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Old August 14th, 2004, 05:21 AM
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Default have you ever been injured on a cruise

i was recently injured on a cruise-have you or someone you know ever delt with this situation (and delt with the cruise lines insurance carrier)? if you can provide any insight please email me at boingophreak at sbc global dot net.
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Old August 14th, 2004, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

We don't sue people as much a Americans, seems to me that they sue everyone even if it was their own fault.

I guess I shouldn't jump to conclusions, as it seems like you are just looking for support . Hope you are fine now, and can put whatever the incident was behind you.
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Old August 14th, 2004, 12:18 PM
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pg, if you have problem with Americans why don't you stay in whatever 3rd world country your from. Your jumping to conclusions about why Brave Mom asked for advise and why, is as bad as your assumption that American are sue crazy. Where do you get your facts to make this assumption?

Brave Mom, if you have had an injury while on a cruise, that's why they sell insurance. If they the carrier doesn't offer to settle fairly, then get a lawyer and sue. Hopefully someone other than pg can offer some advise based on experience instead of assuming your just another sue crazy American.
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Old August 14th, 2004, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

Sorry Zack, but you yourself have a made a major assumption in that pg is from a third world country, why did you do react like that? or is everything outside the states third world to you? That was a question not an assumption

PG, it was a bit harsh, sorry pal
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Old August 14th, 2004, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

BM, did you have travel insurance? As most injuries that can be certified by a doctor or even the line will be dealt with by your own travel insurance company and they will refer it against the lines insurance company for compensation if the claim is valid.

If you travelled without insurance, then you are claiming against the line. That will need a lot of proving re witness statements, treatment reports etc plus a lawyer, plus they will deal with all the hassle.

To be honest your question was too open re what happened and the circumstance of it to fully reply
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Old August 14th, 2004, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

To strart off-I'm not looking to sue anyone. In fact all I wanted to do when this accident occured (and it was purely an accident-a steward left one of the tall laundry carts unattended, and upon returning didnt see that I was standing in front of it-he gave it a push to start it rolling and it ran into me) was fill out an accident report because my hmo would require it if I needed to see my doctor when I returned home. It was the line that required me to see an RN, the Doctor and their Risk Managment Rep. on board. They advised me I had likely suffered whiplash as well as an injury to my leg (where the cart struck me). 2 days after I got home HAL's private insurance carrier called me to open a claim.

All I'm looking for is some information regarding anyone's similar experience-have they had a problem getting reimbursement for expenses when HAL has advised them that they will pay (vs. using their hmo or private insurance)? I would prefer to use my hmo-but I know that the minute they see on the doctor's report that this was due to an accident on the ship they will bounce any bills and tell me to deal with the cruise lines carrier.

As a side note-I'm feeling much better, just sore around my neck and shoulders (w/ a bruise on my leg as an unusual souvineer of an otherwise great vacation).
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Old August 14th, 2004, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

I just wish people would read a post and actually read the post rather than make assumptions!

Regards,
Thomas
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Old August 14th, 2004, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

I cannot give you legal advice since I am not a lawyer. The best I can offer is my 42 years experience handling insurance company claims. You may be between the wall and a hard rock. If you put your claim with your HMO, which in reality is a form of health insurance, the HMO, if it understands there is other insurance that may be involved, has every right to ask you to press the claim with the cruise line insurer. If the HMO picks up the cost of the claim, if the amount is worth the effort, the HMO can always subrogate agaijnst the cruise line or it's insurer.d

The cruise line has the right to ask you to press your claim with your HMO. This is
an inconsistency in insurance law where there are two or more carriers that might be liabile for the same claim. In actual practice where there are two carriers on the same claim,they share 50-50 for any expense or settlement.

Several years ago I was involved with an injury of an alien passenger aboard a RCL vessel. During the lifeboard he injured his hands. There was no uestion his accident was due to negligence that could be attributed to the cruise ship personnel.. When he presented the insurance carrier that provided his Travel Insurance, which had been purchased through RCL, the insurance carrier told him to submit his claim to Medicare. Medicare would not pay the expenses for treatment aboard ship and on shore because the man was not enrolled in Medicare, being a non-citizen and an alien who happened to be taking the cruise as part of his vacation. Medicare will pay outside the U..only under very strict provisions.

The problem with suing a cruise line is the forum clause that requires you to file suit
in the state designated in the passenger ticket. If you were on a Holland American ship, you refer to HAL, you have to file suit in Seattle, Washington.You have to file suit with one year fromf the date of the accident that caused the injury. You can only file a claim in a Federal District Court of you sue for more than $75,000; otherwise you can use a state court that requires small amounts but still has to follow maritime law. Oe of the difficulties with suing is that the burden of proving the accident was due to negligence on the part of the cruise ship personnel.

I am sorry that after all of this I got carried away and not really answeryour problem
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Old August 14th, 2004, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

bravemom - sounds like a very bad experience - did the cruise line offer anything special while you were on board - like unlimited booze to take away the pain? You would think they would bend over backwards to help out seeing as it was clearly their fault - I think you have to fight this thing through - there should definately be some fornm of compensation. I'm not much into the sue for every little thing mentality that seems so pervasive these days - I watch Judge Judy lol - but they were in the wrong. Let us know how you make out and hope it all goes well for you. TTFN Jennifer
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Old August 14th, 2004, 11:21 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

Brave Mom,

I was injured on the Sun Princess several years ago. It was my own fault (I have an artificial limb, and was not wearing it in the middle of the night when I went to use the restroom in my cabin, and I tripped over the lip coming out and fell). Princess was very accomodating and insisted that I see their doctor to be checked out. I went to see him, and he treated me and filled out an accident report, and then did not charge me. He insisted that I follow up with him later in the cruise, and that if necessary see my own doctor when we returned. I have no idea about reimbursement, as I did not see my doc at home.

Bill
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Old August 15th, 2004, 01:03 AM
pg
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

Zack, my screen name is a combination of my intials and my husbands, this has been explained before on this board.
I am sure you consider any country but your own a third world.
You are not worth a further response.
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Old August 15th, 2004, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

Bravemom, I am sorry you got hurt, and I did assume you were looking for information on how to be fincally compensated, partly because I do not understand your health care system, ( hmo's? ) .
We have universal health care so if a person is hurt they don't need to document the where and how to get treatment, I do understand that it may be different with private care.
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Old August 15th, 2004, 11:17 AM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

I agree wholehartedly with pg and I DO live here in the US!!!!! Anyone in their right mind would have to admit and agree that we are in a very litiginous society where people can sue for darn near anything........even if it's their own fault.
How about the lady that sued McDonalds for hot coffee?????? This list of frivolous lawsuits is staggering..........

OK, now back to the OP question........I mother fell while in Cozumel and scraped up her knee really bad (she fell right off the ship on the concrete pier) . I helped her limp back to the ship and we cleaned it off good and put on antibacterial salve and bandaged it up. We did not see the ship's doctor. She hobbled around for the rest of the cruise. I always carry a large pack of medicines and first aid stuff, just for that very reason.
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Old August 15th, 2004, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

pg

Ok, so I accept your apology for stating that:

"We don't sue people as much a Americans, seems to me that they sue everyone even if it was their own fault."

I would appreciate it in the future if you didn't feel the need to paint all of Americans with the same brush. Just like Canadians, we are all different in many aspects. We are not all crooks looking for an insurance claim opportunity.
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Old August 15th, 2004, 02:54 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

Nice to see you guys making up.

Zack when it comes to flag waving I can do it as well for my third word country who happens to have invented in our backwater

the steam engine, the bicycle, tarmacadam roads, the telephone, television, the transistor, the motion picture, penicillin, electromagnetics, radar, insulin and calculus , seen most recently perhaps in the creation of Dolly the sheep, the world's first cloned mammal.

I love my wee third world country.
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Old August 15th, 2004, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

I live about 25 miles from Ontario as well (er...Ontario, Cailforinia that is) and I *love* Canada too -- especially Roger's Chocolates:-)
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Old August 15th, 2004, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

Well, can't help with the OP but I thought I'd say this. Being an american and though a teenager I do believe myself to be reasonably intelligent, as that is what the people around me seem to think, I can criticize our system. HMOs stink. I can't say it any differently. And Americans ARE sue crazy. Remember the big HRT thing last year? We know one of the reps for one of the big HRT companies and the center that did the trial pulled the plug and our media used its sensationalist attitude to blow up a minor difference into something that hurt the companies and scared a lot of people, possibly unnecessarily. yesterday I saw a commercial from one of those money hungry B****** law firms who try and take advantage of everything saying call us to sue the company if you took this HRT med and were diagnosed with breast cancer. What is there to prove that you wouldn't have gotten it anyways? if memory serves, they did always state in their packaging info (which the majority of americans, whom I believe to be a very fast paced people which makes them susceptible to ignorance about fine print, would likely not read) that it may cause increased instances of blah blah blah....If you ask me they have no basis for a claim. But this is the country that awarded a woman a huge sum of money (plenty enough to cruise year round) for falling in a store, due to her OWN negligence in letting her own child run around uncontrolled and tripped over him.
What can I say? America is a good country but we're really messed up.
Hopefully my generation can try and fix some of that.

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Old August 15th, 2004, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

pg always has something to say.
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Old August 15th, 2004, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

Zack I seen pg apologize for remark but nothing from you. It talks two to tangle and two to make up. For the record I am Canadian and I have seen alot of money grabing (slip and fall,etc) lawsuits so Canada is not so pure. I have travellled to the states a few times and I have never had a problem. Beside for a differant accent I could of been in Canada. You have your good and bad in every country.

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Old August 15th, 2004, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

I spose Americans are "sue crazy", but isn't that they way things are supposed to be? I mean, the alternative is to shoot people who wrong you or beat them up, but the civilized way is to use the rule of law. Frivolous lawsuits r thrown out anyway and I don't see any problem with suing for legit reasons, that is just rational to me anyway.



Well, if we tried we could get our system to the point where lawsuits are greatly reduced, and people are decent enough to settle properly. Daytime, I can watch at least 4 court shows with people....relatives even, suing eachother over nothing. The truth is although some frivolous lawsuits are dismissed, quite a few get through, and even if they don't get through, it often takes a while for them to get dismissed.

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Old August 15th, 2004, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

I sprained my wallet on our last cruise.
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Old August 16th, 2004, 06:02 AM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

Matteous I'm not going to get on your level and join you in a pissing match. I will continue to defend Americans and Texans as I see fit. Detriot? I'll let you handle it. I've been there and while you know.
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Old August 16th, 2004, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

Zack
Where on Gods green earth did you get from my op " we don't sue people as much as Americans" that I hate anyone. Shame on you for jumping to conclusions , aren't you the kettle calling the pot black.

I did not want to attack Bravemom, for goodness sake I don't know her, but I do stand by my statement that I believe more Americans file frivolous lawsuits than most, partly because of their laws/ rights( which allow them to) and partly because they need money to get medical treatment, . I also believe it is partly a mentality of " I am owed something".
You know Bravemom did say it was an accident, but I seem to see a post asking what she " got" for getting hurt(' free booze?).
Why should she get anything ( except free medical attention)?
Now this has nothing to do with Bravemom, ( she just started this dicussion going and no further statement neccisarily refer to her situation) but,
sometimes it is like a shark in the water scenting blood, the way some posters have the" I have been inconveniced , where is my free cruise?

Lets face it the HUGE majority of posters on this site are in fact American, so perhaps that is where I have picked up some of my attitude. that most Americans sue for what I would consider small things.

That is my opinion, and quite frankly I am entitiled to it, it doesn't mean everyone has to agree, but is certainly doesn't have to become a " pissing match".

BTW How many Americans think of Canada as a cold snowy country?
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Old August 16th, 2004, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

The number of lawsuits filed by Americans may also have something to do with the number of lawyers in this country. If I'm not mistaken, the ratio of lawyers to other occupations is one of the highest in the world. It's a competitive industry, and struggling practitioners are always looking to drum up new business. Some of them have even taken to advertising with extravagent promises of large settlements. I don't think Americans are especially greedy or lacking a sense of fairness. They're just being marketed to death and the courts play along.

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Old August 16th, 2004, 11:05 AM
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Perfect example, Frequent Cruisers post. That is the kind of stuff that makes me think you guys are sue crazy.

A legal remedy to getting bumped by accident !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pay the medical bills, but getting more out of it is silly. ( not that BM said she was interested in that) .
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Old August 16th, 2004, 11:20 AM
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An accident still affects the person. For some people a simple sorry will do. For others that is not enough. It is up to each person to decide how to act and to each court that hears a case to determine its outcome. At least the U.S. allows people the opportunity to seek legal remedy. The system of course has problems but it is still a necessary avenue in many cases.
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Old August 16th, 2004, 01:50 PM
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" At least the US." ......
Other countries allow their citizens legal recourse also, not just the States.Why do you guys aways think your country is the only one with " rights" .Legal recosure is available in many many other countries, ( Germany, Italy, Greece, England, Scotland, Canada, Japan, Australia, New Zealand,Ireland, Finland, Swedan,France, Netherlands, Switzerland, etc. etc. ) . In many countries it would be " frowned upon" to sue , but it is available.

Serveral posters seem to have said that " we sue because we can" as an point of the issue. I just don't get it, just because you can sue, you do?
So the cabin steward makes a simple innocent mistake and you want to take him to court?I mean Bravemom hasn't stated that she was injured severily, it sounded like a bruised leg and a sore neck. Sorry, I agree that the cruise ship should either pay for the medical attention needed, or provide the documents needed to enable the injured party to claim to their HMO.
Actually it sounds like the cruiseline behaved fine, and that Bravemoms concern was the stupid HMO system you have, why don't they just fix people out without always tryiing to get out of paying for care. I always hear of people having stuff " denied" . Do you pay HMO's ?Why are they allowed to decide who gets medical care and who doesn't? What if you can't afford a HMO? Do poor people get care? They must, as I know the States is a progressive country that wouldn't let people die becuase they can't afford care. Is is all the frivolous stuff that ties up the system?

This is way off track now, so I realize we may not need to get ito it on this forum, all I know is that medical travel insurance is important no matter what system one is on.
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Old August 16th, 2004, 02:25 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

pg, I think the defensiveness may be due to perceived criticism of the country or its institutions by 'outsiders'. You might have a similar reaction if I were to make negative comments about socialized medicine. Debates involving nationalism can get quickly overheated and belong outside this forum.

Just to give you some information about my background, my family is 8th generation Canadian and 4th generation American. There's a town in Quebec where most of the residents share my surname and a lot of Canadian-American intermarriages on the American side. I don't need to explain about the Canadian vs. Quebecois rivalries I've encountered. When I was growing up in Detroit we used to think of Ontario in the same way as Ohio - the province/state next door. While there were many cultural differences, the country seemed more familiar than foreign. Even having this close association, I don't feel competent to judge Canada's institutions. Perhaps you, as a Canadian, have similar biases regarding my country?

Anyway, to return to topic, I'll add my wishes that brave mom successfully resolve her insurance claim and receive her rightful compensation.

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Old August 16th, 2004, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

Hey I'm going to get one of tjose Amerian Lawyers and get him to sue one butt on this board, because they said I was a from third world country. <G>

Now I cant sleep at night, cant have sex with my wife as I hear these words all time "your from a third word country" They are always there..............in my head

My life has been destroyed, I'm on medication from my doctor, my work is suffering. I see a head shrink twice a week and someone is going to pay for the bills I am gaining due ot their disrespect and they are growing daily due to my own ability to deal with life and things, and people that I happen to meet while living it......... or lets be honest this person might have a few dollars or insurance and I could have it all if I play my cards right. <G>

No doubt there are flaws in all societies, but sometimes people work the flaw and having seen the results for others will try and do the same. The principle is great, but the courts and jury's must step back and be realistic, because thats what makes the news (the big award), others see it and want some, it becomes an epidemic

Question for my USA and Canadian mates.

If I sued someone here in the UK and the case was found against me, do you have to pick up the court and legal costs of the person you sued?

The right to sue in this country is available to all, but if you are wrong in the eyes of the court, you pick up all costs. That may put a different light on things and could maybe reduce the number of claims
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Old August 16th, 2004, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: have you ever been injured on a cruise

I've just re read above,,,,, got to stop speed typing and get a spell checker,,,sorry
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