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Godfredo July 20th, 2004 10:26 PM

Stop the Insanity!
People, please understand that you can debate the tipping issue until you are blue in the face, but it still is part of a cruise. Tips are tips! If you decide to have them added to your account or simply pay them in cash, it still is the custom. I personally like the feeling of handing the envelope and thanking people, others may not. I tip more to some and less to others baed on the service I recieved.

Recently I was on the NCL Sun, and tried the auto tipping but decided to reduce the amount because with the freestyle cruising we found that the service we recieved was terrible. We paid our cabin Steward the difference in cash becuase he was wonderful. I honestly believe that the freestyle cruising is a good idea for many, but it does take away from the personal service and allows for tipping to become more challanging. I will tip those who give good service and I will also reward those individuals by naming them on the comment cards.

dalech July 29th, 2004 01:08 AM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
I totally agree!!!

TokyoRose July 29th, 2004 06:03 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
You are never obligated to give a gratuity and I don't. No amount of guilt or going on about tradition is going to ever convince me and my family to change my stance. I do not tip for land based restaurants and I do not tip housekeepers in land based hotels. Being on a cruise is no different.

dalech July 29th, 2004 06:17 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!

I've argued with you on this before, and I am not going to again. Feel about it how you want, I really don't care.

George in NY July 30th, 2004 09:41 AM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Sorry Godfredo, on NCL you will now pay a " service charge " which is MANDATORY, on all ships FLEETWIDE not just on the Hawaii sailings as previously announced. This charge cannot, not be paid, mandatory.

George in NY

Thomas August 1st, 2004 07:18 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
And I suspect it's because people like TokyoRose won't tip that the cruiseline had to do this. Guess what? Now you don't have a choice. The other lines will probably do the same and we have the stiffers to thank.


Jane_Marlow August 2nd, 2004 05:16 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Rose: aren't you a bit ashamed to show your non-tipping face at your local eateries?

Do you proudly flounce into the same place time and again? Oh, here comes the no tip wonder? Doesn't this cause you the least bit of chagrin? Or do you simply lack decency? Lack of shame is rapant today.

TokyoRose August 2nd, 2004 11:31 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Not ashamed at all. If my food is brought out cold or drinks watered down, a complaint to the management is immediately in order.

It doesn't cause me the least bit of chagrin. It is a not a moral problem either for me. From my place of birth and residence of most of my childhood and early adult life, tipping was unheard of.

Those waitstaff that do not report their full tip income to the IRS feel no shame in cheating the us government.

dalech August 3rd, 2004 10:44 AM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Hi Tokyo,

What difference does it make what the tradition of the place you were born and raised make in terms of tipping? Do you live there now?

In America the practice is to tip. Not sure what makes that so hard for you to accept.

Perhaps people do cheat on their tip income to the IRS, jsut like some people cheat on their taxes in all professions. Does that mean they shouldn't get paid either? I thought we had a legal system to address such things. Two wrongs, doesn't make a right.

TokyoRose August 3rd, 2004 04:01 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Sorry but tipping always has been and always will be a gratuity. It is never mandatory. Service charges are different and stated as such when a purchase is made.

Nothing you say is going to change my mind, I and my family are too set in our ways. People who serve me food at McDonald's are doing the same as someone serving me food at Ruth's Christ. I don't tip at one and certainly don't tip at another.

Jane_Marlow August 3rd, 2004 04:11 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
"Those waitstaff feel no shame in cheating the government"

Just as you feel no shame in cheating the waitstaff.

Consider for a moment the fact that tipping is a custom in your new country.

Again, my mother came from a country where tipping is unheard of. In fact, it would be considered most unseemly. However, as a gracious person, she adopted American customs.

If one doesn't tip, perhaps one should not dine out, get a hair cut, etc. It's part of the system. Yours is recalcitrant behavior.

I do not feel it's my duty to recompense poorly paid workers. However, I am obliged and honored to pay completely for what I take. This includes a tip.

We of course cannot convince each other...however it's very interesting to see other people's points of view. Your case against tipping is odious and shallow. It's self-serving and inscrutable.

Perhaps, "I am a cheapskate who will use any means to justify my ickiness" Would be more appropriate than using that "foriegner bit" that simply doesn't fly.

TokyoRose August 3rd, 2004 04:47 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Your veiled trolling personal attacks show your intelligence level and your lack of knowledge of proper internet discourse. Therefore, further posts from you will be ignored.

The waitstaff know full well they are taking a job where tipping is a gratuity and not mandated. If they want better pay, perhaps they should get a better job.

As far as workers on a ship, they are given free room and board and their base salary alone is a higher monthly wage then some can earn in their own country. I do not feel for them either, they are not forced to take the job.

The practice of tipping is out of control in this country. First it was the waitstaff, next it was the hairdresser, then garbage men, then the housekeeper at a hotel and on and on and on.

And that bull about being away from their country and their family is just that bull. Tell that to a soldier stationed in a combat zone. Maybe you will tip them when you see one.

Paul B August 3rd, 2004 05:33 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Tokyo, have you ever received service from anyone anywhere that was so extraordinary that you felt you had to tip? Please tell me so that I can go there!

TokyoRose August 3rd, 2004 06:17 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Not once.

sls August 3rd, 2004 07:47 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!

How do you feel about military people in a combat zone that is paying no taxes.

I spent 24 years in the military, none in a combat zone, and have lived in Japan, Guam, Scotland and Hawaii outside the continental U.S. I have traveled extensively in Europe and been to Korea. I can't believe you don't ahve any compassion for your fellow man.


Jane_Marlow August 5th, 2004 04:40 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Perhaps you can speak your native language in America as well, as that is what you spoke growing up. See how well that is recieved.

Em August 5th, 2004 07:23 PM

Re: Re: Stop the Insanity!
To TokyoRose,

There but by the grace of God go I.
Yes, by the grace of God I do live in a place of wealth and classes. By your comments I have assumed you and your family do too, now. However, far too many others do not live in a place where there are many different levels of income and class. They were born in a place that there are the ones that have, and those that have nearly nothing. No middle class.
The staff on cruise ships come from all over the world. However, with all the hardships that they endure themselfs to while working on the ship, it's without question the working conditions are better than where they come from. So many are willing to sacrafice so their family at home can live a better life.
Appreciation of their hard work by a few dollars a day is the least another human could do for another.
Have you said to that room attendent that cleaning isn't necessary because you will clean up after yourself? Have you decided to only eat in buffets, because you are serving yourself, getting your own drink, gathering your own silverware? I haven't heard of a fast food joint on a ship yet, where you can pick up your meal in a paperbag!

Have read the current news that a non-removeable service fee has been started on one line, the other lines will not be far behind. This will be fine with me, because if I can't afford to vacation on a cruise with all the expenses, then I'll find an alternative vacations.
Remember that by the wrath of God might go you or I.

Thomas August 6th, 2004 09:11 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!

Why won't you sit down in a restaurant and announce to the server before you are served that they won't be getting a tip from you because you don't believe in it? That they should find a higher paying job if they aren't happy with the wages the employer is paying them? Huh?

That would be the respectable thing to do considering the servers work for tips, regardless if you believe in them or not, they DO work for tips. So be a responsible adult and let them know beforehand you will not add to their wages.


TokyoRose August 7th, 2004 12:52 AM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Nope, it is not MY job to announce my intention or not. It is there job to serve food. If they want higher wages, demand it from their employer. That is as ridiculous as telling someone who is a big tipper to announce it when they first meet their server.

Thomas August 7th, 2004 10:56 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Not quite.

You won't announce your intentions because you KNOW the result will be poor service. Admit it. It's one thing to be cheap, it's another to be deceitful.

You qualify for both.

If you're gonna ride the bus buy a ticket.


Post Edited (08-07-04 21:57)

TokyoRose August 7th, 2004 11:51 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
For the last time, Tipping is a gratuity, a thanks. It is never mandatory. Workers should do the jobs for which their are hired. I am not cheap at all thank you nor am I deceitful. Your posts are now ignored.

bicker August 8th, 2004 06:37 AM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Let's look at this from a different perspective, now that the only person defending depriving service workers of tips isn't participating any longer: Why do we, the rest of the folks, get so upset about "them"? There are a multitude of reasons, of course, but deep-down what are the really distressing aspects of this?

Is it just a matter of fairness to the service workers? How much of it is fairness to the rest of us, who are indeed conscientiously living-up to the expectations of service patrons? Or are there other issues? Outrage that someone considers themselves exempt from the normal standards of behavior in society? Concern that the transgressions of a few will undermine the status quo which we prefer?

I wonder, also, if the sheer number of different ways people can be upset about this make it the banner issue it is.

sls August 8th, 2004 10:24 AM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
I worked as a waitress once and depended on tips. I know how much they actually make an hour. I also know that some places if it's a slow day they are told to go home with no hourly pay.

Using the excuse that people under report tips with Uncle Sam for not tipping is just trying to find an excuse for cheapness.

I would like to see waitstaff personnel receive at least minimum wage and then tipping would be on merit. But then prices would have to rise and people would probably just go to Boston Market/McDonalds rather than say Applebees or Chili's.

And using the excuse that the service personnel on a ship are from a third world country and don't deserve more than room and board is an excuse for cheapness too.

Off my soap box.


Thomas August 8th, 2004 03:50 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!

Now you've identified the problem. You believe the tip is a thanks when in actuality it is wages. You know people depend on them for their income, yet you want to believe they are "thanks" so you can justify not tipping.

Why don't you let the server know in advance you won't be contributing to their wages? And why don't you tell them you won't be expressing your thanks (your words) with a tip?


bicker August 8th, 2004 04:51 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Knowing that gratuities are considered by most everyone as a means of providing a close tie between service quality and compensation for service, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that letting a service provider know that you won't compensate them at all, regardless of the level of service they provide you, would typically result to lower quality service. Unmitigated self-interest would tend to drive someone to silence rather than risking receiving service commensurate with the withholding of compensation they're planning to implement.

TokyoRose August 8th, 2004 06:53 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Well sls, I happen to know a few restaurant owners that pay minimum wage to their waiters. Those owners are out there. The ones I know keep their waitstaff for unheard of amounts of time. Those jobs are out there. Want a better job go find it. I work as a mother 24/7 365 days a year with no pay. It is a choice I made. I certainly do not expect to be compensated for my choice.

I also know quite a few employees of the cruiselines. They are guaranteed a base salary plus room & board that is quite higher than you might think. It certainly isn't $50 as bandied about on these boards. Sure there are passengers that leave gratuties which can make their "pay" much higher than their guarantee.

I also know on certain lines you as asked to tip people that you aren't on other lines. For the first time this summer I cruised on Celebrity in CC class after having been in lower cabins and as all suites were sold out. I was asked to pay $.50 more for a CC class cabin which was the same square footage as a 1A. There was nothing extra the steward did in the CC class room that the one in the 1A did the year before. They also ask you to tip the asst. maitre'd whom I never saw except at the last night with his hound out. They also ask you to tip the chief housekeeper whom I never saw at all.

On a cruise I am paying for my meals and accomodations. I do not pay extra to have it cleaned or to have my food served and I never will.

Dorothy August 9th, 2004 09:51 AM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Tokyo will never change her spots, folks.

She will never admit she is simply cheap and constructing a MASSIVE rationalization for her classless behavior.

My true beef with non-tippers is that it will force the cruiselines to make tips truly mandatory and call them "service charges." Some lines have apparently already gone down that road.

We will ALL pay for the non-tippers poor judgment and in the not so distant future.


TokyoRose August 9th, 2004 11:37 AM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Hey Dot,

Stop your rationlisation for behaviour and your ethnocentric view of the world. A large part of the world does not tip nor do the workers expect it. It has zero to do with class or cheapness.

Paul B August 9th, 2004 12:23 PM

Re: Re: Stop the Insanity!
Tokyo, I have been in many countries , and I have never been anywhere where some tipping, either directly or through a service charge, has not occurred.

Granted, we may overdo it a bit in the US , but I feel that employees on cruise ships deserve every bit I give them and even more for their magnificent service.

It is certainly your right not to tip, but please do not imply that the vast majority of those who do have a distorted view of the world. I wish that everyone could enjoy the standard of living that we do in this country.

bicker August 9th, 2004 02:20 PM

Re: Stop the Insanity!
Regardless, considerate folks never seek to impose the mores of their own culture on the cultures that they visit. When in Japan, I remove my shoes when I enter a home. When in India, I eat with my right hand. When in Egypt, I wear appropriately-conservative clothing. You are correct, however, that there is no requirement to be considerate.

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