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Travel Gripes! Gripe about cruises or getting to one.(airlines, taxis)

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2002, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: People who gripe about children

Obviously you did'nt read t he post very well. Hands all over eachother???? lol...I refuse to debate you because you obviously have a problem with gay men. Re-read the post or don't.
With Affection.........

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2002, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: People who gripe about children

Thanks buddy! You and Debb have a great one also. I'm starting to slow down at work and not thinking to serious. We are going throught our check list. No matter how hard you try you always forget something. Thank you also Jodi. I will miss this board for a week, but I'm am looking foward to getting away from computer screens.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old April 14th, 2002, 11:51 AM
holly
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Default Re: Re: People who gripe about children

Recently did a carnval cruise. 8 day spirit exotic on 12/13/01. Very few kids aboard. Notice we chose a slightly longer voyage, avoided school vacations. The problem is NOT a general carnival one but the choice of dates and itinearies in addition to irresponsible parents who will, most likely always be with us.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2002, 07:00 AM
Marnie
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Default Re: People who gripe about children

A lot of people view cruises the same way they view dining in a fine restaurant. Whatever is acceptable for a fine restaurant, the same should go for a cruise. I'm not wild about the dress codes, but I abide by them, because I would do the same for a fine restaurant. Does anyone take little kids to fine restaurants? I've never seen it. So I don't understand why they'll take them to the dining room especially with all the alternative choices.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2002, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: Re: People who gripe about children

I am a teacher so I can't avoid school vacations, and I'm sorry but when I go to dinner I want to chat with adults since I have to eat with kids when at home. Does this make me a warped individual?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2002, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: People who gripe about children

Thank you for choosing a vocation that contributes so much to our future. You certainly deserve more pay and recognition than you get.

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  #37 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2002, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: People who gripe about children

Yes, sometimes we do take our daughter to a fine restaurant especially if we are celebrating some type of special occassion. When she was a bit younger, say around 1 yr old, we did not take her to fine restaurants because she was too young to understand the behaviour required. Now that she is 3 she is able to sit still longer and enjoy a nice meal. Of course, I will bring a quiet toy for her to have at the table just in case. I've seen young children in fine restaurants many times. I think as long as they are not disruptive than it shouldn't be a problem. OF COURSE we want to enjoy a nice meal in the dining room just like anyone else on the cruise.

I don't think anyone is warped if they simply prefer not to sit at a table with children. Choose a later dining time or simple ask for a table with all adults, that's your perogative. I was simply offended by the people who seem to act as if someone with a child should not even be allowed to go on a cruise.

Some people act as if a person who has a child should only be allowed to eat at McDonalds and vacation at an amusement park. Gimme a break! I have read posts from many other people on this and other boards who have had a great experience taking a cruise with a young child. Parents and others!

If the thought of a child on a cruise turns your stomach so much then call the major cruise lines and ask them why they are hiring college educated youth staff, dedicating an entire area for children on the ship, offer family staterooms, plan tons of awesome activities for children on and off the ship, have a special menu just for children, and the list goes on. Families like AND deserve to take nice vacations too.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2002, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: People who gripe about children

Hate to comment on this subject because I realize that it's a no-win situation. No one is right and no one is wrong......HOWEVER, I'd to share a situation that we fell into on our last cruise - involving a toddler.

We always select late seating for dinner. On this particular cruise, we noticed on the first night that there was a toddler with her mother (Spanish - speaking woman) seated at a banquette near our table for 8. The first evening, we all noticed that the toddler's mother was not keeping very good track of her daughter because when the child finished her meal - she left the table and made the entire dining room her personal play area.

The second evening - the same thing happened. The child finished her meal and ran around the dining room - dancing and dropping to the floor and giggling, pretending she was resting, I guess.

Keep in mind that not everyone is served at or finishes their meals at the same time, i.e., the wait staff was still serving as well as clearing the tables as this child was performing. We watched her mother to see if she would do anything about the child's inappropriate behavior. She did nothing.

The third evening, I had just mentioned to our group that someone really needed to say something to the child's mother because she was going to get hurt or cause one of the wait staff to have an accident.

No sooner was the thought out of my mouth when there was a loud crash - and FOOD AND DRINKS sprayed virtually everyone at the table next to us. The child was running full-speed down the main aisle and, apparently, the waiter/busboy didn't see her. The heaping tray he was carrying was flung far and wide with the contents ending up on several folks seated nearby. We were horrified - and I have NEVER, EVER felt so SORRY for anyone in my life as I did for the poor, poor bus boy. He had a horrible look on his face!

Of course everyone was concerned that the child might have been hurt - fortunately she was not! Her mother did run over to collect her daughter at that point. I could not hear what she said to the wait person who tripped over her daughter - but she was appeared to be blaming him for the accident which her daughter caused! What incredible nerve the woman had. I still can't believe her reaction.

Don't know how the folks who got food and drink flung all over them went about handling the cleaning bill - but if it had been me - I'd have marched right over to the child's mother and advised her that I'd be advising the ship's cleaning staff to forward the cleaning bill to her account!

This gal didn't learn a thing as she showed up in the dining room every night of the 7 night cruise with the toddler. And everynight the same scenario took place - fortunately, the wait staff were watching for this holy terror after the incident above and there were no more accidents.

On the last night, as I was leaving the dining room, this child ran out of a side aisle as I was leaving the dining room via the main aisle - and nearly knocked me over - neither she or her mother had learned a thing from the accident above.

A million times since that cruise, I wished that I had marched right over to that woman and told her what kind of mother I thought she was.

Sorry for such a long, drawn out story - but anyone who takes a child onto a ship should - NO: MUST! be responsible for the child's actions. We've met some wonderfully delightful children and their parent's on many cruises - the case stated above was certainly an exception - but it sure had the potential for disaster. If that child performed in the dining room with such reckless abandon - how did she perform elsewhere on the ship?

Personally, I'd never take a toddler on a cruise. I get paranoid about my husband falling overboard or getting sick or hurt - I'd never make it through a cruise worrying about my child going overboard or getting sick or hurt as well!

Pooder
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2002, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Re: People who gripe about children

Thats terrible. One question......why did'nt someone complain to the resturant manager? If I had been there ...The manager and I would have been having a very deep conversation about that type of behavior allowed by the childs mother. We have not seen anything that bad in the dining room YET <G>.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2002, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: People who gripe about children

That is horrible!! I have seen parents like that. Hayley has a friend that we don't invite over to our home anymore because her mother always lets her demolish my home without ever saying a word. No doubt there are children and parents like in that story out there. I wonder how many other well behaved children there were in that dining room that you never noticed because of the one little terror. I also agree that this story illustrates the exception and not the rule.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old April 15th, 2002, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: People who gripe about children

Some one should have said something to the mother. Another story about adults that parent part time. Children who have not been taught to sit still and eat shound not cruise! Cinn and I eat out once a week. We can never get a baby sitter so when we go out we practice the same day to day habits. No one get up until everyone is finnished and no toys or books at the table. Was it hard to teach them. Hell Yes! But they know whats expected. To behonest once my older son learned , my younger son followed the same steps. If I did not believe they could behave, I would not take them. Peace!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old April 16th, 2002, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: People who gripe about children

First of all I am a different Shelly-but thank you all for the Kudos when you thought I was the original poster of this thread.(sorry this missive is long)

I have a 14, 10, and almost 2 year old. There have been varying times of their lives that I would have taken them on a cruise and a few stages where I wouldn't even take the two older ones to McDonalds. When they were past three and before about 8 my two older ones were "perfect angels" then for a few years they were uncivilized. I don't know which part I get to take the credit/blame for, but the older two are now civilized and as good of company at a nice dinner as any adult and better than many.

My 21 mo. old almost got to go on a 12 nite cruise with me until I found out that the charges would be ALOT and I came to my senses and decided against it.(I was looking at his sweet little self as he took his nightime bottle and I couldn't imagine leaving him for that long-he really is adorable) I knew however as I contemplated it that my cruise vacation would be vastly different if we decided to take him. I would no longer have any need for my lovely formal wear for example and I would kiss any shore excursions goodbye.

Someday I will take my kids on a cruise that is suited for children-like Disney. I do think that cruising is a family vacation if the FAMILY is taking a vacation. Who is the vacation God that says cruising is just for adults? My most fond vacation as a child was when my dad chartered a large motorboat for a couple of weeks and we cruised around the San Juan Islands in WA state and in British Columbia, Canada. Not a cruise ship, but the fun, sun and water and beaches were wonderful, we went to different places, cities and small towns, where we too had shore excursions and went to restaurants. And we didn't fall off the boat or stage a mutiny or anything. It was a grand adventure, but not everyone's dad can skipper a boat, so there are cruise ships. . .so even stuffy old guys can have fun if they will.

I promise, I will never allow(and yes, parents can control a 3 year old-we are bigger than they are!) my children to be unruly in public for any longer than it takes to remove them. And I wish friends and spouses could say the same of the guys who are busy getting loaded the whole cruise. There are pitfalls to every age group. I have heard gripes about little kids, teens, young adults, and old people. We should all try to be decent, some people don't and that is a shame. Prejudice starts from things like this. One kid(or black person or woman or gay man or priest) does something offensive and suddenly it tars all such people with the same brush.

Shelly
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old April 19th, 2002, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: People who gripe about children

Shelly - whichever one it is who answered earlier about not having your daughter do "anything unnatural for her age". SO, you live on a cruise ship going to different countries each day, and feed her at the exact same, pre-set time each day. I am the mother of an 8 yo "little darling" and took him on DCL when he was 5. TOO EARLY. I'm with Kuki - kids need to be a little older before experiencing cruising. He was just overwhelmed. The only place he wasn't was the kids' area - and we didn't take him with us to leave him in daycare. We took him again a couple months ago on a week with Princess and he LOVED IT. Now, he is ready. Small children should be taken on land based vacations. You indicated you are on RCCL - set dining, set table. So, if she isn't hungry, or is past hungry, the other tablemates get to deal with it. You cannot control whether or not she is screaming or fussing - she is her own person. Yes, you probably will leave and take her back to the cabin- is that you or your traveling partner (you didn't mention if it was dad, and I don't want to assume), will she or you have eaten yet? Will she continue to be disruptive for you and others until she does eat? You may not realize it now, but your stress level will be HIGH dealing with it, especially if you do care how she behaves, as you have insisted. She IS only 3, and will behave like a 3 year old (and just because the cruise lines HAVE children's programs does not necessarily mean they WANT and encourage children - maybe they were developed because passengers insisted on bringing the children and the programs are the cruiselines way of getting the kids AWAY from the rest of the passengers?) Sorry, but my vote is to wait until the kids are a bit older.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old April 19th, 2002, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: People who gripe about children

You sure make a lot of assumptions about what my child would or wouldn't do. We follow a schedule at home which includes set times for dinner etc. Of course I am prepared to give her snacks if she gets hungry. My child hasn't been into "screaming" at the dinner table for over a year now. Sorry, but she is just not a screamer. At this age she has enough language skills to tell me if she is bored or upset or not hungry. If we did have a rough day and didn't feel she could handle the dining room then we have many other options available and would use them. I have never enjoyed cooking so we eat out about 3-4 times per week and my daughter knows how to act in a public place. We have made sure that there are a tons of activities on board that she will enjoy. Also have chosen shore excursions that will be kid friendly. One of her favorite activities is swimming and wouldn't you know it but our ship has two pools! My tablemates will not need to "deal" with anything concerning my daughter because as her parents we will take care of any situation that arises. I think all children are different and mature at different rates. I have made the decision that she is old enough to enjoy a cruise. Of course, when you take a child anywhere, you will be limited in some areas in what you can do and must understand your childs limitations. I don't mind doing that because I'm a parent and that's my job. I'm a stay at home mom and I'm well aware of my stress limits with children but thanks for telling me how I will feel. I have read some posts from other parents of young children who have a great cruise experience. If the cruise line doesn't want kids they sure have gone out of their way to come with some very cool activities for them and strict hiring standards for the people who run them. However, if my daughter is not comfortable with the youth program, she never has to go. I will leave it up to her discretion if she wants to participate. I'm not looking at it as a "daycare" I'm looking at it as a way for her to have fun with other kids her age if she chooses.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old April 19th, 2002, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: People who gripe about children

please define: "a bit older."

and how does one know when one's child actually IS "a bit older?" he might be "a bit older" and still not ready to cruise, according to other passengers.

or he might be "a bit younger" and REALLY be an angel, according to everybody he comes in contact with on a cruise ship.

who decides when a child is acting the right way to be able to come along on a cruise? shouldn't those same people put the SAME restrictions on adults who:

a) imbibe too much;
b) are boorish in their behavior;
c) don't care a lick about their fellow adult passengers;
d) hog all the deck/pool chairs (or at least some of them):
e) etc!

WHO decides when THOSE people are allowed to cruise?

at least when a child gets out of hand, a GOOD parent can do something about the situation -- remove the offending child. i can't say the same thing exists when an adult gets out of hand.

tim
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