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  #61 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

Ok.
On my next cruise formal night I'll go in to dinner wearing torn, faded ultra low rise jeans with a short pink tank top with the name of a drink called 'The Dog's B******' (which is the name of a drink ...truth) on it and i'll have scruffy hair uncombed together with three days beard growth - a pair of flip flops and just for good measure I'll put on a temporary tatoo on my forehead saying 'F***'.

I'll sit down at the table where there will be maybe 8 other guests. Am I showing them respect? Nope.

But - that'll just be the way I'm LOOKING..... and according to others posting here, nobody should be judged by their appearance. I think I will be helping people to form an opinion before I even open my mouth. First impressions don't count? Of course they do.

Pete
Ps. Of course I won't be doing it........ just making a point here.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

Pinecone, I am 19, and LOVE the opportunity to get dressed up and all decked out. Not all younger people are more casual. =)
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: Re: Not following dress code

There are a lot of things in addition to clothing that could impact in a first impression: too short, too tall, too fat, too thin, to gay, too straight, too black, too white, too brown, too green, too hairy, too scary, too disabled, too feminine, too masculine, too many piercings, too many tatoos etc. Do those of you who judge people in terms of clothing also judge people by physical characteristics. I sure hope not! Verily, judge not another persons scalp less ye be also judged.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

Sheila...I am sorry. I mis-read. Please accept my apology.

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  #65 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: Re: Not following dress code

"Here on the West Coast it is very common to see people in very nice jean or very nice Bermuda shorts in your nicer restaurants in San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco. No one bats an eye"....................pinecone.

While that may be true, I have to ask the question. Do the restaurants have posted outside their entrances that formal attire is suggested (or expected, or required)?

I believe that is the debate here. Do people follow the suggested rules or do they disregard the rules to satisfy themselves?


Regards,
Thomas

Post Edited (08-26-03 11:02)
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 12:23 PM
char Hempler
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Default Re: Not following dress code

I could care less if anyone wants to dress like they don't have any idea where they are. But, There are rules. Why is it only some people have to obey rules and some don't. Who says who can break the rules? It doesnt ruin my cruise because there are people out there that do just as they please. But it does make me feel so superior to them because I can read and Follow rules! I love to wear Jeans.. But at home or shopping or at a picnic.... Not on a cruise!!!! Just as i wouldnt wear a tux or formal to do the laundry or go shopping in. Just Not Right!!!!!!!!!
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

No Problem Rick, apology accepted. And Char great post!!!! I to could careless if they want to not dress up for formals. I just don't understand why someone would submit themselves to be stared at and made fun of as of what happened a couple of days ago on my cruise. People where out loud in front of this couple's face making comments. And I do understand Rick's point about some people's luggage being lost. But in most cases I do believe Cruise lines would let them go to the formal shop and pick something out at no expense to them especially if the cruise line lost the luggage in the first place. If I am wrong about this then please correct me but I am almost positive they would do it.

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  #68 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 01:58 PM
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So many petty people, I can't believe it! You CANNOT control the actions of others - only yourself. Yes, it would really improve my life if people didn't steal, rob, or do drugs, but I can't control that. I can control the fact that I will NOT let them interfere with my enjoyment of my life. Same thing goes for dressing up on a cruise. If you want to dress up, by all means, go ahead! I will dress up on my cruise, but not in a ball gown - in a nice dress or skirt and top. But if you think I'm going to let the fact that the man next to me is in shorts or khaki's ruin my trip, then you're crazy. I really couldn't care what you wear - I care about the quality of people around me. If you're loud, obnoxious and a jerk (but you're dressed in a stunning outfit), I will still think you're a loud, obnoxious jerk. But if you're a decent person (dressed casually), I will recognize that you're a decent person, and treat you with respect. Get a grip! You can't control how others dress (or how they act for that matter) - just concentrate on your life and your actions and leave others to control their own!
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 05:09 PM
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Default Re: Re: Not following dress code

I don't feel superior to anyone, whether they can read the suggestions (not rules) or not.
Of course, I don't feel inferior to anyone either. I just believe in enjoying myself and not concerning myself with how others look.
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

What rules? I think we have concurred that suggested guidelines are not rules.
And the above post that used an example of a dirty unwashed person was not the point. We all agree that a person should have at least basic hygiene. We don't all agree on suitable clothes, that's for sure! Oh well!
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old August 26th, 2003, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

The below is Carnival's policy, however most other lines are the same or similar. Note that the only suggested dress is for formal nights. The rest of of the nights is it not suggested it is required.

What should I pack?
Casual attire is the order of the day, both on board and ashore. For one or two nights, a dark suit or formal attire is suggested. The dress code for other evenings ranges from sport coat and tie to casual resort wear. For Alaska and Canada cruises, sweaters, lightweight jackets and raincoats are suggested.

Note: Shorts and T-shirts are not permitted in the dining room area during dinner.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old August 27th, 2003, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

I have posted many times on this subject on different topics and here I go again...in reading these posts my 1st thought is that I don't believe we who do follow the "suggested" guidelines ridicule those who don't. We don't let it "ruin" our vacation. We don't pine over this the whole time about those rules breakers. However, we do notice those that can't follow the rules, suggested or required. Sure there are those circumstances, such as lost luggage but I know at least Carnival will give shipboard credit and those folks can rent tuxes including the women (they have women's tuxes). I'm not crazy about dressing up either but we dress appropriately not only for formal nights but the other nights too. It just makes for a nicer atmosphere. If you don't want to dress up then go to the buffet. We won't lose our sleep fretting about those who don't. BTW there are alot of older folks who cruise Carnival and as far as those who don't dress up, it's pretty equal between the older and younger group so you can't really generalize that it's just the younger folk.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old August 27th, 2003, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Re: Not following dress code

The thing is that I have never seen cruise ship recommendations which state "We suggest that you wear formal tonight or else go and eat in the buffet!". I don't care what others wear, and I don't care where they eat. I'd rather calmly enjoy my three desserts.
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Old August 27th, 2003, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

I've read every one of these posts twice over at least, and I'm astounded at some of the unchallenged statements which have been put down here. First of all, the topic of this thread relates to "not following (the) dress code". It's not about how some people dress nicely while others dress casually. And it's not about who's better than whom, or whether someone agonizes about what someone else is wearing to dinner. It's about dress codes! It's about what was once called discipline!

Let's get back to the unchallenged remarks.
Someone wrote, and I quote: "There are NO RULES that state the dress code. There are SUGGESTED dress guidelines." In a subsequent post that same person wrote, and I quote: "What rules? I think we have concurred that suggested guidelines are not rules." Did any of you read that? Did any of you check to see if this was the truth? When someone says that "we have concurred" about something, I would advise you to think about who concurred about what!

Just because Carnival wimps out with their "a dark suit or formal attire is suggested" statement, that doesn't mean that all of the cruise lines follow suit. For example, let me quote from the Princess 2003-2004 brochure (Caribbean):
"For evening dining, there are two designations for dress codes in our dining
rooms: Smart Casual and Formal. When evening dress is Smart Casual, passengers dress as they would for a fine restaurant at home. Appropriate attire includes skirts/dresses, slacks, and sweaters or blouses for ladies, and pants and open-neck shirts for men. A jacket and tie is optional. In the dining rooms, items such as cutoff T-shirts, halter tops and torn jeans are not permitted, and shoes must be worn at all times. On Formal nights, appropriate attire includes evening gowns and cocktail dresses for ladies and tuxedos, slacks with dinner jackets, or suits for men."
Now does that sound like "suggested" dress guidelines? I think not, Charlie Brown!

Now let's look at what Norwegian Cruise Line has to say in its 2002-2003 brochure (Caribbean):
"We do not allow jeans, T-shirts, shorts, cut-offs, tank tops, bare feet, etc. in any of the restaurants for dinner. There is one optional formal evening in at least one of the main restaurants on every cruise; two formal evenings on longer cruises. This means black tie or dark suit for gentlemen and evening gown or cocktail dress for ladies. But remember, on formal evenings you can always choose to dine in one of the other restaurants instead and enjoy some of the other lounges and leave your dressier clothes at home."
Does that sound like "suggested" guidelines? Not on your life, Bubba!

As has been said ad nauseum earlier, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. That may be true, but it's not the point here. This thread's theme is about adherence (or non-adherence) to formal guidelines known as a "dress code" which, according to Webster, is "a set of rules establishing the type of clothing to be worn in a given circumstance or place". One poster has alleged that there are "no rules", and you apparently accepted it. Have you never heard the admonition, "Don't believe everything you read"? As for me, I'd prefer to verify unproven hypotheses before accepting them as gospel.

I don't know about the "dress codes" for the other cruise lines, as I have only those brochures from which I've quoted. But I'd bet a pound against a pence that most of them have "rules" concerning appropriate dinner attire; too bad that they go unenforced. "If you don't like the laws, change them!" How many times have you heard that? Well, if you don't like the rules on a ship, write to the corporate officials and tell them so. Maybe it will be you who then becomes one of those "fewer passengers" that someone predicted.

Respectfully,

Jack

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  #75 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2003, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

Perfectly stated Jack!
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2003, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

I agree Jack.

But, I'm not going to like leaving my green polyester leisure suit with white shoes in the room on formal night. Now I'm going to have to shop again. <wink>

Regards,
Thomas
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2003, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Re: Not following dress code

Does anyone consider why there are rules or suggestions for dress on formal nights? Probably tradition has a lot to do with the situation and consideration for those who like to really dress up. However, the cruise lines exist for profit, and you will find photographers all over the ship as well as in the dining room on formal nights.

Now, if a cruise line started sending all the passengers away from the dining room when their apparel didn't meet the guidelines, don't you think that some passengers or groups might switch to other cruise lines. The cruises companies are never going to enforce the guide lines as long as there is the possibility of some money being lost. This may sound cynical, but, without profits, there wouldn't be any cruise ships.

In the meantime, I always follow the guidelines, but I could care less what other passengers wear in the dining room.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2003, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Re: Not following dress code

You Hit the NailOn the Head! Good For YOu Jack!!! Maybe We should all be writting the cruise lines of our choice and letting them know we would like the dress codes enforced..... Char
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2003, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Not following dress code

I think that goes both ways Paul. Some people will change cruiselines if they can't get into the dining room without formal attire but some on other cruiselines may now book because of the rule. It's hard to say for sure.

I think the benefit to the cruiseline of formal nights is added revenue from pictures, wine sales, and just the observation that the majority of passengers like formal night.

Regards,
Thomas
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2003, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Not following dress code

We have been cruising for about 15 years now, when we first started it was cruises that were won through my husbands office, it became addicting, and we have been cruising ever since. We had no idea what to expect our first and second cruises, we took the words of others and did what we thought were appropriate. Now that we know, what we think we know, we dress accordingly for all dinners, hubby recentley purchased a tux, and we feel so great dressing up for dinner 2 times a year!!!!!!!!!!! I really do not understand and I am not being facetious in any way, the big deal about dressing 2 times a week. I am basing that on a 7 day cruise. That is part of the fun of cruising, I love to see the ladies and gents all decked out. I don't care if I am 20 or 70, its the fun of seeing all dressed to the nines. Its my vacation and i will do what I want attitude is ruining the cruise lines folks!. Cruising used to be a tradition and a upstanding tradition as well, what has happened to that? I don't care if you dine at a 1 star restaurant or a 5 star restaurant, that has nothing to do with the cruiseline you are on at the time. I am a "get along" type of person and I will not say anything to you but when I am on my cruise i do not want to see someone sitting across from me in a tank top with hairy arm pits laughing obnoxiouly and drunk, and it has happened to me, that is now why I am requesting a table for 2 and now I will be rated as unsocialble
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old August 28th, 2003, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

Our public Library "request " talking in hushed tones only

The movie theater " request " that you turn your cell phone off

Carnival "request" that guest dress nicely on certian nights

Honoring these request are a matter of respect for the cruise line and for others guest that have taken the extra effort to do their part in creating an elegant atmosphere.

I hate to dress up so on formal night I dress as I please and eat at the Lido Buffet
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old August 29th, 2003, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

Hello,

eric and sandy.....at one time.In the brochure Carnival says embarkation was at 1:30 pm. I personally have gotten on all my Carnival cruises before 12:30. So what should a person do? NOT get to the pier until after 1:30? They do not follow their own rules.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old August 29th, 2003, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

Gogetter, maybe they haven't updated their brochures?! So many people will look for any excuse they can find to not dress up on formal nights.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old August 29th, 2003, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

Why are people getting hung up on words like rule, required and suggested? Cruise lines do not dictate behavior with a code of law, at least where passengers are concerned. Suggested dress code is like like an RSVP on an invitation. It's a reminder of proper etiquette. People with social awareness and consideration for others will respond appropriately without being told you must comply or risk dire consequences.

Whether you consider them rules or suggestions, dress codes exist to make people aware of the expected attire on different occasions. They're not something you'd be able to guess, so they're published in advance. Are the protesters looking for legal loopholes? Are they trying to discourage others from complying in order to relieve their own consciences? They should at least take responsibility for their decisions.



Post Edited (08-29-03 07:23)
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old August 29th, 2003, 08:17 AM
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Ah, good response trcruiser! I don't know anyone can argue what you said, but I'm sure we'll get some interesting replies...this thread is on fire!

As I said, I enjoy dressing up, and seeing others dressed up too!
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Old August 29th, 2003, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

"they should at least take responsiblity for their own decsions"...I agree .I do, I am not "easing my conscience" by stating that dress codes are not rules,since I clearly stated that I dress up for formal night. I just do not understand other peoples preoccupation with what others do or don't do. I wouldn't want to sit next to a "hairy ,smelly dirty person " on formal night or any other night!! BUT< if a pleasant couple sat down beside us and they were wearing say, clean khakis and a golf shirt , and the ladies was in a clean , simple sundress, I would smile and say how do you do!! I DON"T CARE what others do, and although some of you say you don't care you obviously do. I don't think we need to site ridiculus exaggerated examples"dirty, hairy arm" etc.pits. There could be a person like that but I have never seen such an obvious infraction of the dress code. I have seen casual, but never dirty or disgusting.

As for you who go on and on about the "rules" I'd love to know if you are the ones posting on how to sneak booze on board(against the rules)
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Old August 29th, 2003, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

My position has been, and still is, that I am gladly looking forward to dressing up as per the "suggested" attire for formal nights. As for what others will wear, that is not anything that I have control over and is outside of my sphere of infuence and as such I will NOT be upset if others don't show that they are comformists. Too many people have posted on here that they will be upset to the point that their formal night experience is ruined. A good many of you consider it rude that others don't dress up. That is your right, I will be more concerned about the rudeness of people hogging lounge chairs, cutting in lines and being loud and obnoxious late at night to the point of disturbing the sleep of others. I realize that I cannot engineer the actions of others and as such I don't expect people to follow the suggested attire on formal nights. As for the other actions I mentioned, I might not be able to control how people act but I can notify them that we do have a responsibility to act civily to others and that they are currently in violation of civility. Sometimes a gentle reminder is all it takes to effect change.

Try giving the person that you are seated with a gentle reminder that they are not following the suggested attire on formal night and watch their reaction. I don't think that you are going to be received too well and I seriously doubt that you are going to effect change in their behavior, rather a serious arguement will most likely ensue. You aren't going to win that one, so that is why my postion is to know ahead of time that some people will choose not to follow the suggested dress code and don't let it bother your experience.

Edited to add that I am sailing on Carnival and my references in this post about the suggested attire for formal nights are specific to Carnival.



Post Edited (08-29-03 16:54)
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Old August 29th, 2003, 04:43 PM
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I agree Roscoe.Well said.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old August 30th, 2003, 05:24 PM
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My husband and I are going on the Dawn this November. My husband does not like to "dress up" every night. He wears a suit 5 days a week. But, we do dress nice. We are looking forward to this new freestyle crusing. We picked this ship for that reason. As long as you dont smell and look nice. Who cares what one wears! Seems like a just a bunch of extra engery to look at what people wear. Its the inside that counts
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Old August 30th, 2003, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Not following dress code

After reading this thread I'm to the point that...

as long as the person has dining manners and doesn't have some form of body odor,

I don't really care what they wear at dinner.
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