Okay, I am not talking about people who would gripe about ill-mannered children because that is a very understandable gripe. I don't like abnoxious kids anymore than the next guy. HOWEVER, I have read quite a few messages on this board from people who make it clear they don't like ANY young children on a cruise or that they just don't like children period. Some of the messages are quite ugly! I am PROUD to say that we will be taking our well-behaved 3yr old on a 7 day cruise this Sept. No, I will not allow her to scream during your dinner. No, I will not allow her to splash water in your face at the pool. Yes, 3 yr olds will remember a nice vacation, mine often talks about fun things we did months ago. No, I do not plan to "dump" her in the children's facilities all day. Yes, I'm one of those moms who can't stand to be away from my daughter for more than a weekend. Yes, we are going to have a blast with our 3yr old on the cruise. Yes, I do think my daughter is adorable but if you don't that's your issue. I think it's horrible that anyone would even insinuate that we don't have as much a right to a nice family vacation as they do a nice adult vacation. If it bothers you that much than why would you book a cruise on a ship that offers children's programs?? I personally think anyone who just can't stand to be around ANY children is a sad individual. Children are a gift from god. My daughter is still innocent enough to think that all people are loving and I'm not going burst her bubble just yet. We feel lucky that we are able to take her to do fun and interesting new things. Some people on the board have determined that people who bring their young children on cruises are people who work too much and then feel guilty about leaving them but once they are on the cruise "dump" their kids on the youth program all day. I am just the opposite, I am a stay at home mom who really loves being around kids and couldn't think of any better way to spend a vacation. I would venture to say most parents who bring their young kids on a cruise feel the same way I do and have no intentions of ruining any part of your vacation.
As I have said before -- and will probably say again -- it only takes a few badly behaved children and their associated parents to leave a bad taste in people's mouths which, in turn, creates an attitude problem.
The kids' programs are usually great and kids tend to love them. It also gives mom and dad a break which is not a bad thing.
I like children. I'd better, I have four of them. But they are all long past three
W-A-Y long past three ...
You sound like a responsible mom and someone who has concerns for other people. Not everyone is like you and that's where the bum rap comes in.
I have some very pleasant memories of sweet young families with sweet young kids ... but the ones I remember more clearly are the Holy Terrors.
If your child starts to fuss-out in the grocery store, I assume you stop what you are doing and remove the child. If your child were to start to fuss-out in the dining room, I'd expect you would do the same thing. As I would expect any responsible parents to do.
Not everyone does that. Sad news, people probably won't remember YOU and your sweet baby girl. They will remember the monsters.
It is sad to see responsible parents tarred by the same brush as the ones who think it's cute (this really happened) to see little curly-locks wandering around on the pool deck putting cigarette butts into people's drinks. Mom and Dad were on about their gazillionth beer by that point, which might have contributed.
I would be delighted, at any time, to cruise with you and I might even take over wanna-be Grandma duties for a while.
Now, you all know I HAVE to answer this post <G>. Lets begin.......
<"HOWEVER, I have read quite a few messages on this board from people who make it clear they don't like ANY young children on a cruise or that they just don't like children period. Some of the messages are quite ugly!">
I have not seen any posts that indicated that people who don't like to be around small babies and todlers on cruise dislike kids (most have kids or their own). They simply don't want to be around them during their vacation. Just because a message disagree's does not make it "ugly".
<"I am PROUD to say that we will be taking our well-behaved 3yr old on a 7 day cruise this Sept. No, I will not allow her to scream during your dinner. No, I will not allow her to splash water in your face at the pool.>"
You will not ALLOW her??? lol. Our kids were once 3 yrs old <G>
<"Yes, I do think my daughter is adorable but if you don't that's your issue>"
All parents think their 3 yr olds are adorable. We did too.
<" I personally think anyone who just can't stand to be around ANY children is a sad individual. Children are a gift from god.>"
Now thats an UGLY statement . It has nothing to do with can't stand to be around ANY children.....I just don't like them running all over the ship on our vacation, etc...
"Gift from God"? Just having the ability to have kids does not make them "good parents"
<"My daughter is still innocent enough to think that all people are loving and I'm not going burst her bubble just yet.">
May I make a suggestion here.......At 3 years old, I think it would be wise to "burst her bubble" and let her know that there are "bad" people in this world...ie,, don't talk to strangers without your being present....Don't leave Mom and Dads side while in public..etc
Shelly, It's okay for us to have different opinions about BABIES/TODLERS on cruise. Both of us can be considered to be right or wrong in our opinions depending on who we are talking to Hopefully we won't be on the same ship Have a great cruise.
Definitely, burst her bubble now. And I also don't think it's ok for children to talk to strangers even when their parents are present. Kids should learn as early as possible that there are bad people in the world. There's one in every neighborhood and he/she could be your best friend.
Sorry, just another difference of opinion in how kids should be brought up - just like there's differences in opinions of whether or not it's appropriate for a kid to be on a cruise. Whatever happened to family vacations, like camping and amusement parks or going to the lake or beach? I'm not talking Disney World, I feel kids should be at least 8 years old to enjoy everything. Take them to parks that cater to little children. Oh well, maybe I was spoiled, I got to do all those family vacations - all kids deserve it.
But let's be clear about what's acceptable and was isn't. Let us remember that there is a difference between a person (youngster) and his/her behaviour. It's the poor behaviour that we should have an issue with, not the person.
Good parenting involves rearing reasonably well-behaved youngsters -- and taking responsibilty for their poor behaviour when it presents itself.
I love little kids, but don't always like everything they do. If they're well behaved, bring 'em on! If they're not so well-behaved then............
And I too am dismayed by the "Hopefully we won't be cruising together" comment.........
Gosh, did not mean to "dismay"anyone. We just don't want to cruise with 3 year olds. We don't want to sit down for a wonderful meal with a 3 year old. What's wrong with that? If we went to a really nice dining establishment at home, we would'nt do that....so why should we feel any differently on a ship? For that reason, we don't sail Disney. I am always "dismayed" when one can read an entire post and all they remember is one sentence <G>
Shelly you sound like a person who takes an interest in your child and I congratulate you for that. Most of the posts re/children are pertaining to the "parents" who exercise little or no control over their kids--who sit idly by the pool sipping their pretty drinks while Jr. and Missy are raising hell. I have repeatedly said that the Majority of people do supervise their kids but we all know there are many who do not. These are the ones most people are fed up with but can do little about. The cruise lines won't say anything as they are afraid they will offend someone.
Family vacations should be fun for all the family, kids included. No one has the right to ruin anothers vacation, whether they are a kid or an adult.But we all know that one doesn't have to be on a cruise to spot the "parents" who basically ignore their kids--you see it at the mall, the Walmart, anywhere you go. Unfortunately, it seems there are more and more of these "parents".
My kids are grown with kids of their own--but we all still meet once a year at the beach for a week. When the grandkids start getting out of line, there is someone nearby to get them back on track.
Go and enjoy!!
The problem is not the kids but the parents. Mine are now 23/27. but we took them on tneir first cruise at 14/10 and they had their own cabin. there were also rules/responsibilities just like home. And the kids cabin steward was forwarned and knew where to find us if he suspected a problem. We met for ALL meals. We discussed activities each day. We insisted on regular check-ins every couple hours. I have cruised over kid vacations (12/99) but from current posts will not do so now. Too many parents don't give two hoots or a hollar regarding anyone else these days and I ABSOLUTLY refuse to spend $1000/pp for a nightmare. the cruise lines are NOT parents and are NOT responsible for policing kids in hot tubs or discos or anywhere else (like elevators). They should enforce their rules but no one wants nasty letters in their personnel files when they do so from parents whose "little darlings" can do no wrong. Its a shame these parents are not preparing their kids for the real world like bosses and limits and responsibility. Maybe thats why mine are currently teachers (3rd grade and hi school at risk kids).
If I found major unruly kids on my cruise I would insist they introduce me to their parents and would definatly point out the saftey dangers of their kids activities. Safety may get a parental response, infringement of my rights/pleasures certainly will not.
For the reasons Rick mentioned (DOWN, BOY !!!) I would not sail Disney either.
Nobody is asking or requiring Rick (sorry, pal) to share a table with a 3 YO. Personally, I wouldn't tolerate it which is why we are table-for-two, late-seating people. Not just for the 3 YOs but for the jerk adults who are all too present.
Me, I would rather hold a sweet kid on my lap while mom and dad have a nice meal than watch people drooling over the bread basket, using bad English, and wondering just how many entrees they can pack down along with a six-pack they bring aboard and carp about if they can't. But, I don't pay my cruise money to do that and I choose to spend it carefully.
I agree completly with Marnie about awareness. On a recent cruise, I was working a story on what kids did in port on one particular day. I was zipping around with my voice recorder and would NOT approach a child for an interview without talking to the parents first to assure them that I was not some sort of pedophile.
The kids, with two noticeable excpetions, were sweet, polite, and thoughtful. Two kids saw me moving about and came up to me DEMANDING to be interviewed with Mom and Dad right behind them. THEIR children DESERVED to be interviewed.
I was roundly criticized about my comments relating to those particular children and my rather scorching post was, properly, taken down. It wasn't very nice.
Cruises ARE being marketed as family vacations and the concept is fast-growing. It doesn't fit with MY concept of what a cruise is about, but if folks want to share a cabin with a kid or two and take responsibilityf or the kids, that is THEIR choice. Responsibility if the key word.
I think there is plenty of room for all people of good will and good manners on cruise vacations. Read that sentence again.
After four children and who-can-count-how-many GodChildren, I know when kids are acting appropriately for a situation. Or not. A kid who acts out is, quite simply, removed from the venue if this pamda is involved.
It is unreasonable to expect that there will be no children on a cruise ship. It is, however, VERY reasonable to expect that parents will act like parents. And that's not just biology. It's politeness and responsibility to a larger community.
There are ships which don't allow children at all. They are expensive. If "no kids" is what people want, they shuld pay the difference. But there can be obnoxious "adults" on those cruises as well. At least the kids go to bed early.
Thanks to those who have voiced their support!
First off, let me repeat a message you wrote earlier on this board.
>. Parents with babies need to get a clue and seek
> a different form of vacation!
There were many other people who were ready to jump in and slam people who bring babies and toddlers aboard. You're right we can have a difference of opinion. I do resent the type of comments like the one above. I don't need to get a clue. Once again I ask, why go on a cruise that offers children's programs if you don't want to cruise with children??? I'm taking my daughter on Royal Caribbean because they have an extensive childrens program. I would not take her on a cruise if they didn't have a similiar program. And yes, that's right, my daughter is old enough to act civilized during dinner and has never splashed adults at the pool. But then we have taken her out quite a bit and she understands how to act. On the rare occassion she is having a hard time we will calm her down or remove her immediately. I'm going to ignore your "Hopefully we won't cruise together" comment.
<"Whatever happened to family vacations, like camping and amusement parks or going to the lake or beach?">
A cruise is a family vacation for us and obviously the cruise lines think so too or they would not provide activities for children. I personally hate camping and I'm sure we will take our daughter to the beach during our cruise. What exactly do you think a 3yr old would have to do at a lake?? And yes, we will take her to Disney soon enough. Really beyond Disney I don't consider an amusement park a vacation. Have you seen all the cool things for kids to do on a cruise? I found a ton of fun stuff on the boat and on shore that she will love to do.
My husband and I have always enjoyed nice vacations, nice restaurants, etc since way before we had a child so why would that change now. Sure we make more trips to McDonalds and Chuck E Cheese these days but then we also like to show her other things as well. I think it's the kids who haven't had much exposure to different situations that tend to not know how to act. I just took offense because I was enjoying reading this board in preparation for our cruise and then I saw several posts slamming parents with children. A cruise to me seems to be a place where a lot of DIFFERENT people come together to enjoy a vacation and I personally look forward to meeting a lot of new people with and without children. We still keep in touch with people we have met thru various other vacations.
PS Children are the coolest little people I know. Better than the belching drunk guy or the fat guy in a speedo that you see on every vacation.
I took my first cruise in 1982 on the Southward as a single. When I went into the dining room the first night I was at a table for 6 with another woman traveling alone and a family of four. I was a little disappointed at first but those were the two best behaved kids and there wasn't much in the way of kids activities back then. They were 3 and 7 and really great to be around and I had a good time. I've had worse table situations since then of the adult variety, where I've actually had to move in order to enjoy the dining experience.
Being single, I generally try to avoid the time of year where there are alot of families but not because I don't want to cruise with them, I just don't want to be overwhelmed. I'm big on live and let live but also on politeness, too much so my friends say, but please, thank you, excuse me, and have a nice day are a major part of my vocabulary and I tend to expect the same from others. Why prejudge people that just because someone says they cruise with their kids, it is a bad thing and the kids will act up???
In all my cruises, I've run into way more obnoxius adults that I couldn't stand to be around than I have misbehaved young children. Ships are big and I say there is room enough for everyone. Maybe the people who say familes shouldn't cruise and kids shouldn't be allowed need to look elsewhere, like a land-based adults only resort.
This is like discussing religion and politics <G> I just wish parents, with small kids, would be less defensive........he or she is your "little darlings"..not mine. Please don't try to force me to accept your little ones or invite them into my space. There is no doubt in my mind that if the major cruise lines offered adult only cruises.....they would stay full. When we are on cruise, do I let crying babies.......running todlers and impolite pre-teens ruin my cruise? Absolutely not. I realize that unruly kids are a reflection of their parents. I realize we live in a society where permissive parents are becoming a majority . I am always amazed when I read posts here from very defensive parents who always say their kids are so well behaved........makes me wonder why I see so many posts about unruly kids and complacent parents<G>. Want to take babies and todlers on cruise, then of course you can. Want me to "see the light" and agree with that......forget it .
"PS Children are the coolest little people I know. Better than the belching drunk guy or the fat guy in a speedo that you see on every vacation."
Kids are great.
That belching fat and drunk guy was once a kid...........hummmmmmmm did his parents fail him? Shelly, I really do hope you have great cruises........we just have different opinions on babies/todlers on cruise. Thats okay.
Shelly, you are on the right track--enjoy your kids while you can.
I may be wrong in saying this but I can't help myself--so Rick, forgive me if you are not the "Rick" I am thinking of---but I think a few weeks ago you had posted something about having two gay men at your dinner table who shared kisses during dinner and you were not bothered about it--as a matter of fact, according to you, you did tell or was about to tell some "redneck" ( who was staring) off over the matter.
But you wouldn't want to share your "space" with a innocent 3 yr. old?
Come on now.
Way to go Shelly! I choose not to have kids, but love them to death. Kids will do what their parent's let them get away with. I have 7 nephews (no nieces) and will take 4 of them (2,2,11,13) anywhere I go. They are well behaved and listen to me or ANY other adult when we tell them to do or not to do(which is rare) something. They respect us and our judgement and act appropriately depending upon where they are. ON THE OTHER HAND, the other three from my other brother can just stay home with him. I refuse to take them anywhere because they are the most spoiled, rowdy kids ever. They won't listen to their parents, why would they listen to anyone else. I am a firm believer that kids are a product of their society and if the parents have no control, no one else will either. I do not blame the kids, kids will be kids, but I do try to explain why what they (my nephews) are doing is bothersome to others and why it shouldn't be done. I know that every cruise I go on will have some children, but that is not enough to make me not go.
To Rick: Just wanted to let you know that your post make it sound like your kids were perfect angels growing up, that they never did anything anywhere that upset other people, or did you never take them anywhere. You kept refering to your kids being 3 once, but you seem to have no patience for others who have 3 yr olds. Seems to me if this was a been there, done that situation that it would not be that big a deal for you.
>>Me, I would rather hold a sweet kid on my lap while mom and dad have a nice meal than watch people drooling over the bread basket, using bad English, and wondering just how many entrees they can pack down along with a six-pack they bring aboard and carp about if they can't. <<
ROFL!! I was just on that cruise!! <g> The adults exhibiting that exact behavior were the ones who's kids were dumping my drinks and throwing cups of water at me around the pool deck.
I'm sorry guys... I love kids also, but my 3 (ages 20, 18 and 15 rounding up to the nearing birthdays) would have bugged the "you know what out of me" on *my* vacation.
Call me selfish... so be it. There are times when we want to spend time alone. I was run down by one too many strollers and shoved rudely by one too many pre-teen. The toddler and young boys in the public ladies room were adorable, sure.... but come on.
Yes, *I* chose that cruise!! It was my choice! I read on another board that the ratio of 15 year olds to adults was disproportionate! I had no idea ahead of time. I now know that I prefer to cruise without small children in strollers around. I prefer to cruise without the overwhelming scent of teen perfume (hormones? lol) and foul language, underage drinking, partying, drama etc... I can get my fix of that at home hanging with my own brood- and I can discipline my own!!
I am looking into my next cruise for October. It won't be on Carnival. I'm sure my experience was more a matter of timing than anything else but I learned what I prefer, and that is a cruise experience without lots of children!! I may have a bad taste in my mouth regarding CCL for the wrong reasons, who knows. I loved the experience and learned what I want and don't want in a cruise.
I personally can't see dragging a toddler around on those scorching hot water taxis on port days while they fuss and cry (man, I would be crying too) from the discomfort, forcing them into a routine and behavior that isn't natural for that age. Kids will act like kids! I felt sorry for the parents trying to comfort and quiet their small kids, push them around in strollers, change their diapers and find appropriate meals for them. It didn't seem like much of a vacation to me, but- to each his own.
I believe that parents should choose vacations which are age appropriate. For example, I didn't take my kids to Disneyland until I believed they were old enough to enjoy the experience completely, and IMHO that wasn't until they were 6 or 7.
In my view, just because someone is marketing towards a certain audience doesn't necessarily mean it's the correct decision to listen to the promo. For example, a few years back, when business wasn't so great, Las Vegas was gearing alot of advertising to promote Vegas as a family destination. I can't think of a worse place to take kids. And in fact most Las Vegas hotels realized the error of their ways, and have gone back to promoting it as an adult playground.
With regard to cruising... I think cruises can be a wonderful family vacation, and my sons have been on 6 or 7. HOWEVER, I have to admit I don't see taking babes in arm or toddlers on a cruise. When they get to be 5 or 6, they seem to love the children's programs and the adventure of a cruise. Personally, I can't see what a 1 to 3 or 4 year old gets out of the experience.
Just my opinion, but at that age, a resort or lake beach property seemed to be more appropriate, so when they ours were young, that's what we did.
Pamda, your description gave me a hilarious mental picture. Like National Lampoons Cruise Vacation. That's pretty funny!
I do agree that I have seen many parents today who are too permissive. I don't enjoy obnoxious children either even though I am a mother. I think children need discipline. I think many parents today just don't want to put forth the extra time and/or energy it takes to teach their children right from wrong. It's easier to just let them run wild but that won't be my kid.
Rick, there are several cruise lines that don't offer any programs for children. I doubt you'd see many on that cruise. Do you have grandkids?? I'm not sure I want to know.
Deja, sorry your last cruise was such a bad experience. I would have been tempted to say something to the parents. I won't be dragging my kid around crying or forcing her to do anything unnatural for her age. Our cruise has age specific activities for her, a special menu just for kids, and of course swimming is one of her favorite things. Of course, you can always choose a cruise that doesn't offer any of these things next time.
Please don't get me wrong- I had a wonderful vacation!! I didn't let any of the things I "griped" about ruin one moment of my cruise. I'm already looking into booking my next! I am sure there will be kids on board every cruise I book from now to whenever...
I cruised over Easter weekend... I kind of knew what I would be up against. It was my first cruise and although I thought of changing I knew it was the last time this year the ship was doing that itinerary before being transitioned.
I have no right to judge anyone on the decisions they make regarding the vacation choices made for their families, etc...
I want to take my own kids (now big HS and college aged) on a cruise! I know they would have a blast.
I didn't say anything to the parents because I was sorely outnumbered and afraid I would have a big fat cigar shoved up my nose (lol).
What about this do some of you not understand. My kids were not angels at 3 and thats why we did vacations appropriate for a three year old. And you are right ..I have no patience for strangers 3 yr olds....I don't have to . You and others here make me sound like a child hater.lol....gezzzzzzzz I just want an ADULT experience when I cruise. How many here want a baby at their dining table? Now be honest .
Honestly, my 2 yr old nephews can be at my table anytime. And any other behaving kids - they can be hilarious. But again, won't always be the case and I refuse to plan my vacations around them.. It is ME controlling my vacation experience, not them!!!
Rick, if you can prove to me that you would never, ever encounter kids on your vacations, I will retract my statements.
Maybe you should just stay at home - these kids are the future and more power to them.
Well I'm sitting this one out. My two boys love the ships and they look so cute in their suits. They do love to talk to people in the dinning room. Most people we encounter love my sons (Mike 3 and Tom 5 ). Especially the crew. We don't take the boys into the adult only pools and never go in the casino and bars with them. We can always be found on the childrens deck. Some may say what kind of vacation is that. You never stop being a parent. You carry the responsibility every where you go. I can understand Ricks point. My wife and I have seen misbehaved children. Many I did not want playing with my boys. Especially the older kids that rough house around the little ones or use foul language. Any way it's seven days until we are on the Explorer of the Seas. Peace to all.
Yes Rick, it does make sense-- just wondering how you welcome as dinner guests someone who can't keep their hands and mouths off each other, but not want a 3 yr. old child at your dinner table, or apparently even close by. (in your space)
No, I won't reply or debate with you further. I think Shelly has found that most folks are not as uptight over the (horrors of horros) presence of a child on a cruise, especially one who very apparently has a parent with some sense.
May your cruises be many and the best ones yet to come.
Shelly, I would be proud to be on your cruise, 3 yr. old and all.