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  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 19th, 2002, 01:08 PM
HannaS77
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Default Carnival v. Princess Cruises

The latest is that Carnival has increased it's offer to buy Princess Cruises, it appears that Princess really may not be inclined to be taken over by Carnival.

It is interesting to note that Carnival has advised Princess management that under the operational plan between Princess and Royal Caribbean, Princess might lose the benefit of IRS Code Section 833. This is the section that exempts foreign flagged cruise ships from paying corporate income tax on their earnings.This provision makes it hard for American flagged vessels to compete with foreign flagged ships. The exemption also has the benefit of foreign ship lenders of funds to build ships in foreign ship yards since the exemption may insure the ship owners have enough earnings to pay off the low interest loans. Time will tell the outcome.
HannaS77
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Old January 19th, 2002, 11:52 PM
Aaron
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Default Re: Carnival v. Princess Cruises

Since I think RCL destroyed Celebrity, I hope that Princess (my favorite line) is taken over by Carnival. They seem to have what it takes to make a line grow under their wings.
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Old January 20th, 2002, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: Carnival v. Princess Cruises

I have a stock ticker on my homepage and I have noticed lately that RCI stock has risen and Carnival's has fallen.

I have also talked to several groups of folks in the 20's, 30's and early 40's who cruised Carnival and were very dissapointed. All were asking lots of questions and making comparisons with my experiences on RCI and Celebrity.

Don't know what that means but I can guess.

Judy
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Old January 20th, 2002, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: Carnival v. Princess Cruises

Aaron I'm with you 100% Carnival does a great job with HAL and I believe it would carry over to Princess. Many believe that HAL and Princess would be direct competitors. I never traveled on HAL but I love Princess. I always thought HAL offered a different cruise experience than Princess and there would be no conflict between the two
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Old January 20th, 2002, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Carnival v. Princess Cruises

Aaron......can you expand on that......in what ways do you think RCL has hurt Celebrity? Deb and I have sailed Celebrity and Carnival and preferred Celebrity. My question is'nt "loaded" ..Really would like to hear your opinion on how RCL has hurt Celebrity. Thanks
Semper Fi
Rick
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Old January 20th, 2002, 07:15 PM
Roe-Z
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Default Re: Carnival v. Princess Cruises

Hi Judy,
What would your guess be? Is Carnival getting "to grown up" for the "younger crowd"? I always thought Carnival was a party ship, but it appears they are changing that image just enough to get others interested.ie: familes with children, older adults who are still active or young adults who what more than party bashing and "wild" nights. This is not meant to be an argumentive comment, but there seems to be an image that Carnival had (has) that is leaving many wondering what is happening.
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Old January 24th, 2002, 12:28 PM
Aaron
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Default Re: Carnival v. Princess Cruises

Having sailed Celebrity before and after, we found many things that RCL had changed that detracted from the high image that Celebrity had. Some small things like, crepe' in the dining room, a standard fare on cruise ships, can now only be had in the upscale +$ restaurants, as well as espresso and capuccino(sp?) were no longer standard offerings. Also bananas foster is another example that comes to mind. Many of the changes appeared in the dining venues. One night I happened not to like any of the offerings and it took a conference with 4 people just to get a steak, they wanted me to move to the Olympic dining room for that!

Outside the main dining room, I found changes in all the other food venues and the times that they were offered. I remember one afternoon upon returning to the ship from a port call the only food was "tea sandwiches", which they ran out of, and had 200 people in line. Planning? or just tightening the $'s?

We found ourselves getting nickle and dimed to death on the Millie, and never had that feeling on the Horizon years earlier.

Carnival doesn't pretend to be an upscale line. RCL does, and actually they are offering the same product as Carnival. These are the 2 MASS market cruiselines. RCL came from a long and rich past, and came down to the mass market level while pretending to still be upperclass cruising. Carnival on the otherhand came from meager beginnings as a party boat, and has grown enourmously. They have both met in the middle, and offer the same product. Just compare prices and you will see that they are the same, and after the same cruise passenger. The days of the Carnival "party" boat atmosphere is long past and they still get a bad rap because of from whence they come. Carnival has probably gone overboard (excuse the pun) in changing the onboard experience. There are security guards to enforce the rules so that the crew doesn't have to. They put many more limitations on ages of cruisers in cabins, than does RCL, and limits on "things to do" by age and enforce them. They are not the drunken booze cruzes of the past. I had more problems on RCL than I ever did on Carnival, concerning drunk and disorderly pax.

Princess is now in a class by themselves, and I do not wish to see them fall like Celebrity did. Princess is my favorite line at this point in time, and that too may change. I am 48 hours away from NCL Sky which I am excited because I think it is an entirely different cruise experience. when I say that Princess is in a class by themselves, HAL is undergoing many changes to make themselves more mainstream, and they were the competition to Princess as far as I was concerned. If Princess, HAL, Celebrity, Costa, RCL & Carnival all offer the same product, it will be very boring, and a large price jump to Crystal!
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Old January 24th, 2002, 05:20 PM
HannaS77
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Default Re: Carnival v. Princess Cruises

According to an article on the subject in the Wall Street earlier this week, Princess does not want to dance with Carnival. Princess does not even want to talk with Carnival.If matters proceed on this course, Carnival will have to use a hostile take over approach. The proposed wedding between RCI and Princess has me wondering which cruise line has financial problems, otherwise the marriage makes little sense. It was interesting that Carnival tried to give Princess and RCI some advise when it went on to tell Princess that it could lose the benefit of IRS Section 883 that exempts foreign flagged cruise lines from paying federal corporation takes.

One of the response mentions the stocks of RCI and Carnival. I read the Wall Street Journal and found over the years when RCI stock goes up, Carnival goes down and the following week when Carnival stock goes up, RCI stock goes down.

My wife and I started to cruise with Princess way back when they had only one ship, the Carla C which they named the Princess Carla. We like Princess although evry once in while we might have had a cruise where food was not too attractive. My opinion about the marriage is that Carnival usually has gone after cruise lines in financial trouble, offering to take over at a rock bottom price. They missed out on NCL and Celebrity. However, based on what has transpired, a marriage between Princess and Carnival may make more sense since Carnival has generally(not totally) left HAL and Cunard alone. We cruise a lot with HAL and Princess and b about the onloy difference we note is that on HAL ships the O/S staterroms have those terribly high side bathtubs to take a shower and Princess uses stall showers. There was a time when the average age of passengers was senior citizens travelling with their parents; age on Princess was slightly, but not much younger.

I read recently where a ship yard has begun to start the construction of the largest cruise ship in the World for Cunard to be called the Queen Mary 2.

We have cruised for many years aboard many ships, many of which are no longer around, and it was only in 2000 that we ever set foot aboard a Carnival ship. We had heard all those time worn tales, but I always felt there must be some truth to these because of the number of lawsuits filed against Carnioval annually. Often there were more law suits filed in the Miami courts than all the other cruise lines using Florida as their forum for filing suit. We have cruised four times on the Elation since it is convenient for us to embark and disembark in San Pedro(LA) and were surprised on the quality of food, service and entertainment. Of course there were a lot of children and young people but in my senior years I like to be around kids since I used act like them when young. "Growing Old Sucks."
HannaS77
:
>
> Hi Judy,
> What would your guess be? Is Carnival getting "to grown up"
> for the "younger crowd"? I always thought Carnival was a
> party ship, but it appears they are changing that image just
> enough to get others interested.ie: familes with children,
> older adults who are still active or young adults who what
> more than party bashing and "wild" nights. This is not meant
> to be an argumentive comment, but there seems to be an image
> that Carnival had (has) that is leaving many wondering what
> is happening.
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