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  #31 (permalink)  
Old June 21st, 2004, 08:35 AM
jeast
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

I think that when you have 2000 people stuffed together into a floating resort, you are bound to get some obnoxious people. Drunk, loud adults and badly behaved children. It is the nature of the beast. It probably tends to outshine the 1900 considerate adults and well-behaved children.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Find another vacation alternative or take a cruise line that caters to a different type of person. Sorry, thems the breaks.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old June 22nd, 2004, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

A friend of ours that cruises all the time told my wife and I that she carries her digital camera with her wherever she goes on the ship....and when she sees children playing in the elevators, hot tubs, decks unsupervised....she takes there picture and then goes to the pursers desk.

She said that children are also quite willing to tell you their room number when asked....she said that information is extremely helpful when showing to picture at the pursers desk.
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Old June 22nd, 2004, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

Sorry, GLW, but asking a child for their cabin number regardless of the situation is just creepy and taking advantage of children who do not know better. It's something all parents try to train their children to do...not give out personal info. Can you imagine if a male was asking children that type of question? He'd probably be put off at the next port!

Pea
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old June 22nd, 2004, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

Pea that is exactly what I was thinking. Better to get a staff member to go to the location where the offenders are, in my opinion. There are predators everywhere who take advantage of childrens' willingness to be forthcoming with information.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old June 22nd, 2004, 10:33 AM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

PLEASE read the posts more closely - I didn't say "I" did it.

Not to defend what our friend does....but she said that the first time that she took a childs picture that was acting up in an elevator, the assistant purser asked her if she knew who the litte boy was....and her answer was "Of course not". So, she started asking them! That's all! She said that she has been told to do things that are physically impossible when she either asked the children to stop what they were doing or asked them their cabin numbers.....she said it is alarming at the ages of these children and the words that come out of their mouths.

But, again, it is not what I would do.

Pea.....the problem is, that by the time you go get someone.....they are gone when you get back....that is why our friend said that she started taking their picture. And, again because the staff said that they could not do anything unless they knew who they were....she started asking them.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old June 22nd, 2004, 11:06 AM
Pea
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

I understand the problem, I just don't think asking a child for their cabin number is wise. If someone asked my child that, I'd tell my child to run directly to the nearest adult.

You know, if by the time you get someone the culprits are gone, thems the breaks. It happens all the time in real life and we don't run around with cameras asking kids where they live. Taking a photo is bad enough, but then asking the child for personal info is worse.

Pea
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old June 22nd, 2004, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

Taking pictures of children who are messing around in elevators and asking for cabin numbers is rather insane if you ask me.

I mean come on. Every parent thinks that their kids are relatively well behaved. The fact of the matter is that you put a bunch of kids together without direct parental supervision they will become unruly. It is just plain and simple fact. This is not to say that they are doing things destructive or anything major. They may just be kids being kids. They are going to run around and play on the elevators.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old June 22nd, 2004, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

Pea.....I agree with you. In the normal day to day life it is not considered normal to walk up to little children and ask them there name or where they live. But how many times in your day to day life do you encounter children playing on elevators, running up and down the halls banging on doors, or at the neighborhood pool by themselves. I travel alot with my job, and I never have seen it in a hotel. But from reading the posts on the treads contained on this website it happens alot on cruiseships. And, if it makes me a bad person, then so be it....but if I were to encounter a child playing in an elevator, or running up the halls in the hotel where I am staying....your damn right I would confront them. I would also contact the hotel staff. We are not talking about pedophiles stalking childen here...we are talking about "Unruly children & their parents". On cruisehips!

Oh and by the way - I was just talking to my friend who takes the pictures...she said you should see the faces of the parents when they are shown the pictures. And believe it or not some even thanked her. I told her what the mood of the thread was about her taking the pictures and asking them what there name and cabin number was. And she again told me, without it, the ship would have done nothing about it.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old June 25th, 2004, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

I would definately thank someone who approached be about my childs inapproperate behavior. Most parents know that their children are not always well behaved. Lets face it you can not keep an older child chained to your sides at all times (whether on a ship or land) they need a certain amount of freedom to learn, but I don't think the staff of a ship should turn a blind eye and not inform the parent. I have seen this whole situation in reverse where it is the parents not paying attention to the children and acting unruly themselves. And that is much sadder than a 13 yr old acting like a teen.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old June 25th, 2004, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

On our cruise we let our children go on their own (12 and up). They were warned that if we caught them doing anything wrong the freedom would be over.

Every parent is not as aware of what their children are doing and in fact we saw several parents encourging the rowdy behavior. Example at night (around 10:30) parents and kids would be racing each other to the rooms. Or see what was faster the elevator or the stairs. Or sending the kids to cut in the buffet line for them. Yes, this happened. It is hard to tell a young kid to go to the end of the line but after you see them get the food and take it to their parents you start telling them to go to the end of the line.

We also witnessed one parent correcting a few teenage boys regarding their language. She told them that if they did not clean it up she would find their parents (don't know how she would actually find them but it sounded good). They left the area.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old June 26th, 2004, 01:23 PM
Fondy
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

While I would never spend my time taking pictures or asking kids for their cabin number, I would (and have) addressed people (kids and adults) using inappropriate language. I can get over people cutting in lines and acting silly, but I will not tolerate offensive, foul language. I'm amazed that some people cannot utter a complete sentence without using the "f" word!

To a certain extent, I feel that we do need to allow kids to be kids so I expect some giggling, running, and minor rowdy behavior. I tell my kids (ages 14 and 17) that they need to be considerate of other people when they're in a pool or restaurant or other public venue. I guess we've taken them enough places that they know what is acceptable behavior. (It helps that we send them to parochial school - God bless the Sisters for keeping kids in line!) They're not perfect, but I think they do try to hold doors open for older people and not cut in front of people, etc. However, they are kids and therefore their manners occasionally take a second seat to their excitment (or boredom) as the case may be.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old June 26th, 2004, 11:04 PM
ESS
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

One cruise line only allowed smoking on one side of the ship. The other side was smoke free. Perhaps that type of policy could be instituted for families with children
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old June 27th, 2004, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

kids only allowed on one side of the ship? They pay to come too! W/ smokers, it's only while they're smoking that they need to stay on one side of the ship. You can't just ban kids from half the ship like that.
Kerry M.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old June 27th, 2004, 10:15 PM
Fondy
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

Perhaps we could just tow the little brats (fully clothed in appropriate formal wear) behind the cruise ship in a little dinghy! Of course, we'd have to add the smokers, babies, grumpy old people, drunks, poor tippers, and rude teenagers . . .GEE who would be left on the ship?

I realize that misbehaving children (and adults) are annoying, but I don't think we can confine them to half the ship or dry land. Perhaps if we all set a good example, the parents and by extension the children will learn appropriate behavior. You know, that whole village to raise a child thing?
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old June 28th, 2004, 08:08 AM
Melissa Pasquantonio
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

Some parents do not have the slightest clue when it comes to discpline and teaching thier children manners!!!
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old June 28th, 2004, 10:36 AM
ess
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

Actually some cruise lines have segregated areas for children and adults. Last year I took a cruise on the Grand Princess. They have four pools, one only for children, and one that was adults only. The other two were for everyone, and were unsafe as unruly unsupervised children were running all around and diving into the pool. Prohibitions for both activities were clearly posted, but the parents and the staff did not supervise.

People spend a great deal of money for a cruise. For many of them, it is the trip of a lifetime. They don't want the annoynace of unruly children, and they don't believe that they are part of the village raising children. They have raised their children already, and are not taking a cruise to take on that chore again. It is the responsibilities of the parents to insure that their children are well behaved. If they abdicate that responsibility, than the cruise staff should act as the "village" to insure that behavior is acceptable.

Most of this is common sense. It is interesting how common sense is so uncommon.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old June 28th, 2004, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

One of the big problems is that the cruise staff fears enforcing the rules due to back lash by the parents, i.e. "This is our vacation and we can do what ever... I shall now inform your supervisor." The supervisors fear the home office. And so inconsiderate people get away with whatever they wish. But you can also not expect to be on a cruise and not hear a baby cry.

Melissa, you must either A) have the most well behaved children in the world or B) not have children yet and are in for a rude awakening on how difficult it is to raise them.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old June 28th, 2004, 10:53 PM
Fondy
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

There will always be children (and adults) who are "unruly." However, there will also be some people who can always find something to complain about. Perfect example: my kid has allergies and was breathing heavy while in line to check out books at the library. A lady waiting in front of him turned around and told him it was rude to breath so loud. Guess next time he should just stop breathing all together. (By-the-way, he actually apologized to her when she said that to him!!!)

Not to take the rude kids (and I think we need to also add adults) lightly, but there really is only so much we can do when we encounter inappropriate behavior in a public place. With some people "a look" sends the message or perhaps politely asking them to refrain from whatever. With some people, we should report them to the appropriate personnel, and with some people we just need to chalk it up to poor parenting/poor environment. Whenever my family encounters rude behavior, I use it as a teaching tool and tell the kids it's a perfect example of how NOT to act.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old June 29th, 2004, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

I have a 5 year old who is indeed unruly at times. I do not feel that he sould automatically know what is appropriate and what is not but we do try to teach him. He can only learn from mistakes as well. Depending on the situation depends on how I take action. Now if we are in a public place I warn and let him know that if he continues he will be getting a spanking soon as we leave. If that doesn't work I complete remove us from the situation especially if he is crying, yelling, screaming. I admit that I have let some things go longer without acknowledging him as a person who is not around children would have. I take into consideration of how it effects other people trying to enjoy themselves. I do allow my child to play with toys but no to the point that they are not in the condition of buying or even let them toss them in the floor and leave them. There has been times when my child has ran down a hall at the hotel but not in front of people or making loud noise at that. Just so you know I do have a typical 5 year old boy who is rowdy at times but for the most part on good behavior. His behavior never goes unrecognized either, but usually noticed earlier than later. I have been to places where in my opinion the adults bothered me more than the children. With other children I have noticed a certain look will do the trick but to and adult oh they would be ready to fight. Just to warn any of you people that are bother by children, sworn them off, never had any, etc. My family and friends with five children including my son will be on VOS during Thanksgiving of this year. If it would pose a problem consider rescheduling...Just wanted to sendy a fair warning. Also, neither am I am saying I will allow my child to be unruly with out punishment. I am just curious of some of you who replied to the post even have children....and no I am not saying everyone one of you who had something negative to say but the ones that came off harsh.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old June 29th, 2004, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Re: Unruly children& their parents

ReadytoCruise: You're post is a perfect reminder to all the posters that kids are KIDS and should be allowed to act like them. I think some of the posters would like to see "Stepford" children and that's not realistic (or normal).

My kids are now teenagers and therefore I have different expectations than when they were younger. I actually enjoy watching little kids run and giggle and have the occasional temper tantrum - takes me back to the good old days when my kids were that spontaneous age.

Have fun on your Thanksgiving cruise and let your 5 y/o have fun too!
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old June 29th, 2004, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

Children are allowed to have fun....cruiseships even have programs just for that purpose....But, what most of the posters here are talking is when children's behavior becomes disruptive to other passengers....And any parent that would allow a child to have an "occasional temper tandrum" without regard to the people that are around them is what the subject of this message was about.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old June 29th, 2004, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

ALL children are unruly at sometime.

ALL children have temper tantrums sometimes.

It is just part of being a kid.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old June 29th, 2004, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Re: Unruly children& their parents

Gilly wrote:

> ALL children are unruly at sometime.
>
> ALL children have temper tantrums sometimes.
>
> It is just part of being a kid.

Gilly obviously left out:

ALL parents should control thier children's public behavior sometimes.

It's just a part of being a parent.

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  #54 (permalink)  
Old June 29th, 2004, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

"But, what most of the posters here are talking is when children's behavior becomes disruptive to other passengers...."

What is disruptive to one is not disruptive to others and I think some of the problem begins there. There are people who will not be happy no matter what. Even if all the children on their cruise were perfect they would complain about their sailing is making the pool, dining room, elevators... more crowded. A little compassion and understanding can go a long way. Try remembering back to when your child was 3 and threw the tantrum in a store (out of no where for no reason) instead of sneering at the parents. You may actually feel warmth where your heart is.
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Old June 29th, 2004, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

This is a tough issue for me.

My kids do occasionally disobey and are disruptive. When their actions are in a place or manner that would disturb others I take them out of the situation so I can talk with them about it and discipline them as necessary. If it's appropriate I have them apologize. My daughter is almost 4 so she has had a few opportunities to do this. When I have her do this, I get one of four reactions.

1) The person accepts her apology, and thanks her for being a big girl. This is the best reaction because she can learn from this, and see how her actions affect others.

2) The person says that it's just kids being kids, and not to worry about it. I like the first reaction better, because it teaches her, but at least the person acknowledges what she has said.

3) The person says to me that they don't feel it's appropriate to force her to apologize and make restitution if necessary. This type of person normally says something about how this isn't good for my child's self esteem, and makes comments about my parenting skill. This teaches my kids that other people can overrule daddy on discipline issues, and this ticks me off.

4) The person doesn't acknowledge the apology of continues to complain about the actions of my kids, something like what I've seen posted here. This is often followed by some remark about if kids should be allowed where we are at that time. I'm not talking about the opera or ballet here. I have heard this at a baseball game, the zoo, at the beach, etc.

Sometimes the last 2 reactions make me want to ignore some of the stuff my kids do. I donít because I believe that responsible kids breed responsible adults and vice versa.

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  #56 (permalink)  
Old June 29th, 2004, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

This is a touchy topic. I do agree that this is about disruptive children and the parents who let it go unrecgonized. I was just giving a warning how I discipline my child and for those who will be on VOS the same time as us. DAR said it right in his/her post. Everyong has a different view of what they think is unruly. I have read every single post on this board and most of it was toward the ones who were so harsh. Kids are kids and sometimes adults will be children as well. Really when it comes to the type of people such as babies, toddlers, teens, adults, elders, oh and smokers too someone will get their feet stepped on. The best to do imho is do what it takes for you to enjoy your cruise and do it respectively. If there is something you just refuse to like remove youself from the situation, chose a diffrent cruise type or time to travel. If its elders you hate move ahead of them, go play with the kids. If you dont like children stay clear of them. We really just all have to ge along while on ship but I don't mean any of should have to put up with unruly behavior from any age.
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Old July 1st, 2004, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

Here's a point of view from a married couple without kids. I don't think most people hate or dislike kids, we just hate the bad behavior of some children with no manners. I have been on 26 cruises and have seen some pretty terrible behavior by kids (and yes, I have seen some pretty bad behavor by adults, too!)
But the point is, if you are taking your kids for a "family vacation" and to spend time with them, then please spend time with them and don't just turn them loose when you get on the ship. I have seen (on numerous cruises), kids running & yelling down the hallways at all hours of the day & night banging on cabin doors, jumping in the elevators and punching all the buttons, running in crowded public areas and almost knocking adults down. I think all children should be supervised at all times and a curfew set. There is no reason a child needs to be out wandering around till 2:00 in the morning.
A well-behaved child is a joy to be around.......but a bratty, ill-mannered one is a nightmare!
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Old July 1st, 2004, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

Ditto what Catnip said...............as a single person, I do love well behaved kids. But if your kid is screaming or running around in the dining room, banging the back of my chair, splashing me in the face when I am in the pool, doing cannon balls in the hot tub, banging on my door just for the heck of it, screaming and running down the halls, playing havoc with the elevators, blocking the stairwells......well then I am going to complain. Where are you when your kids are doing these things? Why should others suffer because you can't or won't supervise your kids? If you want a family vacation, fine....then spend the time together as a family! Don't leave them loose on the rest of the passengers!

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Old July 2nd, 2004, 10:53 AM
ESS
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

I don't think it is too hard to decide what behaviors are truly distruptive, and what kind of behaviors are "kids just being kids". Some of the behaviors I would catagorize as truly disruptive are
a. Kids running up and down the halls where the cabins are located at all hours yelling and screaming
b. Running around the pool and diving into the pool where other people are swimming. These pools are small, with many people using them, and that kind of behavior which is clearly prohibited by the cruise lines is a danger to the children and those others using the pool
c. Running around the buffet areas without looking. Children do not pay attention to what is happening around them, and often I have observed children coming into contact or almost hitting adults carrying trays.
d. Using the facilities on the ship in an inappropriate manner. By way of example the Grand Princess has an enclosded 9 hole mini golf course within a fifteen hundred foot area. We were playing a round, while at the same time some unsupevised kids were hitting the ball as hard as they could as if they were on a driving range. The balls were bouncing off the walls and flying everywhere. I for one did not relish getting hit by a speeding golf ball. I told them to take it easy and explained to them how their actions were endangering others, but I do not see my role as either a defacto staff person or a surrogate parent

It is not up to other passengers to supervise other people's kids. It is up to the cruise lines to insure that any unacceptable behavior is resolved in a prompt and professional manner. Most people are paying what is for them a great deal of money for their dream vacation.

On the other hand, I have observed kids on cruises having a great time in an appropriate manner, and bothering no one. It isn't that hard to determine what is inappropriate behavior. Kids and their parents can all have a wonderful time without annoying other individuals.

The great thing about the internet is that the word will get out quickly about those cruiselines that constantly have a youth control problem. Thus it is in the interests of the cruiselines to insure that this problem is resolved.
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Old July 2nd, 2004, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: Unruly children& their parents

For all of you that think the children should be left alone and the rest of us should shut up and mind our own business. On my last cruise I was sitting in my wheelchair in the lobby, two floors up there were two young boys around ten or so, they were throwing ICE CUBES over the balcony at the passengers below and spitting on any that got within range, I nearly got both myself. There were ice cubes all over the marble lobby floor and NO ONE DID A THING ABOUT IT and NO PARENTS TO BE SEEN>

There are things that Kids do that are unacceptable PERIOD in any setting and by any standard. and there is no reason anyone should be put down for complaining about or not accepting such behavior.
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