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-   -   what if you just don't tip (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/tipping/300182-what-if-you-just-dont-tip.html)

donald white jr July 22nd, 2004 07:59 AM

what if you just don't tip
 
I have worked as a pizza delivery person, a waiter and a bartender. I have read that the tip envelopes are handed out at the end of a cruise so that is when you decide you want to tip, and I will tell you I am one that will probably ask for tips to be pre paid. Now if I don't believe that the crew deserves more I won't tip. But if for some reason I go with Crystal or Holland (I have heard Holland has a no tipping policy and thru a certain website Crystal offers a special where your tips are paid.) So what if I just don't tip. Working the above tips were always optional unless you had a big party. Now I am sure I will tip but if I don't have great service I won't what then.

lougee1043 July 22nd, 2004 12:53 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
hals tipping policy is the most understood --most people tip at the end of their cruise- also hal is now instituting a new policy where they are adding 15% to all bar bills and posting a set amount to your room charge every day --suggest you go to the hal board for the latest details ------------if you dont tip they will call you names but not to your face after they realize that you have stiffed them ---the same names you muttered when someone stiffed you as a pizza delivery person or a bartender --these people work hard for your tips-----------two wrongs dont make a right


donald white jr July 22nd, 2004 03:23 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Believe me I would tip if the service was worth it. I don't believe anyone in here would tip if they were completely dissatisfied, and even when I was counting on tips I knew in most cases my tip was based on the service they received.

JImeeee4 July 24th, 2004 09:25 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
The idea that tips should be based on service recived is long dead. It is expected even if the waiter spills your soup on you. And the 15% "gratuity" added to bar service had been going on for eons.

bicker July 25th, 2004 05:52 AM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
I disagree that the idea that tips should be based on service received is dead. It is still very much alive.

The disparity, I believe, stems from the fact that tipping is not zero-based. At a US restaurant for example, 15% is the baseline amount for service associated with a meal, not 0%. If the server is negligent or careless, that's one thing; the management should be informed, the server disciplined, and no tip would be appropriate. If, on the other hand, there is an accident, surely folks would be expected to use their discretion and reduce the tip, since the service wasn't without incident. The problem is that some people would actually think it appropriate to not tip at all, in that circumstance. That's indefensible IMHO. The server spent an hour serving you, and had an accident. Imagine making one mistake at work, and being docked your entire salary for the time you worked on that project.

So, the concept is alive and well. Some patrons, however, either are unable or unwilling to participate in the system with integrity, as the system is defined.

TokyoRose July 25th, 2004 01:39 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
The server does not spend an hour serving me. At best they are in contact with me and or my order for 7-10 minutes of that hour. That is what they are expected to do. If I go to Applebee's and order three courses and the next day go to Morton's and order three courses, the waiter spends the exact amount of time with me and my order. For someone who tips, there is no reason to base it on the amount of the purchase of the meal. You are paying for higher quality ingredients, expertise of the kitchen staff, however the purpose of the waiter is still the same.

Back to the original question, nothing happens if you just don't tip. I have never tipped on a cruise or at a land based restaurant or resort or hotel or motel and nothing has ever come about from not tipping.

bicker July 25th, 2004 02:53 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
"What they're expected to do"

I dispute your under-estimation of the amount of time the waiter and assistant waiter spends serving you, especially given all the work for you they need to do behind the scenes, but that's irrelevant given your statement here: If indeed that is "what they're expected to do," then in return you're expected to tip them, as per the tipping guidelines of the cruise line aboard ship, or 15% of the menu price for servers at land-based restaurants.

"There is no reason to base it on the amount of the purchase of the meal."

You're mistaken. Patronizing full-service restaurants in the United States carry with it the expectation to compensate the server as per the mores of our society, i.e., 15% of the menu price.

"nothing happens if you just don't tip"

That isn't true either. What, perhaps, you mean to say is that nothing happens to you, at least nothing physical or legal. However, something definitely does happen if you don't tip: A server doesn't get appropriately compensated for the work done. You get a bonus, in terms of financial enrichment, while a worker who performed a service for you gets little or no recompense for it. I can assure you that that is most assuredly something.

"I have never tipped on a cruise"

Which is as good an argument as any to increase the prices a few hundred dollars. I really prefer having the discretion of adjusting the tips up or down a few percent to reflect better or poorer service, but it isn't worth it if it means leaving service workers open to the abuse of being stiffed by people more concerned about their own financial gain than about living up to the mores of society, and civil expectations thereof.

sls July 25th, 2004 05:07 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Bicker ,

You will never change TokyoRose's stand. I hope someday someone in her family gets a job in waitstaff.

sls

lougee1043 July 26th, 2004 01:03 AM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
if you say its night (and it is) rose will tell you that is day and there is nothing you could possibly say to get her to change her mind ---she has a rep on a lot of boards --her goal is simply to rile people and then sit back and laugh at them ---dont remember what board it was on but she was a very active participant on the subject of breast feeding in the dining room a while back


sls July 26th, 2004 01:44 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Rose started the breastfeeding in the dining room thread.

TokyoRose July 26th, 2004 04:08 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
That has nothing to do with this thread. My friend however did get a personal letter of apology for the way the Maitre'd handled the situation. More women have since breasted in the dining room on formal and every other night with no such harrassment.

Dorothy July 28th, 2004 08:31 AM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Great post, Bicker - it really cut to the heart of the matter.

dorothy


JaneMarlow July 28th, 2004 02:58 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
What happens if you don't tip? Well, what happens is that you are a churlish little person, that is all.

donald white jr July 30th, 2004 03:56 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Toyko are you serious? If this service isn't good that is unacceptable that is one thing nobody can be taht much of an a**hole to say they don't tip anybody no matter how great the service is. What I can tell you when I was a waitperson I always remembered the stiffs. They never could figure out how someone that walked in 10 minutes after them was done eating before they were even served, or how come there water was only filled up once I could never answer that question or understand why they never came back...oh well guess I will never know.

ousoonerfanintexas July 30th, 2004 03:58 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Rose I bet you hate that automatic tipping policy on some cruise lines.

TokyoRose July 31st, 2004 06:23 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Donald,

I never ever tip ever. I was not born in this country and where I come from it is not expected. I do not tip a hotel maid and I certainly don't tip a cabin steward. I am expecting and paying for a clean comfortable room. No cabin steward or hotel room has ever exceeded my expectations.

As far as not tipping waitstaff at restaurants, I don't do it because of so many who have told me they do not report more than what their employer reports as tip income to the IRS. Those people are not paying their fair share in income taxes and I am partially subsidizing them flaunting the law. No one is forcing one to work on a cruise line. This nonsense about indentured servitude is just that; nonsense.

As far as oursoonerfanintexas is concerned, those lines that automatically include tipping on the onboard account get a visit by me at their respective purser's desks the very first day to have those charges removed. If I buy a drink, I take my pen and scratch through the line that says gratuity and label it what it is: a service charge.

donald white jr August 1st, 2004 04:27 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Toyko I still say you are pulling my leg even if you aren't from this country. I have been to other countries and they now about tipping.

Thomas August 1st, 2004 05:56 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
And by her own admission to earlier posts about this, TokyoRose will not tell the cabin steward or waiter in advance she will not be tipping. She wants to receive the same service as everyone else but won't be paying for it like everyone else.

If you're going to ride the bus Dear, buy a ticket!

Regards,
Thomas

TokyoRose August 1st, 2004 11:03 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Yes Thomas that is because the cruiseline pays their employees as it should be. If they want a better higher paying job, look elsewhere. Tipping is and always has been in the US voluntary not mandatory. They should be doing the job they were hired to do with no regard to a gratuity or not.

bicker August 2nd, 2004 06:40 AM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
You are misken. They are there to provide you service based solely and completely on the expectation that they will receive, on average, the suggested gratuities, should they do their job as expected.

ousoonerfanintexas August 2nd, 2004 07:30 AM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
I wonder ToykoRose by your log in name are you from Japan?

bicker August 2nd, 2004 08:00 AM

Re: Re: what if you just don't tip
 
TokyoRose is a Comcast customer... Almost surely United States.

donald white jr August 2nd, 2004 08:44 AM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Sooner what does that have to do with anything?

ousoonerfanintexas August 2nd, 2004 09:35 AM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
I was just wonering then if she still walks five paces behind her man?

Jane_Marlow August 2nd, 2004 04:08 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
When in Rome do as the Romans do.....My mother was not born in this country either. However, she is a gracious person and a great tipper.

Tokyo Rose, are you just an internet troll? Makes me wonder.

Jane_Marlow August 2nd, 2004 04:12 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
The historical Tokyo Rose wasn't from Japan. Further, it's quite ignorant to assume that Japanese women "walk behind their man."

However:

I agree that Rose is churlish, and being a foriegn is no excuse to be ignorant to tipping.

But again, it's a personal decision. Bad taste to be certain, but a personal choice. I wouldn't associate with a person who didn't tip as a rule. It speaks volumes about what is in his/her heart.

ousoonerfanintexas August 2nd, 2004 06:11 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
That wasn't a cut againt Japanese women or Japan. I believe this person is full of BS. So that is why I asked if you are from Japan and do you walk five paces behind your man.

TokyoRose August 2nd, 2004 10:33 PM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Jane I do not vacation in Rome so I do not do as the Romans do. Talk about a lack of taste, making personal attacks on an internet bulletin board.

Back to the original post, nothing happens if you do not tip. It is VOLUNTARY not MANDATORY.

bicker August 3rd, 2004 06:23 AM

Re: Re: what if you just don't tip
 
I never saw TokyoRose's response to my original reply, when she first asserted this very same thing: that nothing happens if you do not tip. Since she decided to repeat what she said earlier, I figure I should repeat what I said in reply, in case she missed it last time.

What, perhaps, you mean to say is that nothing happens to you, at least nothing physical or legal. However, something definitely does happen if you don't tip: A server doesn't get appropriately compensated for the work done. You get a bonus, in terms of financial enrichment, while a worker who performed a service for you gets little or no recompense for it. I can assure you that that is most assuredly something.

ousoonerfanintexas August 3rd, 2004 07:47 AM

Re: what if you just don't tip
 
Rose you are full of BS. There are alot of references to you being a woman and since you are so old school I am sure the man makes all the decisions for you, so you have no say. In fact you have probably have been on a talk show entitled "I call him master" Also I agree with Jane about associating with a stiff. You can say what you want I fully believe you are full of s**t


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