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  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 29th, 2005, 07:17 AM
Jim Lee
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Default "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credit Ca

BEWARE NCL made additional charges to my debit card 10 days after debarking which overdrafted my account and caused me to have $150 in overdraft fees. One month after the money was charged to my account and after being on the phone with them many times and faxing them all my bank account information, twice, NCL has still not told me what the charge is for or who made the charge. I was finally notified yesterday that they made a mistake and I will be receiving a credit for the item but they are not sure if they can refund me the overdraft charges.

We keep all of our receipts when we charge onboard and we do not have a problem paying for anything that we charge when we cruise but we would like to know what the charge is for, and don't want to be charged for it 10 days after debarking.

No one has ever contacted me I have always contacted them even after leaving 3 messages for Danniel the Norweigen Sea account manager.

EVERYONE PLEASE look at your bank or credit card account closely days after returning to make sure you have not been charged for something that you didn't purchase. If so keep on them, call or write them often and write a letter to your Attorney General which I will do if they don't refund my overdraft fees.

I am sure I am not the only one that this has happened to.

Please post a message if you have any information, comments, questions, or if this has happened to you. I will keep everyone informed on any changes.
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Old January 29th, 2005, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Sorry this happened to you. I sincerely doubt that this is a plot on the part of NCL to steal money from unsuspecting passenger, as your post implies. I'm just as sure that it will eventually be resolved.

Debit cards might be fine for grocery shopping and such, but I think they are an unwise choice for travel.
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Old January 29th, 2005, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

A debit card can not have additional "charges". A debit card can only debit funds from an account. It doesn't work like a charge card (amex) or a credit card (visa, mastercard, etc).
In addition, funds can only be debited each time the transaction is authorized (when you select account and enter pin) or your branch can debit your account if they have reason to. There are only two other ways to debit your account, a pre-authorized debit done by you, or through your online banking. It can not be done by a retailer or company after the fact.

If you did not present a credit card, but had a cash account to pay for your onboard purchases, then they would have swiped your debit card for a preset cash amount, and you would have authorized it. They can not process any additional transactions on your behalf with your authorizing them. I am not calling you a liar my friend, but have a look at the transactions again!

yaay, I get to comment on something I know about

banker
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Old January 29th, 2005, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

I don't think JimLee is saying that NCL intentionally over-charged him. And I too feel it was an accident. We use a credit card, and have had such accidents on other lines (RCI, I recall). Rather, the problem is NCL's slowness in taking care of the problem and lack of committment to make Jim whole for the overdraft charges.

That being said, we think that debit cards are dangerous little beasties, and we refuse to even own one --- let alone use one on any trip or vacation. In this day of identity theft, having a debit card jut makes it too easy.

Thanks,
Richard
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Old January 29th, 2005, 12:29 PM
mara
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

A good rule of thumb is to cancel your credit card as soon as you return from a trip and have the company issue you another number. This stops any charges being put through by unscrupulous vendors or anyone who may have your credit card number.
(By the way I am not saying that NCL are unscrupulous) We always do this after having things charged to our Mastercard after our return from a trip. It saves a lot of headaches and phone calls.
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Old January 29th, 2005, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Sorry Banker, but you're forgetting one thing. Many people refer to their VISA guaranteed check cards as "debit cards" and they work EXACTLY like a charge card. Like your debit card, they are linked directly to your checking account, but like a credit card, you do not have to enter a PIN number and retailers (including the cruiselines) treat them exactly like a credit card.

I have used mine for cruises, car rental, hotel stay, etc. But, of course, the money comes directly out of my checking account and I have no charge bill to pay at the end of the month. I have even disputed a charge and VISA instantly credited it back to my checking account until the dispute was resolved - just like with a charge card.

I don't know if the original poster meant check card or debit card, but if he used his check card this could have happened. Debit card, you are correct, it could not.

dorothy

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Old January 29th, 2005, 12:56 PM
Reen
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

My son uses his debit card as a credit card in some retail places. This way he isn't charged a bank fee.
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Old January 29th, 2005, 02:07 PM
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Default Re:

thanks Dorothy for bursting my bubble!

The original poster said "additional charges to my debit card" so I was responding to that. But you're right visa check cards work in a similar way but if you just use them as a credit facility they can be charged like any credit card, but if you use them as a debit facility they can only be used each time the transaction is authorized.

Reen, I have never heard of a debit card that can be used as a credit card but when I hear about it - I'm getting one!!

A credit card is unsecured borrowing based on repayment capacity and past credit history. A debit card is just an instantaneous way or writing a cheque (ie funds you already have in your account that you are drawing from). A credit facility has to be applied for and approved by a lending institution. If you could get credit with having it approved (using a debit card as a credit card) then I want one. Sign me up!

banker
(everyone looked up to a superhero as a kid, banker's hero wore pinstripe grey and his weapons were 6 hb2 pencils perfectly sharpened the same length in a belt holster)

Post Edited (01-29-05 14:14)
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Old January 29th, 2005, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Thats why I use cash. I put hundreds in the account and jsut use the sail n sign card. i dont have to worry about who has access to my acct numbers or whatever. At the end if I have a balance I receive a check under my door for the amount i have left. That is with carnival it works that way anyway. Happy cruising....
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Old January 29th, 2005, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

And as a very small child, Banker's mother played no lullabyes to get him to sleep. Instead, she worked an adding machine until Little Banker drifted off into the land of credits, debits, and transfers...
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Old January 29th, 2005, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Okie, in my pleasant dreams everyone has excellent credit, great verifiable income, lots of security, and want to borrow money for no reason at all and pay interest even though they're the one's that don't need to borrow.......

In my worst nightmares, someone, disguised as a tax auditor, comes and audits my books.........and silently makes notes...........after a while, I walk over to see who it is............only to find it's my WIFE....AHHHHH!

I usually wake up at that point........what do these dreams mean???



banker
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Old January 29th, 2005, 05:32 PM
Reen
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Banker..My son has a card that is also his ATM card and the funds are taken out of his checking acct. His bank told him ..when making a retail purhase..if he uses it as a debit card for payment..he will be charged a bank fee for doing that. To avoid that fee, the bank said he could say its a charge card and won;t be charged a bank fee. So that what he does. Is a check card and debit card the same thing? I never heard of a check card.
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Old January 29th, 2005, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

reen, I haven't heard of that because when the retailer selects credit, that transaction processes differently and doesn't ask for a pin, hmm

when the retailer selects debit, then it prompts "checking" or "savings" and requires a pin.

The check card allow the user to use a debit card where they take credit cards. So if they don't have the set up to process debit (ie select account and enter pin) then it processes like a credit card up to the preset amount you have authorized, but it comes out of your account. It also allows you to use it like a credit card online etc where it's not possible to enter a pin.

banker
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Old January 29th, 2005, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

I have dreams like that, too, Banker, usually something along the lines that I have been unable to remember the difference between sine and cosine. I wake up bathed in sweat. I try to snuggle with my wife for security, but she just says, "Eww, you're all gross," and I'm left to ponder my life while waiting for the dawn. Inevitably, a dog barks in the distance.

What it all means, I have no clue. Yet it happens.
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Old January 29th, 2005, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

"A bank is an institution which will lend you money, provided you can prove you don't need it." (Always liked that quote...can't recall if it's from Ambrose Bierce's "The Devil's Dictionary" or someone else, though.)
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Old January 29th, 2005, 11:43 PM
Jacqueline Blackmon
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Default Re: Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your C

Banker, I agree with all you said, except, I have a debit/check card that I may use as a credit card (if a pin # is not accepted) however it a is always taken from my checking account. i.e. if the money is not available the charge would be declined. There is no way I would be charged od fees because the charge simply would not go through
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Old January 30th, 2005, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Then it's not a credit card. If the funds have to be in the bank account for the card to work it can't be a credit card, period.

You can use a credit card even if you have no funds whatsoever. You will get a bill at the end of the month (duh!) for your purchases. It's credit ! Don't pay this bill for several months and your credit card won't work either.

Regards,
Thomas
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Old January 30th, 2005, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Correct me if I am wrong.

On lines you register a card when boarding, from that they count your bill for the cruise and "give you" at statement of account at the end the cruise. On the last night I have never actually signed off that bill,,,. which in a way leaves it open!,,,,,correct

I'll have to go back through my paper work, but when you register the card I'm sure there is statement in there on the docs you sign that allows them to back charge for services you have received that did not meet that last nights bill.

In Jim's case it was a mistake and led to grief, wasted money and time. But I'm sure this clause runs through all lines and not just NCL, when you register a card.

So people, keep those copy receipts when you sign or if you do not have it and are in dispute, ask them to produce their copy with your signature. That is the key, the signature.

In bars, restaurant or shop that is the authorisation that covers them for CC transactions being authorised, plus your registration when boarding. No signature, no bill
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Old January 31st, 2005, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Banker, I have a card from my bank that can be used as a "debit" card - where I have to put in my PIN number to make purchase ( I use this option only and only when I am grocery shopping or stopping at Walgreens.....) OR it can be used like a credit card, but the amount is automatically deducted from your checking/savings account - you do not need to enter your PIN for this type of transaction. My card had a VISA logo on it. But, after listening to consumer advocates, I will not use this card like a credit card, because just because it has the VISA (or MC) logo on it, you do not get the benefits and safeguards that actual credit cards have. Yes, some will say their banks do honor those benefits like disputing charges, etc......but most banks will not.

I would NEVER use a debit/checking card for any type of payment on or for a cruise.

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Old January 31st, 2005, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

A lot of new security features are just around the corner.

Hey, I remember when I was a young lad there was something called chargex. The retailer would run your card through the chssshhkk chssshhkk machine (apology for the crude sound effects) and they would send the last copy of the chargex slip, which was soft cardboard to their bank every sunday night for processing. Then the weeks transactions would be posted. The criminal of today would have a field day with that system running up charges before being caught. Even the phone authorizations weren't posted until the next day.

David, you guys still use the chssshhkk chssshhkk machines over in the U.K. don't you?? -

I don't know if criminals are getting smarter causing more security in technology, or better technology is making criminals get smarter trying to beat it. It makes you wonder though....

banker
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Old January 31st, 2005, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

I never use my debit card for major purchases I use the credit card then pay it off when the bill comes in.

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Old January 31st, 2005, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Banker, just in case you think the heather is still sticking out my ears !!!

No,,, we are actually on chip and pin cards for nearly the whole population (renewed at expiry so some still waiting), no signatures required.

For any transaction in any store, supermarket or restaurant. They present you with a terminal for you to input your card and key in your pin number, some even "wireless".

This is both for debit and credit cards. So no taking your card away and "swiping" it to potentially make copies.

Plus if a restaurant, shop or whatever does not present this technology and still work on signature only, then if the transaction proves false or due to theft of the card. They pick up the cost, and because of this risk they are all providing the technology

regards from the backwater

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Old February 1st, 2005, 12:04 PM
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Default Re: Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your C

I have no debit card, and I use my "no annual fee" credit card for all my major purchases. I pay the total off at the end of the month and pay no interest. The card gives me bonus points which I can use for free motel rooms, etc.

This seems to be the best of all worlds, but the bank is probably not too happy with me!.
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Old February 1st, 2005, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

yeah Paul we hate ya

interest avoiding, full balance paying, point accumulating, credit card lover......

we don't want your kind around here!

banker
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Old February 1st, 2005, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your C

Hey, guy, I wouldn't be surprised if you do the same thing! Just don't let your boss know!
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Old February 3rd, 2005, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Where's Jim? He hasn't returned to answer if it was truely a debit card or what? I am sure if this is really how it happened NCL did not do this on purpose, but made an honest mistake and I find it hard to believe no one from NCL will get back to him.

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Old February 4th, 2005, 01:26 AM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

Not only NCL. I authenticate my credit card on boarding, I keep all "slips" until get the "pre disembarking bill" the night before the end, Twice while on Crystal I found charges I had not made. I went immediately to the front desk and asked to see their copies of the slips, when found they were for bottles from the locked drinks cabinet and were unsigned.

Without a signature the charges were removed from my bill , later I heard others complaining re the same problem, since we were all from the same corridor, would seem the the cabin staff had helped themselves to some "freebies" for a staff party .
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Old February 4th, 2005, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

PaulB, we still like you since the merchant pays a fee to Visa/MC for accepting the card and the issuing financial institution receives a portion of the fee. So, we still make money, just not as much as we would like

Also, for the checkcard/debit card transactions you are protected by Reg. E (U.S. only banks only) that allows you to dispute the transaction within 60 days of your statement. The financial institution has to provide you provisional credit within 10 days and has up to 45-90 days to research the charge. Basically, the merchant has to prove it was you that authorized the charge. As of today, no law exists to protect you against a forged check, leaving it up to you to prove the item was forged.

Kat
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Old February 4th, 2005, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credit Card day

yeah.......I was just about to say that -

the wanna be banker

Post Edited (02-04-05 21:46)
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Old February 5th, 2005, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: "BEWARE" NCL makes false charges to your Credi

This is why I opened a Cruise Account! "What's that?" you ask?

. . . . gather around children . . . . it's just another stupid bank account with it's own debit/visa card. I always hated having to rush to pay the credit card but I didn't want strangers attaching themselves to my bank account. I made sure that it's not attached to my regular accounts so my life long savings isn't being threatened. Before and during the cruise, a simple phone call allows me to transfer my "fun money" into the cruise account.

Oh, and yes, you can have overdraft fees on a debt/visa account. My bank will gladly honor any transaction that comes through even though there's not enough money in the account. They like me. I had to have them put a note on my account that refuses any transactions outside of my current balance. It would run me $29 each time they "allowed" me this courtesy!

Banker, get counseling for those nightmares. They'll lead you to believe that you work 9-5 and are off on Sunday's and holidays!
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