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  #1 (permalink)  
Old September 11th, 2000, 08:56 PM
Spencer
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Default dangerous liners

My wife would like to take a cruise but i'm too concerned about
ship design.
After building boats most of my life and have rudimentary naval architecture knowledge i've come to the conclusion that these ships look
like they have too much top hamper. When i read how many swimming
pools are above the water line i was even more concerned.
In simplistic terms, top hamper is the amount of junk you pile, and the number of things you build above the waterline on a ship, like cabins that
really should go below, and the worst.., swimming pools. This stuff also
acts has a sail pushing the ship sideways further adding to the danger.
A good example would be like piling pennies on a toy ship in the
bathtub. The more you pile the lower it sinks, and finally it tips over
sideways (port or starboard) because it's too heavy. Now, say it
took 10 pennies to tip, you could pile on 8 pennies and nothing happens,
in fact everything looks fine. Then you apply a small wave, or place a
fan near it and sure enough it tips.
For our larger scale cousin, the liner, that would be a heavy gale, like the sailing through the Horn of Africa in specific seasons, or unexpected or
unreported storms. How can we be assured that these liners are safe and can withstand sudden hurricanes and gales ?. How much of common sense ship building has been sacrificed to more "dependable" radar?. Is radar weather reports and radio contact the only re-assurance?. Suppose the radios conk out, then what?
International laws should insist that these ships be tested with full
compliment of staff and provishioned with maximum cargo and weighted to
the designed water line. They then should be deliberatley sailed through gales and specified weather before being delivered to the public.
Actually that should be one of the cruise options "New!!!, Sale the Horn for $1000.00, a 3 day excursion!". Why not.
What an adventure......., what a test.

Spencer.
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Old September 12th, 2000, 09:24 AM
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Default RE: dangerous liners

Spencer...

You are certainly not the first person who has ever voiced this concern. In actuality it takes a very high storm to tip a ship to the point of a breach (where water can get into opening and start to flood the ship and eventually cause it to sink), but it is said the QE2 once came very close in the North Atlantic.
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Old September 12th, 2000, 10:13 AM
Spencer
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Default RE: dangerous liners

Yes Paul, and what is sad is that people will still use them still. I
think it is called the danger factor. Instead of heeding the warning, it
adds a bit of excitement to it.
It will happen one day and the "WhiteStar Aristocrates" will weasle
their way out of it once more and wait for the dust (spray) to settle
before rebuilding again.
"Just one more swimming pool you ask, well sure captain, there's always room for one more. Topside is a good place."

Spence
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Old September 19th, 2000, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: dangerous liners

To allay a bit of your concerns, in my experience the pools are always drained in heavy weather.
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Old September 21st, 2000, 01:04 AM
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Default RE: dangerous liners

Just a question. I don't know anything at all about ship building. It just seems I haven't heard too much about ships having accidents or sinking in recent years. There seems to be a lot more airplane accidents then ship accidents. Is this really something too worry about? I think you should just enjoy life and not worry. If it's your time to go, you are going whether you are on a ship or sitting at your desk at work.
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Old September 21st, 2000, 10:42 AM
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Default RE: Boomer Crusie Line

Hi:

Let we "weigh" in on this.
After much reading on cruises I have come to the conclusion that the Captain is responsible for the lives of his passangers an crew. He is also responsible for the multi million dollar investment his company has made in a state-of-the-art vessel. The Captain makes a choice when weather closes in. Stay in port and cancel the cruise or...go around it while changing the port of call. They are not stupid. Nobody wants to sail on "Boomer Cruise Lines".
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Old September 23rd, 2000, 08:16 PM
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Default RE: dangerous liners

Top deck swimming pools are typically drained when seas are very choppy. First, they're covered with netting. If and when weather worsens, they are drained.

Also, when ships are built or even when they undergo conversion, data is fed into a computer and all contingencies are considered. When I worked for a small cruise line, our system operators would do the math if, for instance, a full load of passengers rushed to one side of the ship all at once. Ballast and other compensations automatically went into effect to counter balance.

Although we didn't have topside pools, I'm sure the math gurus would have simulated mathematical dangers on their computers to have procedures in place to immediately compensate for the top-heaviness.

Ships nowadays are very well built. Of course, one can never anticipate the rare rogue wave but mostly, a ship is about the safest place you can be. When storms are predicted, ships go someplace else. Etc., etc.
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Old October 10th, 2000, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: dangerous liners

Spencer....ease up and relax....you may have sound reasoning...but do the statistics on the number of cruises vs the number of disasters....I have crossed the atlantic in a cruise ship and fought gale force winds in a 32' sailboat in tripple currents...making it through the shoals of Nantucket Harbor....and I am still here, as are both vessels.It's all just fun. So put down your slide rule and sail...!!!
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Old October 12th, 2000, 09:11 PM
sea lady
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Default RE: dangerous liners

good advice sea lady's sister... been on a cruise ship in 17 ft waves for 3 days... the only problem was the winds and waveswhen going out on deck... great cruise... the QE2 hit a 100 ft wave in 95... crumpled the bow a bit but the ship continued on safely.... as my sister said... relax and enjoy your cruise...
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Old November 18th, 2000, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: dangerous liners

I don't think first time cruisers should read this post..lol....ohhhhhh myyyyyy. BUT I'm still sailing and I plan on enjoying every minute. When it's my time to go, it won't matter where I am
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Old December 10th, 2000, 02:58 PM
Tim Agg
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Default RE: dangerous liners

If you want to get a sense of the capacities and tolerances designed into new cruise ships, on your next cruise take the navigation bridge tour [if these are nor advertised, just ask at the front office], and put your questions to the deck officers. They will be delighted to explain, amomg other things, how they monitor the ship's balance and adjust the ballast system to keep the ship level. . . Also ask them about emergency stops - the newer ships can stop in a single length, but officers claim they never get the chance to try it [think of the crockery and glassware].
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Old December 30th, 2000, 07:05 PM
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Default RE: dangerous liners

Hi Buddy, I say I cannot dispute your facts. A problem with the current batch of cruise ships is that the have a draft of about 21-23 feet below the water line. Experience has shown they do not take rough weather very well, even if the swells or sea is not high.. On January 31, 1976 the Holland America Cruise Line Rotterdam was outside of the harbor at Casablanca, North Africa waiting for a pilot when it was struck by a tidal wave. The tidal wave was caused by an underground earthquake and the wave was reported to be 60-100 feet high causing the vessel to roll from 40-70 degrees. Many passengers were injured and there was extensive damage to the interior of the ship. Several years agom while on another HAL ship I met an office who was aboard the Rotterdam on that day and he confirmed what I had learned about the incident.The Rotterdam did not have the flat bottms the current ships have.
HannaS77
a/k/a mors @aol.com
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Old May 5th, 2001, 06:46 PM
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Default RE: dangerous liners

I have been on four cruises and can say you are very correct in your views. The early ocean liners like the queens of the past were very deep draft ships. 40 feet below the waterline. The North Atalntic is a very dangerous place for ships to sail.
The Queens sailed through these water and took alot of punisment. They were not top heavy. They had high freeboards but lacked a great deal of top hamper. In the Carribean cruise ships are fine but I would think twice about a crossing. You would have to have the guts of a tin can sailor!
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Old October 7th, 2001, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: dangerous liners

Just wondering how many ''sudden hurricanes" you've experienced.
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