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Old October 8th, 2006, 12:22 PM
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Default Love this topic.... view from an insider

I am a waiter in the states, and used the job because of its schedule to raise my kids as a single parent. I am surprised that there are simply many people out there who don't understand that the tip that they leave, in many cases, is the only sourse of income that person gets. For years I have made $2.13 an hour, which is not even enough to cover my withholding taxes. I have not recieved a paycheck in years (I get a check for $0.00 that says accross the front "this is not a check"). Now, there are a lot of people out there who say that if I don't like it, I should change jobs; these are also the same people who constantly complain about bad service. If you want good service, pay for it. It costs no more to get your food to-go, in most cases, than it does to sit in a comfortable place and have someone wait on you hand and foot. In other words, you pay the same for the food even if you take it home and wait on yourself. The extra "tip" is for the work that we perform while you are sitting in the seat... Your server doesn't get any of the money that is used to pay your bill. Furthermore, the IRS will audit me if I don't claim at least 13% of my sales as tips, and this includes all of the money I have to tip the bartender, busser, and hostess (thats right, I have to pay other people with some of the money that you leave for a tip). So the government even expects you to tip, and they charge me in taxes what you are supposed to be leaving. Why else do you think that servers are allowed to be paid so much below the minimum wage? Because people are suppose to tip for the service they recieve.
Now, this said, there are two types of 'bad tippers'. There are those who are simply too cheap to tip, or those who look for a reason so that they don't have to tip. I am a good server, and work very hard for my money. That said, I make mistakes just as anyone else does at their job. Next time you make a mistake at work, ask yourself if you should not be paid for the hour that you worked, simply because you made a mistake. I would be willing to bet that few people will walk into thier bosses office and give them back the money that they didn't earn for that hour. We all make mistakes, and if your server is sincere about making the mistake, don't hold it against them. We all make them. The second type of bad tipper are the people who simply don't know any better. As a server, you know these people simply by the way that they tip you. Generally, they will shake your hand, tell you you did a great job, and give you a $5 tip on a $50 tab... not a very good tip. However, they are genuine about their tip, and believe they are doing a good thing. As a server, you just smile, and take it.... They don't know any better, and usually they are so sweet that you have to smile and let it go.
I enjoy my job, and love working with people. There are few things that are as rewarding as having someone come into my section who is just in a terrable mood, and doing a good enough job that they leave with a smile on thier face. As for the bad tippers that are simply cheap, or look for a reason not to tip.... know this... the servers where you regularly dine know you. Though in most places, no where that I have ever worked, are they going to do anything to your food, but they will fight over who has to wait on you. We watch who comes in the door, and when you walk through, the bickering and cussing begins... "I waited on them last time... its not fair that I should have to do it again!" And whoever gets stuck waiting on you comes out with a smile on their face, welcomes you back, and wants to stick needles in your eyes. It is not that we don't like you personally, it is simply that if there was a tipping customer sitting in your place, then we would be making money, rather than waisting our time (very valuable time, because waiting tables, the number of people that you get to wait on is very limited, and if you don't make the money off of the service you give those people, you can't pay your bills).
In closing, servers are a dime a dozen. Anyone can wait tables and make a meager living doing so. However, good servers are very rare. Few things are as bad as paying $75 for a meal, and getting poor service. You leave feeling like you were cheated, no matter how good the food was. It boils down to this, tipping has become so bad that the exceptional servers find that their tallent and effort is better compansated in other lines of work, and therefore they leave. Only the bad servers stay behind, because they cannot get a job anywhere else. So as a consumer, you get what you pay for.....
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Old October 12th, 2006, 10:43 PM
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Sorry!! But I must respond.

1. I pay what the menu says. I assume that my meal is served. I don't assume I must pay the servers salary. I do tip what I feel is deserved.

2. How many times has a person come in and bought a meal and it came tax and all to $9.75 and left you $12.00? Well on that meal you got a 23% tip.

3. If your idea of you need to get paid for your work is right then the next time you go car shopping make sure you buy something or at least give your salesman something for his time. VCar salesman get no pay unless you buy. Then they get a commission. Now I want to tell you something else. Many car salesman get $50.00 to $100.00 when you buy that $15,000 car. I know I was in the business many years.

A tip should not be expected. It should be earned. If your employer really cared for you then they would impose a manditory tip. Then I would get to chose if i wanted to eat in your place of employment.

I can't stand someone bad mouthing me because I choose not to go beyond what I consider a tip.

Once I was eating in a bar/resturant and when I left I left what I thought was a good tip. The server followed me outside and told me my tip wasn't enough. I said I will come back in and correct it. I walked back in and told the owner who I knew I want my tip back. Guess what I got it back and the server got nothing.

Just remember one thing sometimes you get a good tip and sometimes you get a poor tip and sometimes you get someplace in between. How much money did you make when it is all over for the week that is the question. If you think you haven't gotten enough in tips then find another way to make a living.

My wife owns her own business. Most of her business is on Saturday but her lease require her to be open 6 day a week from 8:00 a.m till 5:00 p.m. Most days through the week she doesn't do enough business pay the light bill, rent or give her anything for her time. But if she has a good Saturday she makes good money. She stays in business because she can make $500.00 for herself after expenses each week. As she says, "Somedays she gets the bear and some days the bear gets her but by weeks end she always gets the bear".

Just my thoughts, but I am sick and tired of people telling me how much to tip. I make what I make because I am good at what I do not because I complain about what I make.

Don
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Old October 12th, 2006, 11:28 PM
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I must repsond to your reply.

I don't know where you live but I do think that most people in the US know that waiter/waitress do not get paid much in hourly wage. And that they depend on tips for a living. This is definitely not a good thing but we must live with it. And our goverment lets this happen. Until this changes and they are paid a decent wage then we do need to tip.

When you get good service you should tip accordingly. Now I'm not going to tell you what is proper (everyone has own idea as to this). Also if you do not get good service the same goes, you tip what you consider proper. As for mandatory tips most resturants do impose a tip on parties of (usually) 8 or more. And personnaly there have been times when this amount is definitely more than we would have left due to bad service. I do think mandatory can be bad for service at times.

A good server would not go after a customer complaining about the tips left and I would have done the same as you did in that situation.

As for tipping on a ship unfortunately being mandatory has both it's good and bad. For my experience on ships I have seen very good service and feel that those that get the tips have earned them. I hope you do too.
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Old October 13th, 2006, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlb1050
I must repsond to your reply.

I don't know where you live but I do think that most people in the US know that waiter/waitress do not get paid much in hourly wage. And that they depend on tips for a living. This is definitely not a good thing but we must live with it. And our goverment lets this happen. Until this changes and they are paid a decent wage then we do need to tip.

When you get good service you should tip accordingly. Now I'm not going to tell you what is proper (everyone has own idea as to this). Also if you do not get good service the same goes, you tip what you consider proper. As for mandatory tips most resturants do impose a tip on parties of (usually) 8 or more. And personnaly there have been times when this amount is definitely more than we would have left due to bad service. I do think mandatory can be bad for service at times.

A good server would not go after a customer complaining about the tips left and I would have done the same as you did in that situation.

As for tipping on a ship unfortunately being mandatory has both it's good and bad. For my experience on ships I have seen very good service and feel that those that get the tips have earned them. I hope you do too.
Ok. Lets agree on some points.

Yes, minimum wage should be more than $2.13 for servers. Yes many many folks don't understand tipping is expected from both the server nd management.

But here iswhere we will disagree. The server knew, unless they were told a lie, what their salary would be. They knew or at least should of know some folks don't tip. But they still took the job.

In my company where I work I am the Senior Vice President. I oversee HR directly. I approve 99% of the new hires. Folks come to us and we go over our handbook, pay scale and benefits in fairly good detail before we ever offer a job. I want the person to understand what they are agreeing to. We pay fair but not good. Our benefts are excellant. You can work up to a really good salary but it will take you about 5 years.

Here is what burns me the most. Most not all new hires will agree with everything we tell them. They are just so glad to get a job with us. But low and behold on their 91st day, we have a 90 day probation period, they come into my office and tell me how they can't really make it on what we pay. Now granted we don't pay excellant but our starting salary for PT is $7.50 and we are in the south where cost of living is low. This iswhen I tell them you knew our pay policy 90 days ago. It hasn't changed and probably won't in the next few days or months.

My father taught me if you take a job for $2.00 an hour you give the person you work for a good days work. If you think you are worth $3.00 per hour don't take the$2.00 per hour job. Wait until someone see your true worth and offers you $3.00 per hour. What he was saying is this understand what the job pays then decide if you are willing to work hard for that amunt of money if not don't take the job. You agreetowork hard forthe salary you agree to accept. You can't adjust your working effort to your pay.

I now go back to servers. They shoud of known what they would make when they started. So if it isn't what they want go get another job. If ALL servers quit because they wanted more money guess what management would find a way to increase their salary. But here is my thinking on the subject. Remember this is MY idea and not anyone eses. Some folks go into serving as a living because they have been told it is good money andit can be. I have a personal friend who make over $30,000 a year and doesn't work that much. She says she averages $20.00 per hour. The good servers will make decent money but there some out there who I think should pay me. Because I have to tell them everything. If I am training them well.......

I do tip, I tip welll. All that burns me is the additute that I am cheating a person if I don't tip them well. I never hired them. If they have a problem then they need to talk to the managers of the establishment. I am sure if they are good enough servers and their service bring business into the establishment management will find a way to compensate them enough to keep them employed. It is pure and simple capitolism. If we couldn't hire folks for $7.50 to start; GUESS WHAT WE WOULD RAISE THE STARTING SALARY. The work mustbe done. So to all the servers out there. Stop complaning organize and revolt. We need you. If you convince us we need you we will pay you better or at least management will.

Don
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Old October 13th, 2006, 10:21 AM
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I cannot believe that the minimum wage is so low there.
In Canada it is over $5. for waitstaff plus tips.
How can people live on that ...no matter how hard you work you will never get ahead of the game.
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Old October 13th, 2006, 10:29 AM
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So to all the servers out there. Stop complaning organize and revolt. We need you. If you convince us we need you we will pay you better or at least management will.
Good thought in theory, but the bottom line is the bottom line. If salaries go up in businesses where people generally rely on tips, then the price goes up to compensate.

A good example is in our local job market, where the economy is hot, and getting staff of any kind has become amazingly difficult. A major national chain with MANY outlets here found they had to raise wages to attract more people. Sounds good right?

They also found they had to raise prices 10% across the board on every menu item in order to pay for the wage increases.

I'd say the lower prices are better, with me having some input into the amount I tip depending on how good the service is I receive.
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Old October 13th, 2006, 11:19 AM
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Don, of course the server knew what the hourly pay would be when they took the job. They hope that the tips they receive will be good enough for them to live on. If not then they will change place of employment.

As far as where you work starting people at $7.50 per hour for part time, I understand the person stating they can't live on that but I DO agree they knew the wage when they started and should never taken the position if they were going to try to live on that as sole income. Around here where I live unfortunately a lot of places use $7.50 or just slightly higher as a starting pay for full time and it is not a very nice site to see where these people have to live for that pay. The cost of living around here is not really high but it is much higher than what a lot of people are trying to live on.


Your statement:
"My father taught me if you take a job for $2.00 an hour you give the person you work for a good days work. If you think you are worth $3.00 per hour don't take the$2.00 per hour job. Wait until someone see your true worth and offers you $3.00 per hour. What he was saying is this understand what the job pays then decide if you are willing to work hard for that amunt of money if not don't take the job. You agreetowork hard forthe salary you agree to accept. You can't adjust your working effort to your pay."

I agree with that and was taught the same by my parents. I have taken a job with a starting pay slightly less than I had been making because I knew that I would be eligible for a raise after probation period that would bring me back to where I had been and that the benifits are better than before. Each time I have done this it has worked. Unfortunately the last company I worked for had a bad habit of trying to tell us that when we reveived a low %increase in salary that we had to figure in how much of a bonus we had received and so we really had gotten more. Usually we were told by just our supervisor, but one year it was being done by our supervisor and plant manager and assistant. The year they were doing this real hard ( giving no more that a 2% raise) it took me a bit to get them to understand that a raise (based on job performance) and a bonus ( based on how we had produced as a whole, including number of accidents, for the previous year and paid as a lump sum from company net profit) were 2 different things. When I asked for them to give me the definition of bonus they finally quit trying to add the 2 together. The following year unfortunately 85% of us were layed off because our industry was very badly affected by the hurricanes and only product in stock would be used and no new stock could be produced. I understood this and felt very lucky that they had worked with one of the cities here and FEMA and were able to get most of us temporary jobs. Then last year was not going to be any better and they were going to have to close one of the 3 plants they had in the state and ours was chosen based on what the costs to run it would be compared to what profit they would make and I understood that decision. But because of this I have decided that I will never work in that industry again.

My point being that we as individuals have to know wat we are getting into when we take any kind of job.

So actually Don, I think you and I agree on a lot.
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Old October 13th, 2006, 11:26 AM
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Kuki, I am glad you replied about that statement.

And I agree with you completely. It has to be the responsibility of the wait staff that they make a fair, good or great living by being a fair, good or great waiter.
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Old October 13th, 2006, 02:12 PM
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I guess people should just stay on social assistance rather than take a low paying job ....
Not everyone can hold out for the $7.50 hr jobs.

DH worked for $60K a year ..his job was made redundant he didn't hold out for another $60K job he took a PT job for $7.hr ...we have bills to pay and need to eat
Maybe the guy who works for $2 hr is just trying to survive

Anyway off my soapbox ...it is time to cruise!!
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Old October 13th, 2006, 02:52 PM
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Hey Kitty Canada, ever wonder why there is not a rush of waitstaff from the U.S. to Canada? You know like the rush of mexicans to U.S.A. There is a reason for that. These are two different economies. With two different tax structures and cost of living. Also, in some circumstances different restaurant volume of business.

But otherwise.... lately in U.S. servers mostly feel there duty is to bring your food and check. Heaven forbid they watch to make sure you have enough to drink (I find this a real rarety).

Aboard the ship I feel they do a fine job for the $10/day/person. The maitre de has to go down in history as the most useless person ever. I think they should have Hooter girls as maitre de's, so you get something for you money. Or better yet, canadian waitstaff, for surely they are appealling.
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Old October 13th, 2006, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fl_tpa_1956male
Hey Kitty Canada, ever wonder why there is not a rush of waitstaff from the U.S. to Canada? You know like the rush of mexicans to U.S.A. There is a reason for that. These are two different economies. With two different tax structures and cost of living. Also, in some circumstances different restaurant volume of business.
What would the reason be??
I am not sure if you have been to Canada but we have very high volume restaurants here and yes we do have waitstaff that bring your food and never return.
I find the cost of living is about the same in some U.S. cities.
We pay the same here for some things ...I found the price of groceries were higher in some parts of the U.S. than here.
Bread & cereal is more expensive in Texas than in Ontario as an example.

We do have a lot of Americans in Canada but most don't like the cold winter months as we don't like them much either that is why we travel to warmer climates!.


It is all relative!
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Old October 14th, 2006, 08:43 AM
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I just read over the post that I had writen, and it seems quite harsh, moreso than I had intended. My original intent was to inform people of the reason for tipping your server, and the pay structure that is behind it. My father, who is a very nice man, had no idea what servers made, and what was the idea behind tipping. He was under the impression that it was just an added bonus on top of what the server was already making. He was really shocked when he discovered the reality of the situation. I thought that more people could benifit by knowing how things really work as well. In most places, it is forbidden to ever discuss a tip with a customer; as the post mentions how the server followed the customer out into the parking lot to complain about the tip. This is a no-no... and in most places, as server gets fired for that; and rightfully so.
I guess my real gripe, and probably the stem of so much hostility, comes from the many posts that I read on this subject from people who refuse to tip, no matter how good the service is, and if the server doesn't like it, they should simply get a better job. These are the same people who are the first to complain about bad service, but it is the tip that insures the good service. The tip is 'payment' for the service you recieve, not a little added bonus that you hand out like welfare or something.
In closing, I would like to say that I think that tipping is a valuable part of the service industry, simply because it makes your server strive to be the best. A good server knows that if they do a great job, they will recieve a good tip, and it makes the server provide the customer the best service that they are capable of. This system gives the customer control over the level of service they recieve, and the ability to reward hard work, or punish poor behavior; whatever the case may be. This is a good thing, and a custom that is both good for the customer and the employee.
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Old October 14th, 2006, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jon8367

In closing, I would like to say that I think that tipping is a valuable part of the service industry, simply because it makes your server strive to be the best. A good server knows that if they do a great job, they will recieve a good tip, and it makes the server provide the customer the best service that they are capable of.
I agree that the server deserves a tip ....I am so surprised at the wages in the U.S. for waitstaff
I was checking for minimum wages where I live. It is a decent wage rate.
http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pdf/fs_wage.pdf

I don't know how service people live on $2 -3 hr.
I would be P***ed too if someone stiffed me!!
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Old October 15th, 2006, 06:09 PM
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Merry Christmas
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Old October 15th, 2006, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawcruiser

What do you think of that? I think it would get you extremely good service or at least the best service the server can provide.


Don
Well you asked so...
I think it is very condesending to treat anyone like that.
I have never tipped in advance and still received good service on a cruise. We do leave the auto tips on and tip extra at the end to those that have gone the extra mile.

You may want to have read
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Old October 16th, 2006, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitty2
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawcruiser

What do you think of that? I think it would get you extremely good service or at least the best service the server can provide.


Don
Well you asked so...
I think it is very condesending to treat anyone like that.
I have never tipped in advance and still received good service on a cruise. We do leave the auto tips on and tip extra at the end to those that have gone the extra mile.

You may want to have read
http://www.stainedapron.com/
I am glad you have had such good service. But I must really say that since automatic tipping MY received level of service has noticably dropped.

In my response I was just trying to show what I wanted and how I would reward if it was received.

I REFUSE to accept the fact I owe a good tip to anyone.

In my job. I know at the beginning of the year i will make so many dollars in a salary. But I also know if I go above and beyond I will receive a bonus. The bonus is for me to get or not. I know what level I must acheive to receive it. If I don't really care about anything extra then I just do enough to keep my job. I see the same with waiters, asst waiter and cabin stewards.

The main difference between me and the folks on the ship is I know my boss and have a history with him. If I go above and beyond I get the bonus. The folks on the ship have no idea who I am or what I am expecting and what they will get IF THEY MEET MY EXPECTATIONS.

HERE IS MY QUESTION WHAT IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM, Let folks guess what I want and how I will reward them or tell them up front what I expect and what the reward will be. What would you want if you were relying for my tip for your livelyhood?

Don
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Old October 16th, 2006, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawcruiser
The folks on the ship have no idea who I am or what I am expecting and what they will get IF THEY MEET MY EXPECTATIONS.

HERE IS MY QUESTION WHAT IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM, Let folks guess what I want and how I will reward them or tell them up front what I expect and what the reward will be. What would you want if you were relying for my tip for your livelyhood?

Don
I guess that is part of the problem!

Quote:
what they will get IF THEY MEET MY EXPECTATIONS
Your expectations may be higher than their job requirements.
It is like the guy snapping his fingers at the Waitstaff in and upscale restaurant!!!
Rude!

I have had bad service on NCL but other lines the crew work very hard to make sure the PAX are happy & get good service.
If you have a problem with the staff you should mention to their supervisor or to them directly at the time.
I do not see any reason one should have to "spell it out to them"
"Hey if you jump through my hoops I will reward you!"

If someone was being unreasonable to me as a waitress then I might give them poor service knowing they are going to stiff me anyway.

I have seen many people take off the tips and NOT tip at all because they didn't like the food, they didn't eat in the dining room only once, they didn't have the same server, they will get so much money from the other PAX, I need my money for the casino etc...etc..

We are all free to tip or not ...but not be rude or obnoxious about it

I will agree to disagree on this topic and move on!
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Old December 14th, 2006, 05:10 PM
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WOW! Everything you wrote is EXACTLY what I believe to be true! As a waitress my self, at a very familar restaurant in the U.S, I"m so glad your letting people know how it really is. I am a student, and for all the people that say get a new job, this is what i say to you, the hours are great when you are need to fit it around your class schedule, the place I work at is open to 2 a.m. I need to pay for the crazy expensive college I go to on top of my loans. But believe me I can't wait to get out of a job where people look down upon me, and snap their fingers at me and yell "Miss" across the room while I'm waiting on another table, how rude is that? In a couple of years I'll be a doctor, and people will look up to ME! Everyone needs to see the movie Waiting, how can people be so rude and down right mean to people they dont even know, i.e. servers. Like you said servers remember exactly what you look like, if you left a great tip or a bad one, and will still put on that great big happy face, even though you said no one does anything to the food, believe me servers do, or maybe theyll have one of the cooks do something, I'Ve seen it a million times!
You were so dead on about the two types, I can't stand it when People are like you are such a good server, and yadda yadda yadda, and then you have high hopes for a great tip and theyll be $3 on a $40 bill. I think most people dont know that we tip out the bartenders, bussers, and the host, where I work we also tip out the expo,who pulls your food, and the foodrunners, people that if were busy will run our food, And we tip out a set 2% of our SALES, not our tips to each one of those , its about 10% of our sales to other people, so if customers only tip us 10%, if that, I'm walking away with nothing!
For the person that said their father didn't even know, this might sound kinda harsh, but get with the times! Milk isn't 10 cents anymore.
I feel that all restaurants should add 15% mandatory, if you cant afford to tip, then don't go out at all, if the 15% is already added, then you have to afford it.
One more thing, Ive been stiffed before, twice, once from teenages, and the other from a middle aged couple, just to let people like you know, no matter what the bill is, I have TO PAY IT OUT OF MY OWN POCKET and you get written up. The restaurant does not care, they want their money!!!! I dont blame the teenagers, I blame their parents!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old December 22nd, 2006, 08:36 AM
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I own a restaurant and can tell you that waiting on tables is darn hard work. The pay can be very good if the server is really good, but there are always those people who refuse to tip, or tip very little.

It doesn't matter to me whether tipping is the cusom or not. Tipping is just one way of compensating the employee. If tipping were not the custom their salaries would be built into the price of the product. The customer always pays for the employee's wages. The hammer you buy at the hardware store has the employee's wages built into the price.
The television you buy at the store has the employee's wages built in too.

So when you go into the restaurant and buy a $10 dinner the wages are not built in. If tipping were not the custom that dinner would be $12 for the other $2 to go into the server's salary. Get a grip on reality people, you always pay for the salary, in one form or another.

Regards,
Thomas
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old December 22nd, 2006, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
I own a restaurant and can tell you that waiting on tables is darn hard work. The pay can be very good if the server is really good, but there are always those people who refuse to tip, or tip very little.

It doesn't matter to me whether tipping is the cusom or not. Tipping is just one way of compensating the employee. If tipping were not the custom their salaries would be built into the price of the product. The customer always pays for the employee's wages. The hammer you buy at the hardware store has the employee's wages built into the price.
The television you buy at the store has the employee's wages built in too.

So when you go into the restaurant and buy a $10 dinner the wages are not built in. If tipping were not the custom that dinner would be $12 for the other $2 to go into the server's salary. Get a grip on reality people, you always pay for the salary, in one form or another.

Regards,
Thomas
Merry Christmas

Don
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old June 2nd, 2007, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by dawcruiser
Just my thoughts, but I am sick and tired of people telling me how much to tip. I make what I make because I am good at what I do not because I complain about what I make.
Thank you, Don. I agree with you 100%. I too am tired of being told what is an "appropriate" tip ... yet, no one can seem to tell me what is "appropriate" service to earn that tip.

We've become a tip-oriented society today. It seems everyone has their hand out ... people who I would never think I would even be expected to tip ... the pilot who takes me for an aerobatics flight that I paid $500 for ... the skydiving instructor who takes me on a tandem jump (yes, I actually had the owner of a skydiving facility in Hawaii TELL me that an "appropriate" tip for the tandem instructor was $20 ... and another $20 for the video flyer. This on top of the $450 bucks I paid for the tandem jump and the DVD and stills package. Are we kidding here or what? Then walk into your local Dunkin Donuts some morning. See those tip cups at the register. Wait a minute. I thought tipping was appropriate when you received table service ... not when you went to a counter to get your own food?

It is getting ridiculous in that we, the public, are now being asked to subsidize the wages of service people. I thought it was the employer's job to pay his employees? Why am I now being asked to do it?

I have no problem tipping in certain circumstances when someone really takes good care of me and makes my experience extra special ... be that a waiter, a bartender, etc. But I do have a problem with a tip being expected as the norm, regardless of the service ... when the person serving me is doing little more than delivering my food to the table. I have a real problem being expected to tip someone who is doing nothing more than pouring me a cup of coffee from an urn, and then collecting my payment for it at the register. If I'm buying the coffee, shouldn't the cost of a server to get it for me be included in the price?

All I can say is tip according to your conscious ... and don't let anyone tell you what is expected. You make that determination.

Blue skies ...

--rita
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas
The television you buy at the store has the employee's wages built in too.

So when you go into the restaurant and buy a $10 dinner the wages are not built in. If tipping were not the custom that dinner would be $12 for the other $2 to go into the server's salary. Get a grip on reality people, you always pay for the salary, in one form or another.
The owner of that store has to keep that television competitively priced ... or else, I'll go buy it somewhere else. You, as a restaurant owner will have to keep your prices in line with similar establishments, or else your employees will have no customers to serve.

If the price of service is included in the price of my television set, and that television set is priced at a point where I consider it a good deal and will buy it ... without even imagining greasing the palm of the salesperson with extra dollars ... then why not the same for a restaurant? Why should I be told that 20% of the price of my meal is an "appropriate" tip? If I wanted to hand the waiter $5 for a $40 meal, shouldn't that amount be graciously accepted as something ABOVE and BEYOND what I am obligated to pay?

I'm sorry ... I don't argue with you that waiting tables is hard work. I did it for only one summer at a resort area ... and I was still a teenager then. I remember coming home to the cottage we were staying at ... absolutely exhausted after a six-hour shift. The place I worked at was a breakfast dive ... busy but not fancy ... and if I brought home $25 in tips for that six-hour shift, I did good. But I could never understand why my salary for the week was only about $45 ... in cash ... in a pay envelope. Why wasn't my employer paying me a bit more for the work I was doing for him? After all, that work was not all serving customers. Sometimes I had to do side work too ... like cleaning the coffee urns after we closed for the breakfast shift, or cleaning and setting some tables so that everything would be ready when the restaurant opened for the dinner service. Where was my adequate pay for that work? I surely didn't get any tips from the owner for cleaning those urns extra well.

True, your employees break their backs. No argument there. The job is back breaking. But then, don't you think that perhaps YOU should be the one rewarding them and not me? After all, I'm the one paying for the meal at your restaurant. If I don't come in, you don't stay in business, right? I pay you when I buy a meal that clearly has a profit margin for your restaurant built into its price. Thus, it would seem to me that you should be the one primary in taking care of those in your employ. My tips should be nothing more than gravy for them.

Blue skies ...

--rita
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old June 2nd, 2007, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: WOW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by k88
You were so dead on about the two types, I can't stand it when People are like you are such a good server, and yadda yadda yadda, and then you have high hopes for a great tip and theyll be $3 on a $40 bill. I think most people dont know that we tip out the bartenders, bussers, and the host, where I work we also tip out the expo,who pulls your food, and the foodrunners, people that if were busy will run our food, And we tip out a set 2% of our SALES, not our tips to each one of those , its about 10% of our sales to other people, so if customers only tip us 10%, if that, I'm walking away with nothing!
Then perhaps you all need to get together and have a meeting with the boss if you feel your working conditions are not fair. If you're getting tips that are discretionary, yet are expected to tip other employees based on sales ... not tips ... then something at that restaurant is very unfair and you and all of your fellow workers need to get together and corner the boss about it. If everyone was of the same mind, the boss would have no choice but to re-examine the policy. Otherwise, he may have a hard time keeping employees. No employees means he can't run his restaurant, right?

All I am saying here is that I shouldn't be EXPECTED to pay your wages. That's your boss' job. I will certainly tip ... and believe me, I do tip well ... but only when I receive good service. I generally take my 93 year old father out to dinner twice a week ... nothing fancy generally ... a local diner, Denny's ... occasionally an Olive Garden or Outback Steakhouse. When the server takes good care of my dad ... keeps a smile on his face ... makes sure his coffee cup never goes dry (he loves his coffee), jokes with him, etc. ... believe me, I am known to tip well over 20% in some cases. But if I get a server who merely does his job ... nothing extra ... I feel like I am being pressured when I am told that an "appropriate" tip is 20%.

You say some people are rude ... yelling across the restaurant for a server ... snapping their fingers, etc. I am sure there are some plain rude people out there, but in some cases could it be that perhaps that server is not doing their job properly? Why do the patrons have to call her? Isn't she checking in with the table on a regular basis to see if they need anything? If she was doing that, they wouldn't need to call her, right?

Again, I'm not arguing that you work hard. I am sorry if some people look down on you. I certainly never look down on the people who serve me in a restaurant. They are folks just like me ... earning a living in the best way that they can given their circumstances. I'm no better than them just because I break my back in a computer center instead of a restaurant. We're all just trying to pay the bills in whatever way we can.

So, if you work hard ... and I have no doubt that you do ... then you need to get together with others at your restaurant and complain if the compensation plan is not fair. Perhaps you even need to consider the possibility of joining a union. Either way, you deserve to be paid a fair wage. The argument I have is about just who is expected to pay it.

Blue skies ...

--rita
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