Incidentally, Windstar and Club Med are NOT casual in the evenings...standard, traditional cruise attire (suits and tuxes) are the norm for formal evenings, informal the other evenings.
Thank you for the information. My impression was that Club Med's ships were basically floating versions of their land resorts, with the same standards, and that Windstar was a caual product, but obviously that is not the case.
They can't find it, so they book on a mass market line and "bend" the rules.
I'm not so sure that showing up for dinner in jeans on formal night is "bending" the rules. Rather, I'd call such actions "breaking" the rules.
Does the mass market need to enforce their rules? Certainly! But, as soon as they do, they will find an unserved market that wants a mass market type cruise with a "shorts and jeans OK" dress code. Maybe only then will such sailings be offered, to separate those who love formality from those who hate it.
If cruise companies like Carnival Corporation (NYSE: CCL), which owns at least half a dozen cruise lines that offer such radically diverse cruise products as Carnival, Costa, HAL, Windstar, Seaborne, and Cunard, thought that they could make money with such a casual cruise product, you can be sure that they would offer it. Indeed, the fact that Carnival Corporation has not started such a line is a fairly strong indication probably indicates that
>> 1. They have not identified enough demand for such cruises to support a line that offers them because the overwhelming majority of passengers want a more traditional cruise product,
>> 2. They have concluded, either rightly or wrongly, that the people who would go on such cruises would not spend enough aboard ship (on tours, in the shops, in the casino, etc.) to make such an operation profitable at the discounted fares that would attract passengers to such a line, or
>> 3. For some other reason, it's not economically viable to launch such a cruise line.
Nobody is saying that one is banned to one's cabin. Rather, one is only saying that one must appear in proper attire to gain admission.
On my last couple cruises (all with Princess), the Princess Patter has carried a notice that "The prescribed evening attire applies throughout the ship for the entire evening." When I last checked, "thoughout the ship" included the buffet area ("Horizon Court") on the Lido Deck.
That said, in former times, Princess did have live entertainment and dancing in this area on the "Sun Princess" class of vessels. Unfortunately, it seems to have fallen casualty to the company's recent "cost reduction programme."
As always you are very thorough regarding the facts,and I for one, appreciate that very much...I really enjoyed your responses and I hope others learn from them as I have....
I just want to say again, that I am in complete agreement with you...you are, in my opinon, totally correct in your assessment...I hope that the cruiselines really do monitor these boards...I hope they will learn a great deal from this thread!!!
Kuki I agree with your original post. You said it very well. I am cruising on Carnival on my upcoming cruise because my 2 kids are going with us and was lookign for a fun relaxed family type atmosphere. We didnt want to have to get all gussied up every night. Carnival suits us.
As for all the comments about class and such..cruises have changed. There are different lines for different tastes. The Titatnic is gone.
On so many boards people argue the jean issue in dining rooms. My opinion is this. I don't wear jeans in the dining room if the guy at the next table does then it is his problem. AM I embarrassed for him? nope..he chose to wear it. Do I care if he wears jeans on formal night? I could care less. It doesn't affect me. Wil it ruin my dinenr??Not in the least.
Life is too short to be worrying what others are wearing..or doing ..worrying about me is a fulltime job. ;-)
Kuki I think the answer to your'e question is that the major cruiselines dont have the guts to flat out tell us a dress code. I believe they would prefer everyone dress up in tux or dark suits and cocktail dresses or gowns for the ladies but are afraid if they make it a hard rule that they will run off the 10 percent who will not conform. Cruislines are in fierce competition these days and while I think they have desires they do not have the guts to lay it all out.
It is only fabric we are talking about here! For crying out loud.... if the suggested or required dress for dinner on a cruise is a tux and evening gown, wear a darn tux and an evening gown!
A cruise is not the place to try to make a statement.
I would never wear an evening gown for an ocean swim, nor would I wear a pair of jeans in the ocean. The obvious attire for this situation is a swim suit. At a formal affair, the obvious attire is a tux.
That being said.... if YOU decided to wear your evening gown for an ocean swim.... I wouldn't give a $hit! Who cares. If you want to wear jeans to a formal dinner, whoop-de-doo. If you are tacky enough to do it, well then I have enough "class" to ignore it, and not waste my precious time agonizing over it. After all... we are on a cruise, have fun.
How about this one, money doesn't equal brains!!!! This came from Wall Street about 3 years ago, Buck
And neither does lack of money equal brains.<G>
Stereotyping is the problem. Assuming because some is "dressed to the nines" or bedecked in jewlery they are snobs or showoffs is just as wrong as assuming because some is dressed in "good will" that they are low lifes.
In my view class relates more to how people respect each other. Acting and dressing appropriately for a situation shows respect for the people around you.
Doing what you feel like doing because you can show's selfishness, disrespect, and lack of class--- regardless of how much is your wallet.
I love to dress up on cruises, because when I'm home, there are very few occasions I get a chance to dress up and that's one part of cruising I really enjoy. I know there are only a couple of formal nights, but if I bring the clothes I'm going to wear them. I've heard comments from "ladies" saying well it's not formal night why is she dressed like that, but not to my face, of course. I just ignore them because they just might be jealous of my clothes. I am not rich, but I love to cruise and I buy dresses just for cruises. I figure if they don't, even on formal night, they're the ones who look foolish. I just ignore people like that. What bothers me more than anything, is when people smoke in areas they're not suppose to. That bothers me more than anything, because I have asthma and get really sick around smoke. I've thought of going to Carnival Paradise because of this reason, but I really don't like Carnival cruises, so I just go and try to stay away from these people. The same people who don't show common sense on cruises are just that way and I don't suppose they use common sense at home either.
Cruise Your Own Cruise (CYOC)!!!
I borrowed (and modified) the above from hikers that hike cross-country on the Appalachian, Pacific Crest and Continental Divide Trails. When confronted with "attitudes" about how they choose to hike the trail (small backpack vs. large backpack, deviating from the official trail, etc), they respond with "Hike Your Own Hike". In other words, you hike the way you feel is best for you and I'll hike the way I feel is best for me. It's all good!!
This should apply to cruises, Cruise Your Own Cruise. Why should you let the way someone dresses (or doesn't dress) affect you. Everyone has paid their own good, hard-earned money to be on the cruise. It really seems so superficial to get caught up in how people are dressed or to worry yourself to death about what to wear. This is supposed to be a vacation. Great for the people who want to be dressed to the "nines" and great for the people who would rather wear jeans. Great for everyone!!
As for the Cruise Lines enforcing a dress code. I really don't feel it's their position. We're not children (most of us anyway). They can provide the guidelines and we can make our own decisions. I don't understand why these decisions affect some people so much. Since this issue seems to affect those who want everyone to be dressed up so much, I will say, what if the cruise lines decided to have one night as a "jeans and dirty t-shirt night". Would you want that enforced, or would you still want the option to wear you suits and dresses?? You should be able to make your own decision...Right??
Just remember this, as recently as the early twentieth century, women wore corsets, boustiers, girdles, and dresses made of sturdy (heavy) upholstered fabric with all kinds of padding in the hips, buttocks, bosom. A woman's dress and undergarments could weigh 10 pounds or more. Men wore hats, stiff (and I mean stiff as a board) tubular collars, and thick (heavy) coats. Dressing (especially for women) usually required assistance. I've seen all this talk about the "good old days" of crusing when people knew how to dress. To them I would say, would you still want to be dressing the way they did back then?? Dress (and attitudes) change with time.
Don't let the fact that people choose to dress differently, and have the freedom to do so, affect your cruise.
Remember....Cruise Your Own Cruise (CYOC)!!
Well I am new to the whole cruising thing, but I have read a lot on it....There's a saying, "when in Rome, do like the Roman"...When people think of cruise ship or @ least when I think of one and I am only 20, I think of relaxing and dressing the part...I do like casual wear, but I also know that's it's appropriate for daytime..the one thing I like about cruising is the aspect "of living the highlife for a week"..here u get a vacation where u can get away from it all...so if evening wear is suggested for dresses and no "shorts"..go with it...I actually look forward to wearing nice cocktail dresses and dresspants for dinner....I am not about to go and buy a long gown, but a nice evening wear is appropriate...Look @ it this way, if you are going to a 4 star restaurant, would u be caught dead in jeans and a t-shirt?...even young people know this rule...unless ur going to McDonald's or TGIF type of restaurant...u should be wearing @ least a nice shirt and dress pants....It's only social etiquette that people tend to ignore now a days...ANOTHER indicator that I found to be helpful is look @ the waiters and ur surrounding...If they are in some type of dressup such as dress pants and shirt, then u should be in something like that as well...If they are in casual..then u can be causal.....Only my opinion...
I'd like to take this issue to a new argument. lol
What about on the quoted "Casual" night when your dinner companions are dressed semi-formal or formal. This is usually attributable to a special occassion; however, I sailed Carnival (known for its laid back style) and our dinner companions dressed up each night. Should I have felt bad?? Should they?? Does what someone else wears affect any part of my meal?? Does the food taste different?? PLEASE! There are bigger things to worry about! I always say "it takes alot to make me ***** on any cruise" (but I have had some problems)
The hubby and I agree to the cruise experience WE want before we go. Sometimes we do it up...Sometimes we just need to get away and relax. I went one cruise with absolutely no make-up. My friends would be shocked but these people don't know the difference, who cares? The hubby has seen me in the morning for over 20 years...nothing could shock him.
If we decide to go TOTALLY casual for the week ( we would never wear shorts to the dining room but we have worn jeans); we tell our dinner companions on the first night....If its a big deal, we ask to be reseated. That would be the proper ettiquette, dont you think.
Heck, as long as the other people seated at my table are wearing any kind of clothes, I could care less. Now, if they don't bathe or use deodorant, It might bother me a bit. I am not the boss of them and they are not the boss of me. Live and let live and enjoy every day!
I would be the last person to EVER fail to dress for dinner and the evening against the dress code or "suggsted dress", as I don't want to look like a fool! But dress codes, and my opinions about them, are a factor in my choice of cruises -- keeping in mind that I will obey them if I chose a particular cruise.
On this topic, I think it is significant that these are not the best of times for cruise lines. My favorite, Radisson, has repositioned one of its ships from Europe and the Med. to the Caribbean for the spring/summer, and as a "drawing card" has designated dinner dress as all casual -- plus has gone all inclusive (open bar) 24/7. This has been part of an effort to fill the ships, along with heavy discounting. I believe that this is a recognition of what much of the the cruising public really wants; casual dress and open bars. I'll confess: I booked one of them!
Again, none of this is an excuse for anyone to violate any ship's dress code. I merely mention this to show that cruise lines ACTUALLY KNOW what the majority of guests want, and give it to them when economic necessity dictates. Is this the start of a trend? I hope the heck it is!
I just feel its proper to follow the rules set forth in any situation you put yourself in. Its my decision to go on a cruise that allows dog and pony shows as well as the super formal. I'll continue to cruise and have a super time no matter what the style. BE FLEXIBLE,,,, thats my (and the side show contortionists) motto..Happy kruzin'
Tweety, I'm with you--questioning exactly what happened on that Mercury cruise. What did the people change into after the formal night dinner? We always change into more comfortable clothes--slacks and golf shirt for hubby ; nice slacks and top/blouse for me. What we would consider "church clothes", not formal, but not slobby either. Good point was made about those who didn't dress formally for dinner because they ate at the buffet. What's the real story? I'd like to know before our Summit cruise this summer.
It's not so much a lack of "class" as it is the culmination of the "me first" mentality that seems to pervade all of society these days. Everyone has the "right" to do as they damn well please, and nobody else has the "right" to "force" their views on ME. Trouble is, while that person doesn't want someone else to "force" their views on them, their disregard for those views in effect forces their views on ME. . Somehow people don't ever see that their actions impact someone else...just as long as I'm happy, then everybody else should be happy too.
It's not just limited to cruising...look at the number of folks who want to be able to fly from New York to LA for a hundred bucks and then demand a dinner, a movie, and if at all possible an upgrade to first class.
IMHO, many with this "me first" attitude can be sent all the literature from the cruise lines in the world about what is "expected" and which describes the "cruise experience". Still, that literature will tend to get tossed because, by golly, I'm paying enough money to take this trip I'm not about to have anyone else tell ME how to dress or behave. And how many folks will get on a cruise ship with nothing but shorts and t-shirts in their luggage, then resent being informed that gentlemen are requested to wear jackets and shorts are prohibited in the dining room. Why, that's a violation of their right to express themselves - nevermind that they are in international waters on board a ship that is most likely not registered in the United States where those "rights" may or may not exist
I think if you know it's formal night you have the "right" to dress as you wish, that's all well and good. But you are being a bit disrespectful. The cruise lines have set up these nights and so you've disrespected them but coming in the dining room in your jeans when they asked that you dress formal. You've disrespected the other passengers who have dress accordingly by taking something away from their "specail occasion night". I don't fault anyone who wants to do as they please since they paid good money for the trip and they want to do what they feel like. But it does, in a small way, affect others on the cruise. What would you think if I had the attitude that since I paid good money for this trip and I can do as I please and I sat down in a non smoking area and lit up my "smoke "??Hey, I paid my money for this trip and I'll do as I please. Or what if I decided I wanted to have a loud party in my cabin at 3 AM and you are trying to sleep next door? I paid good money for this trip and I can do as I please.
Like I said, dress the way you want. It doesn't spoil the meal for me. But don't be angry if others look at you "unpleasantly" because they too have paid their good money for this trip and they can do what they want too!
Make your dream cruise come true!!
As I read this thread, it reminds me very much of my experience in the Hamptons in New York. It used to be a nice place to relax and enjoy the beach for the weekend. Over time, more and more rude elements "discovered it" and started to come out. Each year people would move further East to put some distance between themselves and the new, boorish crowd. It has become one of the most obnoxious places on earth and people are now going to the berkshires and points north instead.
A similar element seems to have "discovered" cruising. Unfortunately, there seem to be an increasing number of people (with & without $$$) being raised without any notion of the concept of respect or consideration for others. They live in there own world and don't care about what other people think. I consider myself to be perhaps overly considerate of others and I often think about how nice it must be for them to be able to live that way. Growing up with a "do unto others" philosophy seems to be a rarity now. I am starting to sound more like my father every day....
Well I have to get in on this one too. I will be going on my 30th cruise this Sunday on Celebrity Millie.
As I envision being on the ship, I see ladies and gentlemen dressed to the nines. I envision walking down the beautiful staircase to the dining room. The sound of violins,beautiful service and food. After dinner a stroll on the deck, the stars, the sea. This "dressing up", is part of the fun for me, and for most people I think. For a moment in time we are in a fantasy world.
We ladies have a chance to show our husbands how pretty we can look. We have TIME to fuss with our hair and our makeup. We love sliding into that formal gown and turning a few heads if we can. Maybe it's a woman thing. Perhaps just a hopeless romantic talking. BUT----- If I wear jeans and tee, I may as well stay home and work in the yard, grab a burger at Mickey D's, let the dogs out and go to bed!
I really don't care what others wear, but those improperly dressed just don't fit in my picture, and I wonder why they are on this type of cruise.