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  #1 (permalink)  
Old February 20th, 2005, 12:54 PM
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Default Ship is so old!

I am tired of hearing people say that a certain ship is old because it is 8-10 years old. I was reading a review on the Grandeur here and the author said the ship was in good shape in spite of it's age. It was bulit in '96 and refurbished in '01. Well how about your age? Are you in good shape for an older broad? I have been on the Regal Empress, that is old but yet a great time and a classic. I am getting ready to go on the Sovereign for the 5th time. Yes, it is 17 years old but will be a classic some day. Is your daughter over the hill because she is 17? I had a VW Van older than that. My Seiko diving watch is 20 years old. Should I throw it away when it works fine? I am going on the Enchantment again after the stretch. It was built in '97 and is a beautiful ship. My house was bulit in 1947 and will be around a long time yet, another 100 years I suppose.

Before you go calling my favorite ships old, look at your self in the mirror in your bikini or Speedo and ask yourself, "How do I look for my age?"



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old February 20th, 2005, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

lol
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Old February 21st, 2005, 10:17 AM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

I am glad someone enjoys my sense of humor. But I am serious.



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Song of America Dec '90
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Sovereign X 5
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

My favorite cruise was on a ship that was considered a relic.. to me, it harkened back to a different era of cruising.. I really enjoyed the smaller ship.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

i agree that ten years of age doesn't sound 'old.' but one of the officers aboard the rotterdam shared with a number of us on a recent cruise that the newer ships were built with a 'lifespan' of ten to twelve years in mind, and that the cruise line considered anything beyond that as 'gravy.' alas, i guess it is the 'toss-away' culture in which we live. i wonder how many cruise liners built these days will ever be considered 'classics.'
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 10:29 AM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

The situation here is that cruise ships share a thing or two in common with the car you drive. If you drive it "normally", after five or six years, you are going to have to sink some money into it if you want to keep it in first class condition in mechanicals and appearance. Unfortunately, this is not something the lines want to do with many ships. I too wish they would.

Thanks,
Richard
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

I would still be driving my 1982 VW Van if it didn't self destruct from an engine fire a couple years ago. Now my 2003 Honda Element (I sold to myself) will last 10-20 years or until my kids get hold of it. Buy or build something of quality and it will last.



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Song of America Dec '90
Starship Majestic May '89
Sovereign X 5
Majesty Jul '01
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Regal Empress Dec '02
Sensation '04
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Grandeur Feb '08
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 12:45 PM
duane
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

I sailed on the NCL Sea it was built in 86 and I loved it. Remember everyone, the Titanic was new and that cruise didn't go so well.
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

Even a "new" ship can look old if it's not maintained right. Give me a clean ship and a happy crew and I'll have a great cruise!
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

Somethings get better with age. Just like there are classic cars out there, VW vans among them. You will never here of a Ford Taurus referred to as a classic. You will not see any of the Fantasy class considered classics. The Sovereign of the Seas will be. It set a new standard when it came out and I have had a great time every time on her. They have a great crew and the ship has class.

Look at this picture of the Sensation. That ship is just ugly. It looks like a milk carton turned on it's side. No open promenade, no distinction between the hull and superstructure, the main pool is like swimming in a well and all that purple! YUK!



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Song of America Dec '90
Starship Majestic May '89
Sovereign X 5
Majesty Jul '01
Enchantment X 4
Regal Empress Dec '02
Sensation '04
Mariner May '07 April '08
Grandeur Feb '08
Inspiration Oct '08
Radiance of the Seas Oct '10
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

Ships used to be built to beviable for 40 plus years. In the Navy it was not unusual to be placed about a ship 15-20 yrs old and in many cases ships were over 40-50 yrs old! They were just as spotless as when they came out of the shipyard the first time.
Jim

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old February 23rd, 2005, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

About five years ago, we INTENTIONALLY booked a cruise on a very old ship, for the historical experience. We did an E. Caribbean cruise on NCL's SS Norway, formerly the SS France ocean liner. This ship first sailed in 1960. Reason? We wanted to see what an ocean liner was like (as opposed to a cruise ship). We had no desire to take a crossing or cruise on Cunard, as we personally feel Cunard fares are way too expensive, considering that they too are a "nickel and diming" line. So we booked the Norway, which also "nickel and dimed", but had low fares to go with this.

At that time, NCL had done a very good job of keeping up the public areas. They looked nice. The cabins, suites, and adjoining halls could have used a little "love" ---- well, a lot of love! The ship had classic liner styling, and didn't look like a milk carton. The ship had too few elevators by cruise ship standards, but this was not a great problem. But she had a 37 foot draft, and had to tender to the shallow E Carib. ports, and this was a bit of a problem. Food was fully up to NCL standards, meaning it was only "good". But we truly enjoyed being on this ship, as it did have character. We were left wishing that the Norway might someday find a new owner to fully restore her, and perhaps get rid of some of those tiny cabins (which we were lucky to avoid). And perhaps to assign her to an itinerary of deep water ports such as Europe. But, as we know, she suffered a boiler explosion, and last I heard she is being scrapped.

For what it is worth, we think that a ship like the Norway, if she were fully restored and assigned to the right itinerary, would be popular. Especially among regular cruisers who are "burned out" on what has become standard cruise ship design. It would provide some of what we think is needed right now, and that is some diversity in cruise experience --- which is sorely needed in an era of "one size fits all" cruising.

Thanks,
Richard
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old February 23rd, 2005, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

I was planning to go on the Norway too for the experience. Then after the boiler explosion, it has been laid up ever since. I don't think it has been decided to scrap it yet though. I wish NCL would hurry up and do something about the SS United States they bought and promised to restore. It is sitting laid up and getting rustier too.

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Song of America Dec '90
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old February 24th, 2005, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

i thealso sailed on the norway. i once saw her in st. thomas and was just taken by how beautiful she seemed. sadly, the actual experience was not a good one. up close, she was kind of shabby, the elevators to the suites did not work, the pools closed very early, the staff was curt and uncaring, and some of the other workers were downright rude. all of which, i suppose, says more about the cruise line than the ship itself. i have never entertained the idea of another ncl cruise. i always choose hal because their ships still look and feel like ships; no milk cartons here.
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Old February 25th, 2005, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

LMAO!

Dave, with all due respect you claim a Fantasy ship ugly and drive an Element??? That's got to be the ugliest car on the road. Sorry, my opinion only.

Regards,
Thomas
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Old February 25th, 2005, 01:06 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

Thomas,

You are entitled to your opinion. That is what is great about this board. People called my VW bus ugly too. It is functional. I like a vehicle I can walk around in, sleep in and host parties in. I have the tent and curtains for my Element. If I spill my beer, I can hose it out.

But yes, the Fantasy class are butt ugly!

Regards,
Dave

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Song of America Dec '90
Starship Majestic May '89
Sovereign X 5
Majesty Jul '01
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Sensation '04
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Grandeur Feb '08
Inspiration Oct '08
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Old February 27th, 2005, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Re: Ship is so old!

Dave,

When my wife's car was hurricane crushed and we had to replace it, she was actually looking at an Element. It was a great deal. It was still on the showroom floor, new, from 1993, and this was the fall of 2004. They couldn't move it in over 2 years.

I told her if she bought that thing I was leaving. She started talking to the salesman about price. I told her if she bought that thing I was leaving and taking the wiener dog!!!!

She told the salesman, "No thanks, I'd like the CRV"

Regards,
Thomas
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old February 28th, 2005, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

Thomas, the CR-V is a great choice too. I bought the first one in 1997 when they came out. My EX still has it with 135K on it now. Yes, she got the CR-V and I got the house and the VW van. Two months later the VW blew up but since it was over 20 years old, it was considered a classic and my comprehensive paid me over $7000 for it. I immediately bought my Element and booked a cruise.

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Song of America Dec '90
Starship Majestic May '89
Sovereign X 5
Majesty Jul '01
Enchantment X 4
Regal Empress Dec '02
Sensation '04
Mariner May '07 April '08
Grandeur Feb '08
Inspiration Oct '08
Radiance of the Seas Oct '10
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Old February 28th, 2005, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

Well, since she was driving it most of the time I relented and let her buy the CRV, but it would have been way down the list of my choices. Too much road noise, only an inline 4-cylinder, and no keyless remote entry. But it's hers and not mine.

Regards,
Thomas
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old February 28th, 2005, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

Back to "old ships". Radisson is losing two of her ships in the near future. One, the Diamond, built in 1992 and leased by Radisson, has been sold by her owners and Radisson declined to buy her under its right of first refusal. The Diamond is a unique 390 guest ship that is actually a twin hulled powered catamaran. The other, the Paul Gauguin, built in 1996 and also leased by Radisson, has also been sold to owners who don't want to lease to Radisson beyond '06. The PG is a 290 guest ship that is unique in that she was built with a shallow draft for cruising in French Polynesia, which she has done all her life. The Diamond is destined to become a gambling ship in Asia. The PG will be operated by Grand Circle Travel, and will be sent God knows where.

These ships will probably and eventually be replaced by "cookie cutter" versions of Radisson's 700 guest "formula" ships, like the Voyager. The Diamond and PG were by no means failures as to bookings, and both had quite a following. They each offered a unique cruise experience, unlike the "one size fits all" newer ships.

It's a shame.

Thanks,
Richard
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old February 28th, 2005, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

any thoughts on why Richard? If sales were not a problem, and Radisson has established a niche and fine reputation with the equipment they had, then what was their reason?

thanks
banker
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old February 28th, 2005, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

banker:

According to Mark Conroy, Radisson's president, the change in ownership on both of these ships came up rather abruptly. Not a lot of time for stategic planning. So Radisson merely defaulted to it's "formula ship" concept, which is the 700 guest, 50K ton, all suite, all balcony ships like the Voyager. And thus, Radisson decided to spend its capital on a future new ship or two of this description, rather than buying these older ships. Also, admittedly, the Diamond is slow (13 knots max.), is all outside room but not all suite all balcony, and is experiencing periodic mechanical problems. The Diamonds's twin submersible hull design made her very stable, but horribly fuel inefficient. If there is any benefit of doubt on the Diamond deal, I can't see any on the Paul Gauguin. Sure, it is not all suite all balcony, but these things aren't really needed on its port intensive itinerary. Also, where the new owners are gointg to cruise her is a real mystery. She has a 15" draft, which is so shallow it is suitable only for the reef-protected waters of French Polynesia. (The new owners are considering taking her around the South American horn and to Antartica. With the rough waters there, it should be a hoot!) Further, a 700 guest ship probably overstates the market for year round French Polynesian cruising as the Paul Gauguin has cruised. A new ship of around 300 guests would be nice, but neither Radisson nor any other line is having new ships that small built, these days. And, the Paul Gauguin's unique cruise has won many "reader's polls" as the best small ship cruise.

So bottom line, Radisson made a judgement call on the Diamond, and a real mistake on the Paul Gauguin.

Clearly, I am not an owner of this line! If I were, I would have fought hard to keep both ships. In keping with the subject of this thread, they are unique and have character. The 700 guest, 50K ton ships like the Voyager are excellent and spacious, but variety in cruising is needed.I mean, how many repeat cruises on a line do you want to take when all the ships are carbon copies?

Thanks,
Richard
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Old February 28th, 2005, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

Sailed the CCL jubilee in 02. Now she was about 17 years old, but was our first cruise.

The ship was clean, well maintained,and charming. However they do need to re-do the big lounge. all that black and red velvet looks sort of "Elvis"

The room was very comforatable and food was great!
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Old March 1st, 2005, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

I am with you on the older ship deal. My first cruise was on the Caribe 1, later the Regal Empress (went on it when it was the Regal Empress, too!), and I fell in love with cruising as my right foot hit the deck in July of 1985 (or was it '86?). Anyway, my second love (cruiseship-wise) was the Veracruz. I know that there are a few other folks who frequent the boards who have been on her as well. I met my husband on that ship, but besides that it had a charm and character that no big ship could ever pull off. Besides the fact that the staff and crew were very accommodating and attentive to everyone's needs. There were always a lot of senior citizens on the Veracruz, and it takes special people to take their needs into consideration. The food was good, and entertainment was fun, too. We have sailed the Soveriegn, too, again with the smaller ship

Anyway, love those old smaller ships!!
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Old March 1st, 2005, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

Speaking of old ships, the Norway was reportedly sold for scrap yesterday. Once a beautiful ship and an icon. It will be sad to see her go. There are still those trying to save her but she will be on her last and one way cruise soon.



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Old March 1st, 2005, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

DTW:

This does not surprise me, as the last I read stated the Norway was very close to being scrapped. One boiler blew up, and that is all insurance would pay. But the other two boilers were "suspect" as well, and neither NCL nor any other potential owner was willing to book cruises on her without THREE new boilers. Very expensive, as it is reportedly very difficult to find anybody who knows how to build a boiler these days. Very sad to see her go.

Thanks,
Richard
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old March 2nd, 2005, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

I have a boiler in my house maybe I can help save her
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Old March 14th, 2005, 12:04 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

i sailed on the Sovereign the year she was launched. 1988. She was the largest cruise ship built at the time. I have wonderful memories of that sailing. 22 family members were with me. I remember her being very elegant. Two years ago i was on Holland America's Zuiderdam in Nassau. The Sovereign was parked next to us, and it was a pleasure to see her again...
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Old March 14th, 2005, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

The Sovereign has a special quality. Like staying in a favorite hotel. it is a ship built for sun worshippers too. None of those cissy solariums.



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Song of America Dec '90
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Old March 15th, 2005, 12:42 AM
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Default Re: Ship is so old!

We were in Nassau in 2002 and saw the Regal Empress. It used to sail from NY. And go to Bermuda. We went on it three times The RE had and still might have a beautiful Cherry wood library. We havenít been on the old ship in quite some time. I remember the cabin being very warm as the air-conditioning wasnít very good. It did have character, wood handrails and you had to step up over most doorways. We kept cruising on it because of the low price.
On one cruise our toilet got plugged and we were moved to the honeymoon suite. Our young kids had their own room across the hall. I donít recall even the honeymoon suite even having a balcony. The staff was great but the ship was showing itís age even then.
We had some green stuff leaking out of the air duct on another cruise. We also got upgraded that time as well. It was renovated shortly after that and we always wondered what the ship looked like after the renovation. This must have been about 15 years ago. What affect does the salt water and time have on a ship and how safe is it?
Here is a picture of the LITTLE LADY in 2003.
All in all give me the new ships now
rick

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