur. We just make by on ourselves.
As for me being arrogant and self centred , I doubt that very much, I don't pretend to have all the anwsers( while you apparently do in fact have all the answers) . Although you haven't been able or willing to anwser some of mine.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old July 5th, 2004, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

"We just make by on ourselves."

Sounds like a wonderful national motto. <rolling eyes>

Good thing your government doesn't agree with you.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old July 5th, 2004, 04:40 PM
pg
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Still haven't answered me.But tha's ok Bicker, I know you don't have all the anwers either!
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old July 6th, 2004, 05:09 AM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

This is a post on "tipping"..where did all of this other "stuff" come from? Let's try to stick to the topic at hand.

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2004, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

I will get mad at Europeons who don't tip. The fact is that it is a cultural thing in the United States, and the fact that it's not that way in the rest of the world really doesn't matter. It's funny to me how people in other countries always want us to respect their culture, but when we ask for the same, it's always the same argument that the rest of the world doesn't like it so too bad.

I mean, it really is a case of "When in Rome..." When I go to other countries I respect their traditions even if I don't understand or agree with them because I am a guest. Is it really so much to ask for the same courtesy in return?

It may be useful to remember that America is a heavily service economy and that probably influences the tipping tradition.

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  #37 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2004, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

dalech,
I don't think that other countries attitudes are " so too bad" . I have travelled a lot and I don't see that, but what I am saying is that sometimes it is just ignorance of our customs( North Americans) ( tipping) that leads to misunderstanding. I don't assume that they are being difficult, many UK( and other european countries) posters have posted that they would like the tipping EXPLAINED to them.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2004, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

I have seen a lot of that, but i have also seen a lot of posters from other conutries complaining about our tipping customs. Ignorance is understandable, and I would be happy to explain tipping to them, but when i see people expressing how bad we are because we have a custom of tipping that irritates me. Don't get me wrong, even as an American I belive we tip in too many circumstances, and not always for quality service. I just wanted to make sure that any foreign posters understnad that just like we need to respect their customs when in their countries, they should respect ours, at least when on American corporate owned cruise ships. That's all I wanted to express.

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2004, 11:02 PM
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Default Origins of tipping


According to Geri Trotta, editor of the travel section of New York-based Harper's Bazaar, the popular belief links the origin of the word "tip" to a practice found in the British restaurant Samuel Johnson's London in the 18th century. This establishment provided clients who wanted faster service with a coin box. That box was inscribed with the words "To Insure Promptness." Keeping only the initials of the expression, clients who were in a hurry soon began to call it "tip."

When tipping began, it was used as a way to thank an employee for the quality of service; a sign of courtesy and kindness. But the situation changed over time. For instance, in some sectors, the employer was no longer able to offer a decent salary to his employees. This small surplus progressively became a salary compensation, without any direct link to the quality of the service."


As for the official definition of the word tip, it still designates an amount freely granted to thank an employee for a rendered service. Yet, the etiquette rules and social pressures somewhat limit the freedom of choice for consumers. The Green Book on the situation of tip employees, published by the Quebec Government in 1982 makes it clear: according to the Ministry of Revenue, tips are a form of remuneration coming from the relationship between the client and the employee, as well as an essential part of the revenue of the worker who receives them. Therefore, onus is on the consumer to determine the reward given, which depends on his or her generosity and on the quality of the service obtained...

the rest of the article is at
http://www.canoe.ca/LifewiseWork01/j...ing_a-can.html
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Great information. Thanks for posting it!
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old June 6th, 2005, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

As I am soon to embark on my first cruise I am wondering why some people swear they have received fantastic service and other people swear that their service was poor. It seems to me that if staff know they are going to get yay amount without lifting a finger, then it must be the lazy burnt out or I dont care staff that is giving this poor service. If I was a staff member I would complain about these lazy individuals as next time those people cruise they wouldnt leave me an extra tip for the wonderful service I hope that I would provide. Seems to me a change in personel or better training may help!!! As some writters have pointed out, they chose to work onboard and I think a smiling happy attitude should be expected at all times, even after the tip has been handed out. Since I am cruising with Hal I will be paying the 10 per day which is fine but weather after reading some of these forums I will go beyond that ...well...the jury is still out....

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old June 7th, 2005, 04:14 PM
Carol Eskra
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Same thing happened to me on the Grand Princess. In addition to the upfront tipping I gave the cabin attendant a thank you note with a $50.00 bill, and even offered him my oceanfront condo when he went on vacation. We passed one another in the hall the last morning and not a good bye or thank you. Needless to say tipping is a sore subject with me.

Happy Sailing!
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old June 11th, 2005, 12:58 AM
Bruce Chafkin
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

I WILL NEVER GIVE GOOD SERVICE AGAIN.

Hi. I'm a waiter on a cruise ship.

My experience over the past couple of weeks.

Onboard....... A daily amount was added per person to be shared out between room steward and dining room wait staff.

My guests kept me running all week, demanding extra this, special that. They complained constantly, blaming me if the tomatoes were not ripe enough, if it was raining outside, if they had to wait in line to do something or go somewhere. They complained that the ship moved too much, it was too hot here, too cold there, too many children onboard (as if I had something to do with it), not enough chairs by the pool.

On the last night of the cruise I received 50% cash on top of the compulsory gratuity, in an envelope with a thank you letter. $160 that was.

The following morning at breakfast my guests did not say a word of 'thank you'.
They were (if anything) sullen with me.


That was on board.

Ashore.

American waiters and waitresses on shore make far more money than I do - and work far less. Their attitude is not so hot and neither is their service. It's just not fair.

Fort Lauderdale:-

You have to tip:-

The person who takes your bags off the ship
The person who takes your bags to your transfer coach
The person who drives you to your transfer hotel
The person who takes your bags into the lobby
The person who gives you a luggage check
The person who eventually takes the bags to your room
The person who takes your bags down to the lobby
The person who puts your bags on the coach
The person who drives you to the airport
The person who takes your bags from the coach to the check-in desk

All these people get far more tips than I do - and they don't give very good service. Why should I try to do a good job? They do next to nothing and earn far more than I do

In the hotel itself:-

You're expcected to tip the barstaff who want to gossip with eachother despite them adding an 18% service charge.

Oh and then on top of it all.......... we add all those other service charges and state taxes etc etc etc.


My message to cruise Lines: Move with the times and pay crew what they're worth. Stop giving these incredible deals to an unappreciative American Public. Force them to pay an honest fare so I can be paid an honest wage for what I do. I'm not going to lift a finger to help anyone until I'm paid a fair wage.

My message to the USA: You are one of the last countries in the world where tipping is so much a part of life. European people hate this tipping business. It's not good for your tourist industry ,and don't get angry with Europeans who don't tip. They do not do it at home because the staff get paid. If you choose not to pay your staff then don't blame me for lousy service.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2005, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Bruce,

Sorry you job sucks ----. Why don't you QUITso you don't have to deal with us lousy Amercians. I'd like to know what country you come from. Rudeness comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors. I'd like to assume you are a nice person with high intelligence and can find a better paying job in your OWN country.

I have so much more I'd like to say to you, but won't because it won't change you.
I hope you have a nice day and find a great job in YOUR own country.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2005, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

On another thread Bruce claims he is a hotel manager and spends time travelling near Brazil, yet he posts from a Japanese ISP. Nothing about his posts are a bit believable, IMHO.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2005, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

I just thought of something, according to "Bruce", Europeans don't tip because they pay their people so well. What are the chances it's the Europeans not tipping on the cruise because they're not used to it and not the Americans that are used to it?
Just a thought.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2005, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Calm down, y'all!

If you've read many of Bruce's other posts you would realize that the "Waiter" post was written "tongue-in-cheek" from a waiter's point of view!

I believe he mentioned recently that he was on vacation. I'm not very computer savy, but I think you can connect to your "home" ISP, if you want, no matter where you are.

Or, he may be in Japan!

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  #48 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2005, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Fern,

Thank you for a voice of reason.
Some of the posters may need to switch to decaf - or maybe take a cruise to calm down.

Bruce
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old June 16th, 2005, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Bruce,

I apologize if you meant it tongue in cheek. It didn't seem that way, to me at least. I happen to live in South Florida with many people from all over the world. I'm just sick off people putting Americans down.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old June 20th, 2005, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Tipping in the US is definitely out of control, but that is no excuse to punish those whose main source of revenue is tips. My favorite example of out of control and unnecessary tipping is the extortion fee used by unionized longshoremen at cruise ports who do little more than move baggage from the trunks of cars to the crates that are sent on board. The crew on board does all the real work. (The porters who help you out of the terminal after the cruise are not included with the longshoremen.)

Even the standards have changed. It used to be 10-15%, with 15% going only to those who truly went beyond reasonable expectations. Who decided that 15% should be a minimum?

While I still believe that those who knowingly stiff the crew on a cruise ship without reason have a special circle of hell reserved just for them, I have to agree with those who say the practice is out of hand in some areas. I don't mind tipping for services that I want or need; paying extra to people who are already being fairly compensated to do their job is fraudulent.

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  #51 (permalink)  
Old June 29th, 2005, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Attention: Newbie's who happen to have read all this. Please do not pay a lot of attention to what you have just read. Tipping is not this big a deal. If you are traveling on Carnival, you can select to have tips come out of a prepay from your ticket, or they can take it out of your S&S card. If you get extra care from those on the ship, please give them a little something extra.

Inspite of what you have read, the US and Canada, and Great Britian have not declared war on each other. We are all still friends.

You may now return to your battle. Europe I believe it was your turn......
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old July 10th, 2005, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

This may sound a bit naive, but I enjoy the very self serving emotional lift I get when I can give a tip to someone who has offered me a service.

I do now (I did not previously) know that this is an American affectation. I learned it as a child watching my parents.

If giving a tip today expedites better service tomorrow---All the better.

Larry
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old July 24th, 2005, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

From what I read on shipboard tipping it seems that my prophecy is coming true - that eventually the tipping charge will become a fixed charge and people will be expected to tip on top of that. Also tips are always in US dollars so that the $20 per day per couple becomes almost $25 Cdn. We have cruised when we had to pay $1.60 for one US dollar so the $20 per day became $32 Cdn. That made the cost of the cruise and tips very high. Americans are fortunate that they pay the stated charge and don't have to add on because of a weaker dollar.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old July 25th, 2005, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

I wonder why some people even go on vacation. We have all had to sit at a table on a cruise with someone who is constantly complaining about tipping, dress, etc. I even sat next to a woman who complained about the sun and heat in the Caribbean constantly (ummm it is the Caribbean). I think some peoples idea of a good vacation is having something to complain about.

At least it gives us something to talk about later. Our last cruise we sat with a couple like that and it gave the rest of us a common bond. Like we had been through the war together :-) When we would see each other on deck we would jokingly complain about something trivial "Darn towel animals, how am I expected to dry myself with an elephant". So you habitual complainers and unhappy people thanks for the entertainment . Let me know what cruise you are taking next time and I will send you a platter of cheese to go with your whine.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old August 24th, 2005, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

The tipping culture is getting out of hand. We all feel compelled to tip when someone does a good job - that should be enough. As for preserving high levels of service, there are all manner of 5 star establishments around the world, for example, in Asia, Africa, Middle East etc, where tipping is not part of the culture and the service is impeccably first class. Obviously for service like that it is a pleasure to tip particularly when you know it is not "compulsory". I suggest you get a copy of Carnival or RCCL´s public accounts and see what they rake in before you back tipping as a measure of quality control and supplemental employee income. You will see that your defence of the tipping culture only ensures the corporates get bigger profits at the expense of the workers.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old August 24th, 2005, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: Re: We'll never tip again.

Everything you say may be true, but it is the stewards and wait staff on the ship who will suffer if you don't tip. The cruise lines will not be affected at all.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old August 27th, 2005, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Tipping as we all can agree is a cultural thing. I was brought up in an environment where tipping was the polite and appropriate thing to do. I often travel to Canada and I frequent the same restaurants when I go. I do tip and you know what....those waiters remember me and I do get great service. My Canadian relatives and friends always whine and complain when I tip and I really don't care. They tell me American tourists create tipping expectations in their country. I am sure the waiters don't mind serving meals to those "tipping crazed Americans." If someone gives me good service I will continue to tip on land and at sea. We usually cruise with Princess where the tips are added to your account. If our room attendant gives us good service we always tip him/her something extra on the last day of the cruise. We have always been thanked with a handshake and "thank you" and a smile. Tipping is like many things in our culture. There are particular expectations according to where you live and how you were raised. As for the comment about the cruise ships not being American...they may not be American owned but the vast majority of passengers ARE Americans. Maybe that is why tipping is widely expected and practiced.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old August 27th, 2005, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Jean,
We traveled to Canada and tipped our waitstaff...we weren't suppose to? We also tipped the cab driver and our double decker bus driver, Patricia...she really earned it!!! We are still laughing about that trip. We are on our way back to Vancouver and want to know If it's appropriate or not.



Post Edited (08-27-05 16:06)
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old August 27th, 2005, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

We are Canadian and we are great tippers. I have actually met very few fellow Candians that were not good tippers so I don't understand the above post by JeanS. Where in Canada were you that people complained about your tipping? We live near Vancouver - which is, as most of you know, very tourist oriented. We would never think of not tipping in any situation - except where service was terrible - and that, so far, has never happened to us.

CA Cruiser - tip away - most restaurants pay LESS than minimum wage up here - so the wait staff and others in the industry truly do need those tips - and most work very hard for them.

ttfn Jennifer
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2005, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: We'll never tip again.

Thanks for the info Jennifer. We have our stack of $1 and we want to do the right thing. Can't wait to return to Vancouver!! Great city.

Teresa
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