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  #31 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 09:01 AM
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oops, duplicate post
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing gal
I do have to figure out how to use the quote feature.
Karen
Karen - to use this feature. In the boxes at the top of the post box (B, i, u, Quote), Click on the Quote box, then either type in what you want quoted or cut and paste it in, then click on the quote box, once again.

Hope this helps.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 01:58 PM
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During college I worked in a day care center after my classes were over for the day. At the time I also had 3 sons at home, a husband, housework, studying, laundry, bills to take care of, and grocery shopping, etc. Many times parents would show up late, unfortunately not all on the same day. No, they must have gotten together and worked out a plan to take turns, every other day or so. When I informed them of the late fees, invariably I would be berated to no end. One accused me of being rude for handing her the late fee bill in front of her child! (I assume the 8 year old already knew she was late as we were sitting together in an empty building for 45 minutes). Your comment about how burned out the staff seemed and your implication that they were lowly service personnel (later apology for that noted), disturbed me. I have yet to take my first cruise and will not need CC, however, I can imagine how difficult it must be for these people to take care of new children week after week, never really getting to know them and having very little "down" time. You were able to find out that CC was open in order to drop of your child and yet you were unable to note the closing time? Maybe she was rude and if so, it was uncalled for. However, the fact that you posted this to begin with after stating that you knew you were wrong, leaves me to believe, at this point, that there may be more to this story. I do hope you had a wonderful cruise with your son and that the worker is kinder to other parents who may forget their children.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 03:42 PM
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This is getting twisted and thats a shame, and some of you should know better.

Try playing mind games with those that will stand up to you

Karen, step back, you have said or done nothing wrong in what you presented,,dont get into another scenario of justification of what was a reasonable point.

Some of you hang your head in shame.

You see sometimes you need to look above personal attack and take into account mental attacks......You guys sometimes miss so much, but are quick on the old delete button when it is a blatant attack on the individual, but miss the BULLYING of the individual in reaction and post,,,,, but you'll learn

I bet some of you dont actually know or understand this reaction,,,well read from the post down, plus read other threads from the individual, make a picture in you head of the person and then react.

Doc, willing to debate your view on this. Where do we start Buddy? Plus who are you kidding " I dont want to been as",,,, and then you go for the throat.. !

Dear oh dear, sad, weak and just bully tactics against someone who did not deserve it. Going to have a look at your previous 41 post and see how perfect you are.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 05:17 PM
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Okay, had a look, do you do more than one liners when giving comment?

This appears to be the first opinion that was more than one line that you have given on CM. Great, but there are bigger targets out there than the one you decided to get vocal with. Oh yes welcome onboard
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Old November 19th, 2005, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidB
Doc, willing to debate your view on this. Where do we start Buddy? Plus who are you kidding " I dont want to been as",,,, and then you go for the throat.. !

Dear oh dear, sad, weak and just bully tactics
David,

It appears as though you want to get in a whizzing contest with somebody, well that somebody isn't going to be me.

In her original post after presenting her case, Karen asked two questions:
Quote:
Any opinions on this? Is a worker justified in being rude when the customer is at fault?
I gave her my opinion and also answered the rude question (albeit not until my second post).

You obviously do not agree and that is your prerogative. I certainly don't agree with yours.

The next time you accuse someone of using bullying tactics, I suggest you read some of your comments throughout the boards then take a good look in the mirror . . . you will find a bully.

And that is MY opinion.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 05:27 PM
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Denial is a terrible thing, me I know exactly how I respond or post. I'm an open book.

Never a bully, opinionated yes. Dont get them mixed up.

I only ever "target" those targetting either the individual for no real reason or groups of people, ie old, fat,. thin whatever. If I appear to bully them, fine they deserve it.

To answer your question, no. No member of staff in any organisation has any right to be rude to a customer, no matter the circumstance.

Plus this is not a court, you dont present a case for sides to take defence or prosecution, it's an experience of that individual.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 05:42 PM
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as a shipboard youth counselor this is something we encounter a lot and i guess it is hard to say who is right and who is wrong. i agree that the youth counselor should not have been as rude as you say to you---that much we all agree on. however you have to understand that while you're cruising as a passenger 30 minutes might seem like an insignificant amount of time....but for the crew member that 30 minutes is almost half of their break where they probably have 100 other things to do besides just eating their lunch. my point being(and this is for everyone who puts their children in shipboard youth programs)- it happens right? we're all late sometimes...but these girls are trying their hardest to show your child a great vacation and after several hours they need a break... the least you can do is be on time to pick them up.

secondly- "lowly service people" is TOTALLY unacceptable. many shipboard employees like myself are college degreed people who want to work in a job thats actually fun and doesn't ruin their life. we might not be making millions, but that doesn't give anyone the right to think they're better than us.
  #39 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 05:56 PM
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Okay, but some perspective here. The ships throw away thousands of dollars worth of uneaten food everyday day that their ship sails.

They have a waste factor second to none.

But, they cant employ enough people to cover the child, teen care? You're telling me that is down to one if not two people on shift?

The job and role of the individual fine, but the bottom line appears to be that if a parent is late, then that individual suffers as there is no-one else to cover their 30 minute lunch break. Hello, big ship, lots of people, children and staff, costs plenty to be there.

I cannot believe in that scenario that one individual cannot get their break. If so, its the lines fault for starting the problem, in not providing cover, not the vacationing parent or the individual child carer
  #40 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 07:33 PM
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Hi David,
Quote:
But, they can't employ enough people to cover the child, teen care? You're telling me that it is down to one if not two people on shift?

The job and role of the individual fine, but the bottom line appears to be that if a parent is late, then that individual suffers as there is no-one else to cover their 30 minute lunch break. Hello, big ship, lots of people,
This is a good point. Everyone that responds negatively seems to be concentrating on their own personal experience or twisting around a small section and highlighting it as the main point.
I have said enought throughout the thread to have made
my point and I see that I am getting dragged into a no win battle here. It is good to see that you al least see it on a greater scale than my individual experience which is pointless to have my character attached. I know who I am as a person so don't find it offensive.
Hey, David, you know I am just practicing for the next cruise.

To everyone in general,
I know I offended people with the lowly part so I looked that up to.
Lowly-
1. having a low position or rank in relation to others
2. humble in spirit
3. in a low manner
I don't find this description as offensive.
Karen[/quote]
  #41 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
as a shipboard youth counselor this is something we encounter a lot
So now we see this is a problem that needs to be addressed. You can let your supervisor know about it or maybe it is just more fun to be angry about it. I have a qustion for you. Why was there only one girl and why is there not a fill in person?
Karen
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Old November 19th, 2005, 07:51 PM
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I agree with Karen. While there are plenty of "excuses" to be rude, employees should have the training to handle these occurrences without being rude. I'm sure it's not the first time a parent has been late. Karen made a mistake and apologized. What else could she have done?

I'd wondered myself about the childcare being closed at noon. Do they really not have enough staff to cover lunch hour?

DocJohnB,

Unless you've been on these boards under a different screen name, you just have to get to know our DavidB. As he said,
Quote:
Never a bully, opinionated yes. Dont get them mixed up.
I don't agree with him many times, but he (usually!) presents a well thought out opinion. I happen to agree with him on this one.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 08:17 PM
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I agree with Lil917hi, you should not have been late to pick up your child. You knew the time, but it wasn't a priority on your list, where you really may have cost the employee some personal "down time" which can be rarely achieved. People who work on the ships work very, very hard!!

Maybe she should not have been so rude, but it might be an ongoing problem, and she certainly needed to vent....
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 09:12 PM
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"To answer your question, no. No member of staff in any organisation has any right to be rude to a customer, no matter the circumstance. ".... DavidB

This is the most ridiculous statement I've read in a long, long time.

Some parent comes into the daycare facility to pick up their child and starts spitting out "F" bombs in front of children and you think "No member of staff has any right to be rude?" Or, a customer walks into a movie theatre and starts yelling out profanities at the screen and you think "No member of staff has any right to be rude?"

Sheeesh.

Regards,
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 09:15 PM
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I could type for hours on times where I've had to grab a customer by the arm and escort them out of my bar. This would be considered rude, would it not?

Regards,
Thomas
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 10:20 PM
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Fern,

No, I have not been on these boards under another name. I don't post here very often, but I do lurk frequently. I have seen some of his other posts and my opinion remains unchanged, although I am willing to add opinionated to my description of him.

You wrote wondering about the closing of the CC at noon and the possibility of them not having enough staff to cover lunch hour. They may well not have the staff to cover lunch hour, or they may simply be setting up an hour for the staff to unwind a bit and get their lunches. Either way, would you not agree it is the ships call. I believe it has been noted that the times were publicized. Although the ship provides a child care center, this is NOT its' main focus. BTW I do respect your opinion as I do all opinions, I just happen to not agree with it and hope we can agree to disagree on this one.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing gal
So now we see this is a problem that needs to be addressed. You can let your supervisor know about it or maybe it is just more fun to be angry about it. I have a qustion for you. Why was there only one girl and why is there not a fill in person?
Karen
Karen,

As to the first part of you statement above: I get the feeling that this particular problem is discussed at length and often in staff meetings. The staff can't win. They certainly can't turn the munchkins out on the ship unsupervised because their parents "lose track of time", so they are stuck with watching the little ones thru their lunch hours. I think the staff should have the absolute right to remind the parents of the hours when they return late for pick-up. I will give you that it should be said in a professional way - but not too many people like to be told they need to abide by the rules.

As to the second part of your statement - I would guess there was only one girl and no fill in person because it was their posted lunch hour and the one girl just happened to get stuck that day.

On another point in another post you gave us some descriptions of the word lowly, then state that you don't find the description offensive. I am sorry but others would and do. Besides I really feel that you really do think it is offensive as you apologized earlier for using it and ascribed it to your past.

.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 10:39 PM
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Well said DocJohn

Regards,
Thomas
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old November 19th, 2005, 11:01 PM
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Thomas.
Quote:
could type for hours on times where I've had to grab a customer by the arm and escort them out of my bar. This would be considered rude, would it not?

Regards,
Thomas
I have to admit, that is a good one. Thumbs up on that. I guess there are circumstances where the staff has to be rude.
Karen
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Old November 19th, 2005, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
You knew the time, but it wasn't a priority on your list,
Jean,
Harsh words. Do you really think this? You as a mother should know that a mother would not knowingly leave her child past the time purposely. Anyway, I already stated that I did not know it closed at 12. I am sure they must have mentioned it at the orientation but I forgot and did not read the form well enough. There are reasons why I forgot that I just don't want to get into. It is the reason why I have decided to have only one child.
Karen
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Old November 19th, 2005, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
but not too many people like to be told they need to abide by the rules.
What is your point here?

Quote:
descriptions of the word lowly, then state that you don't find the description offensive. I am sorry but others would and do. Besides I really feel that you really do think it is offensive as you apologized earlier for using it
Well, I change my mind. Now you can't call me opinionated like DavidB. Lucky me.
Karen
See how well I am using the quote button. This is fun.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 03:22 AM
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Karen,

You did not know it closed at twelve? Didn't you ask or check the time they closed when you dropped your kid off??

I would certainly want to know what their hours were if they were holding my kid!! Just my personal opinion....hmmm.....
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old November 20th, 2005, 09:13 AM
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Right. I myself wonder what happened. I can't remember anymore exactly. Reflecting on it, I must have seen the break for dinner but missed the break for lunch. I might have asked the time and knew the 12 break but then forgot. One thing I learned from it is that it is important to get a good nights sleep. Your hmmmm lets me know that you have made assumptions about me. That I feel is the same thing that happened with the camp counselor.
I felt really bad about it at the time but know now that I can't beat myself up anymore when I make a mistake.
Karen
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Old November 20th, 2005, 12:07 PM
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hey everyone-

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing gal
Quote:
as a shipboard youth counselor this is something we encounter a lot
I have a qustion for you. Why was there only one girl and why is there not a fill in person?
Karen
There is no "fill in" person because the kids room was closed....how many girls do you want to stay just in case someone is late? when something is closed, its closed. 1 counselor, 1 kid- sounds like a good ratio to me...everyone else was on break.

i dont know why they close at noon- thats just the way it goes. if you're looking for a cruise line that has 24 hour child care- try disney. i think they're open 23 hours a day with one hour left out for cleaning. but i often wonder....if you can't bare to have lunch or dinner with your child between kids crew hours- why do you bring them in the first place? spend some time with your kids- you're on vacation...isnt spending time together the point of vacation?

and in response to these comments made about no crew member having the right to be rude to any passenger-----in theory yes this is true. really nobody anywhere has the right to be rude to anyone. but come on now---everyone has to remember that crew members are just regular people who have bad days and good days and get irritated with things like tardiness and ignorance. i cruise as a passenger too and i would never dream of treating an employee the way some of these passengers do. i know cruises can be expensive and for the price you pay you mostly are treated very well....but you are not buying a slave when you send carnival your $700 for a 7 day cruise.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 01:57 PM
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lil917hi I agree with your statement, "…you’re not buying a slave...." Some comments from posters...read like they feel the employee should be perfect. Whatever the cruiser/consumer dishes out they must / should accept with grace and poise. After all, that is what they are getting paid for. There is no reason for ANYONE to be rude, staff or passenger. Being rude isn’t just what we say but it includes our actions.

Crew ship staff work extremely hard, long hours and 90% of the time they are very gracious. But there must be times when they reach a very human boiling point. Remember, most of the time we are dealing with ONE on ONE with an employee...but they are dealing with many different passengers all in the same day...week after week. Now, if everyone was nice, no problem right? But there can be times when they feel hard pressed by being treated rudely all day, or by the fact that, it may SEEM that most passengers do not see them as a real person with feelings, etc. They may respond (not correctly, by the way) not as a employee, but as a fellow human.

Some people have various prejudices and don't even realize it. I don't mean just racial, but some are socially prejudice. They get in a position of power so to speak, e.g. employer vs employee, and abuse it. If the employee doesn’t cower, roll-over, jump through hoops, has an opinion, stands up for THEIR rights…their being rude, they should be fired, fined, etc. There are two sides to any situation. Why are you assuming that the caregiver WAS rude. Maybe it was a cultural misunderstanding? Even if it wasn't, why assume that the 'customer is always right?'

Just a side note: Many of the crew employees come from economically-depressed areas or countries. THEY DO NOT WANT TO LOSE THEIR JOBS. So most will go to great lengths to be gracious. A complaint would cost them dearly.

I personally have seen passengers yell, scream at crew staff. I saw a group of adult passengers scare a young woman crew member to tears with their abusive yelling over some minor incident (having to do with food no less!)

I mean passengers are rude to each other!!!

I am NOT saying the above in reference to SailingGal at all!! I'm just commenting in general to the posts that followed.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil917hi
hey everyone-

and in response to these comments made about no crew member having the right to be rude to any passenger-----in theory yes this is true. really nobody anywhere has the right to be rude to anyone. but come on now---everyone has to remember that crew members are just regular people who have bad days and good days and get irritated with things like tardiness and ignorance. i cruise as a passenger too and i would never dream of treating an employee the way some of these passengers do. i know cruises can be expensive and for the price you pay you mostly are treated very well....but you are not buying a slave when you send carnival your $700 for a 7 day cruise.
Excellent point lil917hi.

You know, another thing to remember here, is rudeness can sometimes be a matter of perception. No of us were there when the encounter between Karen and the caretaker took place. We have to rely on the fact that Karen feels that the caretaker was rude. But if a dozen people were to have witnessed that exchange, who knows. Karen asked me what my point was when I wrote:
Quote:
but not too many people like to be told they need to abide by the rules.
I simply meant that some people think that merely because they are reminded what the rules are that the person giving them the "lecture" is being rude. People, by nature, do not like to be told or reminded that they are/were wrong.

I, obviously, do not know exactly what happened in the exchange between Karen and the caretaker, but I will say this - with certainty. In 12+ years of cruising I have seen way more passengers being rude to staff, than staff being rude to passengers.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old November 20th, 2005, 02:54 PM
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There are 2 sides to every story. Not having been there to hear and see your exchange with this day care employee I wouldn't even venture an opinion regarding right and wrong. It's all about perceptions and body language. Having been in the business of working with the public in different capacities I can only tell you that everyone feels THEY are right. I laugh at many of the posts throughout the forums when I read messages that basically ask "Am I right?".

I'm sure this wasn't helpful but I thought we should put an end to guessing what the right answer is here. We simply cannot say.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 03:10 PM
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I have had a daycare bus. at home for over 10 years and worked in a afterschool program for 3 years. I have seen all kinds of parents. Some of them think they can take advantage of you...like going to the bank after work, picking up dry cleaning, aNd gocery shop for hour without a phone saying they will be late.k The best way in home bus and the school program is in the pocketbook, charge them a dollar min. They are never late again. In my daycare bus, if it continued, I would say I can't have your child come anymore. I was always polite and not rude. This Cape Carnival child cae worker should have not been rude to you. Child care wolkers in my opinion should be treated like GOLD. They are taking care of your most precious gifts.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 03:32 PM
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Fisch,
To be honest with you, I felt at the time the way Thomas stated above. Something about I was late and the woman let me know about it. That was the end of it except that I felt bad for a couple of days. I am sure another person would not bat an eye at her reaction and my being sad that she was mad at me was about me and not her. I thought it was an interesting opportunity for a discussion and to see how people think of it. I am not looking for a right or wrong answer for myself to figure out if I did something right or wrong. I only was curious to see how people would respond.
I have always had the tendency in the past to argue in favor of the employee and how they must be feeling. But after this occurence, I now think the employee shares the responsibiltiy to give the customer some credit at times. To assume that the customer is doing something out of disrespect for the employee is also just their biased assumption. I used to be rude to people when I worked at a department store. The reason was that I was burnt out. I don't have the personality to be around people all the time. I know that after I lost my temper at the store, I felt bad about losing my cool. I think that people who lose their cool end up feeling bad about it. That is why conflict training is imprtant and always should be updated.
I think to resolve the issue I would keep someone in the camp carnival for the hours between 12 and 1. This person can take her/his break earlier. I would even consider having two employees present between 12 and 1 and rotate lunch breaks for the camp employees.
Karen
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Old November 20th, 2005, 03:45 PM
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I have been on many cruises now and while I of course did not witness this exchange nor do I profess to know what happened hearing only one side, I can say that I very often hear passengers being rude and even crude and rude, I have very seldom seen anything that can be considered rude by the staff. They are not always right and they can be wrong and stubborn sometimes and even short but they try very hard never to be rude. As many of them are Brits you have to understand that they have a very strong attitude of what is rude and we Americans are typically quite rude to them, even while not meaning to. One of the statements I hear very often in chatting with my Brit friends is "Well how rude!". Crew try very hard not to be rude in any way and if they were they need to be told but we also need to look towards ourselves to often see rudeness.
Jim
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