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  #1 (permalink)  
Old July 23rd, 2004, 01:05 PM
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Default Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Well this won't be a popular post but this is America and we are entitled to our opinion. I have read much in here about misbehavied kids and wonder what is considered misbahavied. When I was 20 unmarried and had no kids I was over at a co-workers house for a Christmas party she had a 3 year old and a six year old. I can say looking back they pretty much stayed in the back and played. I would hear this laughing and running bumping into walls and every once in awhile they would come out of their room for whatever reason. I said to one of the other people at the party "Can't she controll her kids?" The worker said to me "The are being good they are just acting like kids one day you will see." Now I believe my kids for the most part are good kids but yes have alot of energy. One time when they were 3 and 8 months we flew to take them to see the grandparents. My wife and 8 month old had the window, the three year old had the middle and I was on the next side on the aisle. The plane takes off and my 8 month old was crying his head off. All of a sudden this guy that was sitting on the aisle with my wife and son says "can't you do anything to shut that kid up I am trying to get some work done and I can think." The plane was full so he couldn't just go find another seat, he called on the airphone in flight to try to get them to switch it, nobody would switch seats, I would of but because he was being an a**hole when he asked me to switch I just kept my seat. He told the stewardess he was a gold memebr or something like that needless to say by this time my 3 year old was at it and just to piss this guy off for yelling at my wife I was laughing at him misery. So hopefully on my second cruise when I take the kids they won't be the subject in here of a post but I am sure someone will wish they weren't there because I will allow them to have the time of thier lives. Since the cruiselines are in business to make money don't let children, smokeing or alcohol ruin your vacation because it won't affect the others.
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Misbehaving kids are those who are an imposition on others.

You know, pressing all the buttons on an elevator right before they leave it. Running up and down the hall late at night knocking on every door. That sort of thing.

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Old July 23rd, 2004, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

I know a few thing my kids might do that isn't one of them, or grabbing food off the buffet with thier bare hands, splashing water on others, they might run up and down the halls but wouldn't knock on all the doors.
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Don I can relate to that story. I travel alot and recently I had to fly from Baltimore to San Diego. While sitting in the waiting area at BWI AIrport there was a couple with a small child. The child was screaming uncontrollably. And would not stop. I overheard someone say that the mother said that the baby had colic.

Well, needless to say I heard noises come from that baby that I had never heard come from a human. And we had to listen to it for 5 hours. I felt sorry for the child and the parents. But by the time that we had landed in San Diego, my last nerve had been plucked. When I say that we had to listen to that child for 5 hours I am not exaggerating. Towards the end even the Flight Attendants were showing signs of frustration.

I realize that there is nothing that the parents could do.....but I am sure that there are many, many stories told around the water cooler about that flight.
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Donald, good Scottish name, nice one.

I dont think or feel that every 'gripe' regarding children of whatever age is a 'blanket covering gripe' regarding all children either on a flight or on a cruise.

Cruising or flying is not an alien environment that automatically determines how people, both adult and child will react as I as person expect.

Let me give you a scenario...At home some parents do not give a s**t when it comes to installing family and social values, so the kids do what they want and look after number one themselves, sudddenly they are on a ship on vacation with no guiding parental hand to care or lead them, what can we expect?

Gripes against children are in reality, gripes against the parent for not accepting what their children could be doing outwith their control, and not caring about the problems their offspring could be causing to others.

So what are we dealing with,,,,,,,, some as*h*le parents are having their vacation and nothing is going to stop it, even though the rest of us may have to put up with their kids.

And I agree dont put all children into this bracket
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Here are some examples of what I considered uncontrolled behavior. However, I see this happening everywhere and not just on the ships. Maybe it is "acceptable" child behavior, and I'm the one with a problem for becoming annoyed.

Children allowed to run around, yelling at each other in the main dining room during the late (or early) dinner seating. The servers had to avoid them while carrying trays, in come cases with hot dishes. If the server had tripped over a child and spilled hot soup on that child, I'm sure the parents would have pitched a fit about the server not paying attention to their angel. If you child cannot sit though dinner, think about eating in your room, an alternate dining room, or bringing along a quiet toy or game the child can play with.

Children jumping into the hot tubs and splashing the adult patrons who were trying to relax. The hot tubs are not kiddie pools.

Children allowed to run up the stairs and slide down the bannister. The stairs are not meant to be a jungle gym for your child's entertainment.

Children allowed to jump up-and-down in their seat and talk LOUDLY during the performances in the theater. If your child is not enjoying the performance, perhaps it is time to try something else.

There are some perfectly well-mannered children on cruises. However, people notice the unruly ones more. In most cases, the parents are trying to take a vacation away from the kids but bringing the kids with them. These are probably the same parents who let their kids ride bicycles or scooters around the aisles in stores or think it's funny for the kids to have shopping cart races.

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Old July 23rd, 2004, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

I feel that my kids are well behaved but they are Kids. They are not perfect and (contrary to what my 16 yo thinks) they don't know everything. Sometimes they can get too loud and need a reminder. One thing that drives me crazy is when people are sitting at the edge of a pool and complan because they accidently get splashed by a child. HELLO! You are near the water. It's not even my kids because they are older now but I can't tolerate when people complain because they are near a pool and get wet.
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Hi all,

I'm not here to defend the kids, because I have 2 and they do "kid" stuff one time. What I'm interestd in is your opinions.

Do you really belive that children cause more problems than other age groups? I am interested because I see more threads I think on children than some of the other groups, and I wonder if that really reflects the amount of issues they cause or not.

What do you think?

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Old July 23rd, 2004, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

kyriecat said
Children allowed to run around, yelling at each other in the main dining room during the late (or early) dinner seating. The servers had to avoid them while carrying trays, in come cases with hot dishes. If the server had tripped over a child and spilled hot soup on that child, I'm sure the parents would have pitched a fit about the server not paying attention to their angel. If you child cannot sit though dinner, think about eating in your room, an alternate dining room, or bringing along a quiet toy or game the child can play with.
MY KIDS NOT GUILTY
Children jumping into the hot tubs and splashing the adult patrons who were trying to relax. The hot tubs are not kiddie pools.
MY KIDS NOT GUILTY
Children allowed to run up the stairs and slide down the bannister. The stairs are not meant to be a jungle gym for your child's entertainment.

MY KIDS GUILTY
Children allowed to jump up-and-down in their seat and talk LOUDLY during the performances in the theater. If your child is not enjoying the performance, perhaps it is time to try something else.
MY KIDS NOT GUILTY
Well there you have it I guess my kids are O.K.
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

I agree with sailgirl. Kids should be able to splash in the pool . If you don't like it move. This assumes they are not purposefully slpashing at you, but just " goofing around".

I have never seen horrid kids on a cruise, I've only been on four, but my opinion is that some cruisers are too picky.

I think one of the reasons we see more posts about " bad kids" then any other group is because most posters on this board are not children. I bet on the teen board they don't have a problem with each others behaviour!

I believe the worst group of cruisers are drunken groups of more than 5 or 6 who commendeer a section of the pool deck, save loungers for their friends, and talk LOUDLY and generally act like they own the ship!!! Can't stand them, and I've seen them!
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

L:ast spring I was in an elevator that got stuck because of the kids playing with the buttons. So that is my largest camplaint, it was scary and I now say to the kid when I get in an elevator on a ship,"Are you having a good time? Ever been stuck in an elevator? " then i go on to explain what happened to me, they always seem to hurry away from the elevator after that.
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Old July 23rd, 2004, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

There are good and bad everywhere and in everything. On our Glory cruise there was a little girl (late seating) who was asked by the assistant maitre'd, to get up and dance every night with her. She was really cute and very polite, and danced on a small stage at the top of the stairs. On the last night I said to my dh that I would like to compliment the parents on what a wonderful child they had. I asked our wait stafff if they knew where she was sitting and they pointed to the booth behind us. That shows just how good she was lol. To me the bad ones are the parents who just smile at their little "darlings" because everything they do is so goshed darn cute - argh!!! Well live and let live (I think!) TTFN Jennifer
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Old July 24th, 2004, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Jr.:

You need to start a thread called “Donald’s Kids” or something. You seem to reacting to comments made about some children behaving badly as if someone said: “Donald’s kids are Brats”.

I don’t think that anyone has named any child or parent in particular. We don’t hate kids, do we? (Don’t be a hating). We just dislike some of the things kids do that disrupt our vacation while their parent’s heads are up their a$$. Sometimes it’s only temporary or alcohol induced, but having ones head up ones a$$ can be a permanent situation.

Regardless of what anyone says, at least one parent comes forward to state that it cannot be true, because “my kids” are angels. One perfect child (or delusional Parent) does not change the opinion of the “Cruise Gripe” masses.

If your children are well behaved, then I doubt anyone here is referring to your children on this thread.

Children behaving badly and their parents are about as welcome on my vacation as thunderstorms, sunburns, fire ants, street peddlers and sharks.

Great kids and their families are always a plus. I’ve seen as many good parents and children as I’ve seen bad ones. For some bad parents seem to equal demon offspring.

Parents of my generation tried to emulate parenting from Ozzie and Harriet. Some of the current generation parents seem to be taking their parenting tips from Ozzie Osborne.
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Old July 24th, 2004, 01:45 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Amen, Zack!!!!

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Old July 24th, 2004, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Zack, I agree as well. And it appears that once again all of the parents on CM are perfect and their children are angels.

And, agree that for the most part it is the parents fault, and what's even more surprising is that the original poster admitted to taking a hotel's luggage cart in the evening and storing it in his room overnight so they would not have to wait for one in the morning!!! Don't worry about the folks checking in later that night or leaving before you in the AM. hmmmm, nice way of setting an example for your children....
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Old July 25th, 2004, 12:24 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

my 2 are far from perfect-but they are also not used to the formal dining as we will experince on our upcoming hal cruise. in order to prepare them we have taken the step to go out to lunch and dinner a few times over the past weeks to remind them of proper dinner behavior (c'mon now-we all tend to relax at home more than we do in a restaurant), we've also reminded them of/brought out the photos from our last cruise and reinforced that a cruise ship is just like a floating hotel-people may be sleeping at any time of the day or night so you need to walk quietly down a hallway. we're considered overprotective of our kids by many, but when walking in common areas each of them (10 and 7) are holding one of our hands, they also have never had an opportunity to jump into a hot tub, because they have been taught from an early age to ask our permission and have one of us join them if they are inclined to go in (we size up the situation and often ask those in the hot tub if they mind us joining). as far as splashing in the pools-i find it interesting that the most kid oriented cruise line (disney) prevents this problem by having 3 levels of pools:free for all-swim at your own risk with the water slide, family pool-geared more for those with little ones in water wings, and an adults only pool with adjacent adult only hot tub)-seems to me the other lines could take a hint.

i tend to feel sorry for the misbehaving kids-in my experience they've either been left with little or no supervision or they're parents flat don't give a damn about teaching them common social etiquate. just as a final note-check out the teen board, i have-it is interesting on how many posts call their peer's on behaviors that reflect poorly on the rest. additionaly, they have a very strong sentiment against "old people" (from what i can tell that's just about anyone over 30) who (1) when a recipient of a courtesy (a door held open, passing an item across a table, etc.) fail to use the term "thank you", and (2) lump them all, good and bad, into "those rotton kids".

we always try to focus on the behaviour not the individual.
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Old July 25th, 2004, 05:39 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

I thnk the question about whether kids are more annoying than other age groups misses the point very well-made during the previous thread: That it is dangerous to assert your own right to not be annoyed by children, due to how many of them are willing to lie about how a stranger sought to get them to behave.
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Old July 25th, 2004, 06:25 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

It can be dangerous to assert your right to not be annoyed with other age groups as well. I have had a few confrontations with drunks in public places that were far worse than anything an irate parent might say.

However any parent who belives that their child won't tell and out and out lie needs to go back to parenting school. I tedn to ask others around the situation what happened if I didn't see it to get to the "real" truth.

My kids are not angels, they can be good or bad depending on a ton of different factors I can't keep track of. if I could, I'd write a child raising manual. I do try and get them out of the public situation ASAP when things start to go south though, because its not their right to disturb others.

I have no isses with the gripes that people have about children. I'm just curious if they are on average worse than what others do. It's not to justify it, just a question.

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Old July 25th, 2004, 07:16 AM
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Default Re: Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Sorry, but I cannot agree. I believe the likelihood of incurring a life-altering incident as a result of encountering some drunks on a cruise ship is far far lower than that with respect to taking action with respect to unruly children. It is far easier to fend off a physical attack, and even easier to recover from one you couldn't fend off, than to either fend off or recover from a dual-pronged attack aimed at one's reputation and emotions.

Incidentally, you're right that the concern doesn't stem from what the parents will say, specifically. Rather, the danger comes from the legal realm. Officials are required to aggressively pursue accusations of child abuse regardless of how unreliable the accusation is. Just think about what you wrote: You put the parent in the position of "asking around" to determine the validity of the child's accusation, rather than giving the other adult's report more credibility. As a parent, judiciously defensive of your child, that's the right thing to do. Think harder: You'll see that that stacks the deck against any innocent adult so accused. It is hard for us to appreciate risks we have not had occasion to encounter yet ourselves. However, I'm sure if you try, and you put yourself in the position of an innocent person so accused, divorcing yourself from yourself as a parent, you'll see what I'm saying.
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Old July 25th, 2004, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Hi bicker,

I have to admit I hadn't considered the abuse angle. I was purely considering the argument in the realm of, "My child couldn't/wouldn't do this kind of thing" which is the same as confronting any group about their actions. That's why I think confronting drunks, etc is worse. Of course that doesn't take into account the "mother bear" reaction some parents have.

As far as why I ask around, I do that not because I am trying to give credence of one person over the other, it's just that I've witnessed adults lie about what exactly happened as well.

You are absolutely correct that the legal ramifications are scary. The worst part is the stigma even if you are cleared. One thing to note is that even parents aren't safe from these types of accusations.

So, just to make sure I understand the argument. It's not that children are particularly worse than the other groups in terms of gripes. The real problem is that there isn't a good way to resolve the complaint. Does that accurately reflect the position?

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Old July 25th, 2004, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Bingo.
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Old July 25th, 2004, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

It seems like everyone has a complaint about misbehaving children on cruises. I've been on 15 cruises over a 20 year period. I have noticed that there are a lot more children cruising, but I just don't see the bad behavior that everyone talks about. I've never seen the child that pushes all the buttons in the elevator, or the ones running down the hallways, making alot of noise. Whats wrong with me?...Am I blind and deaf? Or is it that what I see are children having fun? Or am I just enjoying the fact that I'm on a cruise that I don't let other people's children's behavior bother me?

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Old July 25th, 2004, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Laurie M,

It sounds to me like you are just wearing rose colored glasses. You wouldn't to have an extra pair would you? I got to get me some them before my next cruise.

Better yet why doesn't the cruise line provide them. Hey that would be a great PR and marketing tool.
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Old July 25th, 2004, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Zack, if you would do all your cruising during times when schools are in session like we do, you might not need the glasses . We also don't cruise over Christmas or during spring break.

Therefore, like Laurie, we can say that we have not been bothered by misbehaving children on our cruises. However, our cruises have been filled with nasty , rude seniors like ourselves. Oh, woe is me!
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Old July 25th, 2004, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

The first 10 years of cruising, we usually cruised during April or May. Since our daughters started cruising with us (about 10 years ago, when they were around 9 & 14) we cruise during the summer months. We have 3 more years til the youngest is out of college and then we can possibly cruise other times of the year.

I don't normally walk around with rose colored glasses because at home, I do get irritated with screaming kids running wildly in the supermarket, discount store or restaurants, etc.

I guess I save the rose colored glasses for my cruises....

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Old July 26th, 2004, 04:23 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

WOW-my husband and i have 29 years of social services employment between the 2 of us and the topic of allegations of child abuse never entered my mind when i read this thread. i would wonder how this would be handled given the non us registry of most cruise ships, and the majority of sailings in international waters (i've seen some news items on the difficulties of alleged rape and violent crime victims in attempting to prosecute)-but i definately understand the concern. it's a real hard call on what to do in these situations-that "mother bear" reaction can be very nasty. in fact, the school my kid's attend may be canceling future field trips requiring parental involvement based on this very issue (a recent trip had several nasty scenes wherein some parents lashed out at others for enforcing the school's safety standards with their kids). i guess for me the rule of thumb will be: if there's the potential for injury to someone i'm going to do something to stop it, if it's an issue of annoyance that's impacting the enjoyment of our vacation-while i may not say anything to the parent (or the kid in absence of the parent) i will be grabbing the first staff member i see to advise of inappropriate behavior on board (this can be effective-i witnessed a parent who had just been pulled out of a cocktail lounge being told that unless his young teen was checked in and participating in the youth's program he had "lost the privledge of being unaccoumpanied by an adult for the remaining duration of the cruise". when the father began to very loudly complain, the manager reminded him that there had been a previous conversation between the 2 of them wherein he had advised the parent of passanger complaints regarding his son's inappropriate behaviour. the father was also advised to review the section of his travel docs that detailed how passengers could be removed from the cruise based on "the safety and comfort of other passengers". that kid was glued to his father's side for the remainder of the trip (did'nt look like they much enjoyed each others company though).
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Old July 26th, 2004, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

I agree with Laurie M. As long as it's not MY kids misbehaving, I don't even notice.
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Old July 26th, 2004, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

A-men, "Bravemom"! While I've never been troubled by out-of-control children on the cruises I've taken, I've sure seen loads of complaints about them on this board-- but not much in the way of solutions, other than grumbling about the blindness of their parents. You've pointed the way, I think-- complain to high-ranking purser's office/hotel-management staff when appropriate, get them to enforce reasonable rules, and those "blind" parents will see reason in a hurry!
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Old July 26th, 2004, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Just be warned - I recently posted on another thread that we have a friend that got so tired of going to pursers desk to complain about out of control children....and each time being asked if she knew the names of the children or their cabin numbers. So, she said that she would take pictures of them with her digital camera and ask them their name(s) and cabin number(s).

When I originally posted this, some posters thought that she was being a creep for asking little children their name(s) and cabin numbers(s). But it was the only thing that got any action out of the pursers.
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Old July 26th, 2004, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers

Why are some people so hard on kid cruisers?

Because some kid cruisers are really hard on people!!
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