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Debbie Alles June 14th, 2004 08:53 PM

Never Again RCCL
My family just returned from a Southern Carribean Cruise which sailed out of SanJuan. This is our 4th RCCL cruise ... we have cruised the last 4 summers.

Our orevious experiences have been incredible whis is why we choose cruises as our vacations.

On this particular cruise my husband myself and our two children ages 16 and 13 witnessed events that lierally shook us up:
1. We were palying the Quest game which is an audience participation game when a man approximately 40 years old was running to show his teams number. An 18 year old boy bumped into him and all h**** broke loose. The 40 year old suckered punch the boy and people jumped from the crowd and basically it was mahem. Fist were flying and I truly was concerned for our safety. It took security approx 10 minutes to arrive and break things up.
2. Kids were hanging all over the stairs with boom boxes and were intimidating passengers. Once again no security.
3. I have never seen so many out of control drunk people in my life... and yes I do drink. People were going up to the bands at the pool and yelling out profanities
from the mike.
4. The people at the table behind us included a guy who wore no shoes and his wife who wore see thru outfits with her G string showing.
5. We witnessed another fight in the Casino over a slot machine. Security broke up this fight quickly.
6. At approx 1 am a 18 year old boy staggagared up to me and begged me to help him find his room. He was crying and I swear I was worried he was going to jump off the ship. My husband and I got him help.
7. It took 4 hours to leave the ship on the final day.

Did we enjoy ourselves.... We met amazing people and really focused on the great aspects....although I am ranting. I just think RCCL needs to be careful on how much liquor they are pushing on people including kids who have never drank before. Even though people are not driving does not make them a hazard to themselves and others.
San Juan is absolutely fabulous. I wished we would of stayed there for a week.

jamiegunter June 14th, 2004 09:06 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Wow, I dont blame you. Thanks for info. Good you made it off ship in one piece:)

Trip June 14th, 2004 10:25 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Wow..those are alot of problems packed into a cruise...thats really too bad..

Dorothy June 14th, 2004 10:56 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Boy, I sure hate to hear that about your cruise. It must be terrible to not feel secure on your ship. It sounds as though your other RCCL cruises were better, though. Do you think it was this particular ship?


pg. June 15th, 2004 12:15 AM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Hi that sounds awful, but I don't think we can blame just kids for too much drinking since it was a 40 Year old drunk who assaulted another cruiser and started a riot. I do think the liquor consumption does need to be watched, you know here, if you drink too much in a bar they " cut you off" perhaps cruise ships need to enforce some rules and " cut off" the drunks!!!!!

Some people look at cruising as an excuse to start drinking at 10 am, which IMHO is GROSS!( and yes I drink too, but not like a freaking drunkard!)

JeanS June 15th, 2004 09:23 AM

Re: Never Again RCCL
That is pretty disgusting, I drink too, but not until I'm out of control!! And as PG mentioned, the bartenders should be aware of when someone has had wayyyy too much to drink and refuse them more. There is NOTHING worse than a beligerent drunk!!!

pebbs June 15th, 2004 09:26 AM

Re: Never Again RCCL
did you contact the cruise line??

Kuki June 15th, 2004 12:05 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Unfortunately this seems to be a story we're hearing more and more on sailings out of San Juan.
When the ships aren't selling well (likely having to do with added costs of flying to SanJuan), they are offering them as HEAVILY discounted S.J. resident specials... and many people are taking of advantage to just go and party party party for a week.

Dave the Wave June 15th, 2004 01:36 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
No shoes? In the dining room? Did the g-string wearer at least have a nice butt?

Valentina1209 June 15th, 2004 07:59 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
wow - we were on this shop and this itinerary last year - no such incidents, thank God. Just good clean family fun. I love RCCL and they are always my first choice for cruising with my family.

DAR June 15th, 2004 09:54 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Kuki, how do you know the people she was refering to are from San Juan.
That statement is uncalled for and insulting.

Debbie Alles June 15th, 2004 10:23 PM

Re: Re: Never Again RCCL
I had to write a report and was escorted to a room where a very nice woman explained to me that nothing like this has ever happened on their cruise line. She did say that when they found the man who assaulted the youner gentleman they would take immediate action. I aksed for a follow up but did not receive a response. I had to laugh because one of the people in the room with me was the person who decides on upgrades/rooms. Before they even asked me if I would like a dinner at Portofinos or an upgrade I kindly said I was not looking for any perks. My only concern was the safety of the events on the ship.

The lady with G string was probaly cute to the drunks.... Sober...I am not sure anyone looks good in see through outfits Maybe I am jealous ( :

I agree with the comment regarding the ships size. They are packed. I actually like the smaller ships much better.

Thanks for your positive replies and questions.

Heidict June 16th, 2004 12:39 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
My husband and I are scheduled to take this trip in December. Hopefully, this is just a fluke. Seems like almost all the other reviews have been postive. Hope your's was the exeption. Sorry to hear that your cruise ended up being so crazy but glad to hear that you didn't let it ruin your trip.

The cruise lines need to regulate alchol consumption a little better. Having a few drinks and having fun is one thing, but when people are starting fights, throwing up on themselves and passing out in the hallways then some restraint needs to be done.

And I agree with you Dar. The remark by Kuki was out of line and insulting. Race was never mentioned in regards to who the cuplrits were. Why do you have to automatically assume they are Puerto Rican? Cause the ship left out of San Juan or maybe there is another more personal reason? If it a personal reason, keep it to yourself. White people are just as good at getting drunk and making asses of themselves.

pebbs June 16th, 2004 01:30 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
This is the second time I have read a disparaging comment about Puerto Ricans. The comment has always been that there are many Puerto Ricans on the ships leaving from San Juan....hello....I am from Florida and let me tell you, when there is a sale, I take the cruise ships up on it. Ship from Florida are full of Floridians. I have just felt that the comments on this subject were made in a condescending manner, as if these fine AMERICANS were somehow less than we mainlanders.

This sediment bothers me for the following reasons:

1) I have a very good friend who is P.R.
2) I used to work in a sales company that had a very large Latin American and Puerto Rican sales division. I always envied them because the were loud and boisterous in a supportive manner to their co-workers and when the greeted each other it was always with a kiss and a hug. I believe the Latin culture is much more celebratory than we stodgy old anglos. Maybe this is being confused as different or bad.

My comments above do not pertain to the original poster, because no where in there did she refer to race or region of origin. I am just bothered by what seems to be an ever growing "if the ship departs from Puerto Rico there just may be a large group of Puerto Ricans aboard" it is a bad thing. I think you can count on the ship being occupied with a fair amount of folks from that region and if you don't like dancing and singing and celebration, well then perhaps you should consider another embarkation location.

Kuki.....aren't you a moderator??

babe ruth June 16th, 2004 01:31 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Two factors have not been mentioned here, that probably are involved in the cause of the unfortunate events of this cruise.

First, a year or so ago RCCL lowered its drinking age to 18. Not only can 18 year olds drink all they can afford, but this makes the "fake ID" presented by a 15 year old more believable.

Second, it is a poorly kept secret that all of the major lines have been reducing crew numbers recently. Thus, a lack of supervision and security.

Finally, I don't think Kuki meant his comments as racist. After all, to my observation, most of the people of Puerto Rico ARE white (whatever that means), and they ARE US Citizens. What I think he means instead is that the last minute, "give away" prices some lines give AFTER the time to buy affordable airfare has passed tend to attract a "rougher crowd" from driving distance to the port ---- wherever the port may be ---- due solely to the low price. There have been reported problems like this from cruises sailing out of Florida as well.


pg June 16th, 2004 01:35 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
It was a FORTY year old who started the riot, not the younger man. Here where the drinking age is lower , the statictics do not show an increase in violence as compared to the states where the drinking age is higher.,
It really dcomes down to poorly behaved persons who cannot use any self control.

Maursea June 16th, 2004 03:00 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Re read Kuki's post. Nothing was said wrong. You are out of line to complain.

Kuki June 16th, 2004 03:16 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Interesting.. I made NO comment about RACE at all! What I was referring to was the practice of heavy discounting as "resident specials".

This could hold true if it were residents of Baltimore, LA .. or whereever.

The practice is more prevelant on San Juan sailings ( likely due to the extra cost of air getting there... as I stated)

The price gets cheap enough and they attract many more people who take advantage, and will party hardier.... as opposed to people who have been planning a family cruise vacation for a year or more.

It's very similar to the situation with short 3 & 4 day cruises. People tend to go on them to party hard. Because of the short duration they want to get in all they can.

Those who insist on reading rascism into it are the ones way off base here.

Features Editor

JeanS June 16th, 2004 03:29 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Hmm, I must have missed something, I did NOT see anything said about Puerto Rican's in Kuki's post...

...all he mentioned was the residents of San is everyone else assuming that only Puerto Rican's live in San Juan??

Things that make you go hmmmm...!

zeno June 16th, 2004 07:08 PM

Re: Re: Never Again RCCL
Kuki said and I quote "discounted S.J. resident specials" If he had said "discounted Miami resident specials" about a cruise out of Miami with similar problems would the people who jumped on him still be shouting racism - I doubt it. People it is UNFAIR to project your own assumptions onto a fairly straightforward post.

babe ruth June 16th, 2004 07:29 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
I don't want to put words into Kuki's mouth, but it seems to me that when a cruise has big last-minute discounts that, as a practical matter can only apply to those living near the port because of airline problems, a "rougher element " is attracted to take the cruise, regardless of where the port happens to be. I may be accused of being an "elitist" . However, I am merely noting what has been reported over and over on this board. I am certainly NOT opposed to somebody getting a price break that makes cruising affordable to them, which otherwise would not have been the case. In fact, I'm sorry that the big last minute discounts seem to SOMETIMES bring a "rough crowd" onboard from the port area, regardless of where that is.


ESS June 16th, 2004 09:13 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Good question Dave the Wave. Leave it to the Wave to bring up the important stuff

Jim Bragg June 16th, 2004 10:44 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
No, Kuki is not a moderator. He is a member of staff who mainly does the Cruisemates cruises. I do not think he meant for his comment to be racist, I just have never seen him act in a manner that anyone could call racist or even bigoted. Yes, if you live in San Juan you are a Puerto Rican, (Duh) <VBG>. Most of the locals are of Hispanic heritage and the skin color ranges from black skin to very light skin and all shades in between. Yes the cruiseline sometimes do run "local specials" that are highly discounted and some of the locals that take advantage of these offers are not your typical polite cruisers but those that do not know how to conduct themselves in public. Most do, but there are always those that ruin it for everyone else. I do not know if this was the case on this particuliar cruise or not but it is a possibility. You may have just happened to hit a cruise that was full of jerks.

Thomas June 16th, 2004 11:21 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
"since it was a 40 Year old drunk who assaulted another cruiser "

Where in the world did you read that the 40 year old was drunk in the post???? No where did she say the 40 year old was drunk.

Just another example of someone posting without reading...........sheeeesh!!!!


Whiteknight June 16th, 2004 11:42 PM

Re: Never Again RCCL
I knew someone on that cruise and I think you are the victim of false information. The incident of the collision of the 40 year old guy and the 18 year old guy was not an accident. The 18 year old was one of a group of drunken young people causing problems on the ship. The collision was intentional and he made a comment to the 40 year old about his wife which called for no less than what he received. The others in his group were the ones blocking the stairs with their boom boxes, harassing people, making vile comments to young ladies and shouting profanities over the mike. They were a bunch of drunken punks who had no business on a cruise ship. The drinking age on a cruise ship should start at 21 and no one under 21 should be allowed on a cruise ship without a companion over 25 unless they have proof of marriage. Those punks just tried to turn the cruise ship into a spring break riot. The 40 year old guy wasn't the problem. Get your facts straight.

Kuki June 17th, 2004 12:24 AM

Re: Never Again RCCL
Well this thread has had some "interesting" twists and turns : -)

As Jim said.. I am not a moderator (I've never done anything in moderation, so that title would be in appropriate<G>).

To be somewhat accurate I'm a member of the CruiseMates writing staff. My "official" title is Features Editor. This means I normally get to write about a large variety of cruise topics which appear on the home page when our Editor in Chief, Anne Campbell finds them interesting or fun.
I consider myself a cruise addict not a cruise expert, and try and share that viewpoint in my writings.

Aside from those duties, I oversee the CruiseMates group cruise program which we hope gives our readers the opportunity to meet online and then in person.

I also spend a considerable amount of time on our message boards, trying to share information, and my love of cruising. And in the course of that time spent, though I am not a part of the "message board staff", I do monitor the boards and delete inappropriate posts if I come across them.

I guess I could be referred to as the CruiseMates handyman... except when it comes to the techie stuff. If it can't be fixed with a butter knife, I'm lost.

As to the comments on my original post in this thread, I think I've clearly explained that already, so anyone interested can reread them . LOL

Features Editor

jeph June 17th, 2004 01:22 AM

Re: Never Again RCCL
For what it's worth, I didn't read any racial tone into Kuki's orignal post. The Celebrity cruise (Constellation) I took in Jan of 2003 had the most impressive and elegant decor, food and service I've experienced on a ship. It was round-trip from San Juan, and it did offer big last-minute discounts to locals. A few passengers seemed a little put out to find themselves on a ship with about a third of their fellows being Spanish-speaking, but I neither heard of nor observed any incidents of untoward behavior.

And now, a QUESTION...for Kuki, or Paul, or Anne, or Jim, or whoever has an answer: I know that many airlines develop "no-fly" lists (separate from US gov't security lists) of drunken jerks they don't ever want as customers again; do cruise lines do the same thing, as in a "no-sail" list? And if not, why not?

(Of course, cruise lines are at a disadvantage in this regard, since only about 10% of Americans have ever set foot on a cruise ship. That leaves an awful lot of drunken jerks that cruise lines haven't met yet. Maybe, if it wouldn't be considered too great an invasion of privacy, they could ask the airlines if they might have a peek at THEIR drunken jerk lists, which presumably cover a lot more of the population.)

sue June 17th, 2004 06:55 AM

Re: Re: Never Again RCCL
I did not see anything wrong with Kukis post either!

I have read over and over there are problems with the sailings out of San Juan. Because of this I would never take this sailing if it it was very cheap. And it is true that the shorter sailings out of FL can sometimes attract the party crowd.

I am sorry you had a bad cruise....switch cruiselines and see how they compare.

Gilly June 17th, 2004 07:31 AM

Re: Never Again RCCL
I am sailing out of San Juan on the Adventure of the Sea and am very concerned about this topic. I go on a cruise to get away from this kind of behavior. This kind of thing would be able to ruin my vacation. I will keep my fingers crossed and hope it all goes well.

gigi June 17th, 2004 09:14 AM

Re: Never Again RCCL
I didn't read anything negative in Kuki's post either. All he's saying discounts bring out the worst in people, ever read the stoies about Fileans basement sales and all those women beating the crap out of each other for a poctekbook.

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