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Sailing gal November 16th, 2005 03:12 PM

late Mom/Rude child care worker
Here is one to get some opinions. I was on a cruise and was late to get my son. I was a half hour late. I made an error on my part by assuming that the beeper displays on the screen when the child care area is trying to contact me. I had on a wet suit and didn't want to get the beeper wet. Well, the main point is that it was an error and I was not purposely being negligent.
The part I find troubling is the reaction of the woman who had to wait with my son until I got back. She was angry and told me that she missed her lunch because of me. She had me almost in tears because I was feeling terrible to have made the mistake and on top of that , she was rude to me.
I talked to my sister in law about what happened . She works with children at an upscale resort. She said that sometimes parents are late and it is inappropriate to be rude to a customer. She would calmly just explain to them that they would have to be back by a certain time.
I was so embarrassed that I just did not bring my son back as I felt that I had gotten off on the wrong foot with this woman.
Any opinions on this? Is a worker justified in being rude when the customer is at fault?

ousoonerfanintexas November 16th, 2005 03:56 PM

Maybe not justified in being rude what they should do is just do like when you have a child in day care and charge you 5.00 per minute for being late for a 150.00 charge I bet you wouldn't be late again. Now on the other end what if the worker was 30 minutes late in being there and you missed something I bet you wouldn't be happy now would you.

DavidB November 16th, 2005 04:24 PM

Okay whatever sooner, gees.

If my failing memory serves me right I think Banker had a similar scenario a while back, maybe not him but someone did. More to do with what they charged per minute if late.

Sailing gal, bottom line is no member of staff especially on a vacation based industry should nearly have you tears, bottom line.

I feel frustration on their part re job, employer and their limitations re the working day and breaks. But no way you take that out on the passenger.

See bud, from our other discussion, just sometimes you have to stand up for yourself, not to that individual. That would fuel a confrontation. But take it to the front desk, describe the scenario, see who they react as people with your best intention at heart.

They could have sent that person off ship at the next port, not your worry

Sailing gal November 16th, 2005 04:29 PM

I would rather pay 150 dollars and have a happy child care worker. Even paying 150 would not have made me feel better as a parent for being late and making that mistake. In other words, I was feeling badly enough to beat myself up. She did not have to add to it. Actually, your comment does not even bother me because I already find fault in myself. If she had been late, I would have compassion in my heart. I have missed shows because of people who are late.

I assume your message is that she is justified in being rude. I expect this kind of behavior in my everyday life. I mean, I do live in NY. I was caught off guard to be treated this way on a cruise ship. It was unpleasant enough to make a mistake to warrant not having it occur again. I am a rules and regulations type person. We are all human though,aren't we? Should we not forgive eachother for errors? I am not used to having this kind of anger so vehemently directed at me.

I think a more effective approach is to find where miscommunication may have occured and work to make things work better.

A person who handles themselves in this manner may not be the right person to be working with children.

Anyway, I view it is a learning lesson as my son is not in the pre K program yet and we do not use daycare.


Gigi K November 16th, 2005 04:34 PM

Well, maybe not $5 a minute, but I would have thought that they would have a policy in place for charging for late pick ups as well as staff training in handling touchy problems. And I would be surprised if late pick ups were not a common problem. You might have gotten the tongue lashing for about 50 other people she handled well over a period of time. And of course, no, she got nowhere by being so nasty. I would have offered a cash apology right up until the point she started venting on me, and then I would figure she made her point and left it at that. I like you would most likely not have taken my child back for fear that she would have been angry all week and maybe taken it out on my child. Human nature prevails and it isn't always pretty.

I admire you for not letting it ruin your cruise. That's the kind of thing that could keep me torn up for the rest of the cruise. But in this case, unless she was just having a bad moment, she is ruining her own health, life and peace by being so harsh on the people she comes in contact with and is probably no longer employed on a ship. She is punishing herself with her anger. I wouldn't have pushed the event any further because I couldn't foresee a good outcome for my child since I would definitely not have taken him back, but I might have written a note about it including her name on my cruise evalution card.

Gigi K

DavidB November 16th, 2005 04:45 PM

Sailin, was that aimed at me or sooner?? Just that I'm the one above your post

Sailing gal November 16th, 2005 04:52 PM

Hi GiGi,
That is how I felt exactly. I mean I was charged the $7 babysitting fee and I walked back to my room to get a tip but just never went back to give it to her. I was so upset that I avoided the area for a couple of days. If she had been kind, I would have given a big fat tip. It would have been very worth it for her to miss her lunch. My DH brought my son back a couple of times but the little guy just was not comfortable there. You know how it is when you can tell by the way your child is acting that it is just not a good envirernment. I have to admit that it did put a damper on my cruise to some extent.

When I see your name, I think I am talking to my MIL. My son calls her GiGi and her last name starts with K. Your not in your 60"s are you? LOL

Your thinking too how I was thinking. Maybe this lady was just not happy with her job. It was not a great childcare group and I hope to some day bring him when he can experience a better group of workers. I never said anything to the cruise staff because I was not sure how to handle the situation. I felt at fault also.

TechKnowBabble November 16th, 2005 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by DavidB
Okay whatever sooner, gees.

If my failing memory serves me right I think Banker had a similar scenario a while back, maybe not him but someone did. More to do with what they charged per minute if late.

BANKER? LATE?!?!?! NOOOOOO!!!! :shock: **snicker**

Sailing gal November 16th, 2005 04:58 PM

Hi David,
That was for Sooner. We must have been writing at the same time and I saw yours afterward. I really do have to get away from this computer. :)

Gigi K November 16th, 2005 05:29 PM

Sailin Gal,

Not yet, but approaching at what feels like warp speed! I'll be 40 next year. Gigi was my childhood nickname and Kay is my middle name.

That's exactly what I would have been afraid of, that my child would be made to feel anxious or unwanted as a result of the dispute. I would have handled it pretty much the way you did for the same reason. I came back on to post a P.S. -- what do you wish you had done?

Gigi K

Denny November 16th, 2005 08:01 PM

No way would I have let this slide. There is never an excuse for a cruise ship worker to be rude. I would have attempted to explain what happened, apologize and offer to pay any late fees. But the second this person started getting rude, this incident would have been moved to the pursers office for further discussion. We had an incident on Carnival with one of the Camp Carnival workers. Our daughter has a speech impediment and the worker thought our daughter was cursing at her. We were told not to bring our child back. They would not listen to explainations at all. We took it up with the pursers office, and lo and behold it was taken care of within minutes with everyone satisfied. There were no more problems. You asked for opinions so what I would do is write a letter to Carnival explaining everything. Good luck. Denny

Jim Bragg November 16th, 2005 09:11 PM

Rudeness is never acceptable. You should lodge a complaint concerning this. Also be advised that rudeness is not acceptable by 'either' party.

Sailing gal November 16th, 2005 09:32 PM

Hi GiGi,
Phew! I am glad to see that I am not talking to my MIL. :D

I wish I could have resolved it on the spot. I think that , as you said before, talking to her would have been a waste but I never gave her a chance. Maybe if I let her know that she was overreacting then she may have backed down and thought about how she was acting. I don't blame her for being upset but she picked the wrong person to take it out on as I was not leaving my child extra time to take advantage as maybe others would do. Anyway, honestly, even if a person is taking advantage, her behavior was out of line.

Maybe a letter will make me feel done with the issue. Unfortunately, it was some time ago and I do not remember the exact week etc. My expectation of the Camp Carnival program was not met and I will have some reservations about taking my son again.

What I don't understand is why someone was not in place to relieve this girl. As you mentioned, GiGi, it must occur often. I will write that as a suggestion in my letter.

Thanks for your responses everyone. I do appreciate it. Even you Sooner.

ousoonerfanintexas November 17th, 2005 02:00 PM

[quote="DavidB"]Okay whatever sooner, gees.

O.K. sure David cruisers should be able to do whatever they want. There are rules in place at least this person is takeing responsiblilty I am sure if it was you, you wouldn't care because hey rules were made to be broken.

DavidB November 17th, 2005 05:00 PM

Eh, okay I said the first line above in sooners rant

But you have posted your comment as part of mine, now that could be confusing, especially when I have never advocated the behaviour you describe.

Hello, okay you get on with your world and the rest of us will do the same.

Jim,,,subtle,,,, :) , point taken

Thomas November 17th, 2005 08:34 PM

I'll back Ousoonerfanintexas a bit on this one. Let me get this straight:

Mother comes back 1/2 hour late, imposing her lateness upon a worker who has now missed her lunch and is hungry. Hungry people get irritated. Rudeness on part of mother.

Worker continues to watch over late mother's child. Worker lashes out at mother for her lateness. Let's her know about her imposition upon her. Rudeness on part of worker.

Sounds about even to me!


Fieldmouse November 18th, 2005 12:23 AM

The cruise ship can help in situations like this by imposing late fees, and they should make them substantial.

This would relieve the caregiver of any hidden hostilities...after all she is going to be paid a good deal extra.

The late parent would know in advance that there are substantial late fees that will be charged to their ship account.

If this caregiver had another client waiting...and now she was late for that job...surely the other client would have also been very angery that her/day or event was ruined because this caregiver was late. If the shoe had been on the other foot, so to would SailingGal have felt? I mean, if she had a Spa appointment or ??? and this caregiver had been late BECAUSE another parent was late getting back, and now SailingGal's special appointment was canceled or set back because now SHE'S LATE.

Of course, none of this is really a big deal in the great scheme of things and there is really no excuse for rudeness on anyone's part.

I really believe that explaining upfront BEFORE the job starts that there will be an extra charge for lateness will help.

CruiseFuse November 18th, 2005 09:57 AM

It was an error. That's it. Once you apologized sincerely, it should have been nicely explained that you must make arrangements to be on time in the future. What's done is done. Berating you to the point of tears is pointless. Maybe it would have been better if, once the worker started in on you, you had pulled out a little tablet and pencil and asked, "And your name is?????" Then retrieve your child and walk away - straight to the purser's desk. I am sure that you aren't the first or last person to be late for a variety of reasons. I probably would have apologized and if she had been relatively understanding about it, tipped her for her trouble.

ousoonerfanintexas November 18th, 2005 11:29 AM

Fieldmouse you have a good idea but chances are a cruiseline has tried it, that came back to haunt them so no more.

I can imangine the CM gripe "I lost track of time and was 30 minutes late and the CL charged me 150.00 I mean I mean I could see maybe a 25.00 late fee but this is horrible." Well I will make their life miserable and will let 1000 people know never to use this cruiseline again.

People don't take responsibility for their part of travel as a TA I hear this all the time. Your website changed my reservation. "No you made it for the wrong date because you were not paying attention to what you were doing so now you have to pay to change it." The airline wouldn't let me board the plane because they said I was drunk, "Well then you shouldn't of been drinking." The airline shut the gate, now I am going to miss my flight and not make it to the cruise on time or go over to XX airline and have to pay 300.00 more that what I paid for the original ticket. "Then why didn't you get there 1 1/2 hrs. prior to departure." This is the best one. I am flying out of New York or Chicago in the middle of December or January, now the flight has been canceled and I will miss most of my cruise what can you do? "Well you could of flown out the day before or bought the CL air but you didn't so no this is on you. Lets us not forget the person that didn't buy the insurance and now has a illness and can't go so the cruiseline should make an exception. That is what the insurance is for.

DavidB November 18th, 2005 05:31 PM

Okay to some point I think it is appreciated by all regarding those that dump kids and how the lines have to deal with that problem.

But the bottom line is no cruise staff member, through frustration or whatever has the right to bring one of their paying passengers nearly to tears because of it,,,sorry and forget personal circumstances re why they are late,,that is wrong and very wrong. No excuse, sack them they dont have the people skill to work on ship.

Sooner, what can I say to you that will not get bumped, for nearly two years now I've swappped opinion with you. Not enjoyable, but I read it for entertainment.

But you cannot get away with some of this stuff. You react to people in a way they do not deserve (forget me), and always turn any discussion towards what you in your head think is a TA's perspective. I think most of us by now know that you dont represent real TA's. Personally for two years I have questioned that role you expect us to believe. Right or wrong

Fine, but do not hit some on here with your non "official" statements as if you represent that industry. You have a personal agenda, and have by getting involved upset some decent people asking or presenting a real scenario. Your response and tone is amazing, I mean it really is amazing. In all my years apart from the time I worked with cartoon characters, I have never experienced someone like you.

For people asking for advice or for help regarding cruising,,,do you think you help here?

Sailing gal November 18th, 2005 06:12 PM

As a business owner, I would think that you would view this a bit differently. There are better ways to handle a conflict between customer and employee then to say okay it is even.
I believe I was at fault but I don't think her response made it even. I think her response tipped the scales. If she acted very sweet and kind and I did not give her a tip, then I say it would have been tipped in my favor.
I did not realize there was a break at 12.

If this scenerio occured to someone else, I still would not think her response was appropriate. I have worked in the service industry for a long time and have the customer is always right attitude strongly ingrained in me.
I think many passengers would not have even cared if they were late. Maybe that is why she had such a strong reaction. I felt in a way sorry for her because it made me think about how she must be treated all day.
I would not want to take care of kids all day and then get a different batch every week.
By the end of the week she did say hi to me in the hallway so we had a reserved truce. I am sure she must have noticed that my son did not go back. It was a plus for all the other workers who do not get to see kids that much. They made such a fuss and also the other passengers. I think in the long run she did us a favor because Ryan spent time around people who were thrilled to see him. He had to eat with us and the waitress was thrilled. She had a little boy about Ryan's age and she felt closer to her son through seeing my son. Personally, I thought the childcare people seemed burnt out. I will give it another try some other time and this time I won't be late.

Jim Bragg November 18th, 2005 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by ousoonerfanintexas
"Well you could of flown out the day before or bought the CL air but you didn't so no this is on you. .

This is untrue as the CL has no obligation to assist you if you bought your air tickets through them and miss the ship because the plane was late etc. As a TA you should know this and tell clients. If you tell them that the CL is responsible when you buy the air through them then you messed up and YOU could be held accountable to get the to the next destination!

Thomas November 18th, 2005 07:04 PM

I deal with different personalities every day in my business and I've learned a lot about behaviors over the years. I no longer believe, as I did 10 years ago, that all people are truthful, upstanding, honest, kind, and cordial. This I've learned the hard way.

I have servers who come back into the kitchen in tears because customers have treated them badly. I do not allow them to react harshly to the customers and they know this. I try to ascertain what the problem is by talking to the customer and getting their story. It's easy for me, I just tell them I'm sorry for their inconvenience and give them their dinner for free and apologize profusely.

On the other hand, I've had customers who have put their hands on my servers while berating them in front of a packed house. I've had to remove those customers and will do so any time it ever happens.

Servers are not servants! They are people too. They have families, husbands, babysitters, mortgages, doctor bills, broken pipes, etc. Some people think because they are a paying customer the workers should take whatever crap is dished out to them.

I'm not saying you did that, what I'm saying is the parent in front of you might have without you knowing. The 3 parents in front of you may have. This person knows nothing of you. She doesn't know if you are a parent who is chronically late who doesn't give a hoot about the child care worker.


DocJohnB November 18th, 2005 07:57 PM

Let me get this straight. You lost track of time. You were 30 minutes late in picking up your child. The child caregiver missed her lunch. She brought this point to your attention in what you say was a rude manner (to the point that it almost brought you to tears).

And most people have agreed with you that what what she did was wrong. I am sorry, but I am missing something here.

You do admit your responsibility, yet IMO, you gloss over it by honing in on the supposed rudeness of the child caregiver. While I tend to agree with Jim B., if you feel she was indeed rude, then write a letter to CCL and let them know. But address your rudeness in the letter and rude you were. This caregiver has a life too. You (in essence) contracted her for x hours with you child, yet you waltzed back 30 minutes late and I would be willing to bet that you didn't even think about her point of view when you realized you were late.

This one really falls under the umbrella of "Personal Responsibility". You failed to take it.

Jim Bragg November 18th, 2005 09:35 PM

The Doc has bropught up a very good point. Always look toward yourself first before condemning someone else as being rude. While rudeness is inexcusable, it can sometimes be understood if only one looks into the mirror! I'm not saying this is the case or even that it is often the case, but there are times...

Sailing gal November 18th, 2005 10:52 PM

Actually, you got it wrong Doc. I didn't contract her for a set amount of time. I placed my son in the Camp Carnival and thought it was all day. The Camp Carnival, as I saw it at the time, is many gals(guys perhaps) working together to be with the children. My error was in not realizing that the camp ends at 12 and resumes at whatever time it resumes. Don't recall now. Maybe 1 or 2? I dropped him off at about 10:30, took a dip in the pool and then sat watching the beeper screen which was on the table. I was ignorant in how a beeper works. As I stated before, thought the screen would flash a call coming in message. When I picked up the beeper to go on my own to retrieve my son, I discovered it was vibrating. I was tired, you know that first day of getting on a cruise. The lump in my throat just came from knowing that I had made a grave error and felt bad. I do not expect sympathy and am actually surprised that not more people have responded as you have.
If you are a doctor, does that mean you get billed for the time that people sit in your office?

Sailing gal November 18th, 2005 11:08 PM

I respect your post but I have to say that I disagree with the rudeness on my part. Also the waltzing back to get my son part. If I did contract her for say two hours and waltzed back after three then yes, that is rude.
I would tell the cruise line that I was late in getting my son because I was ignorant about the procedures. I am guilty of that. I think being rude to an ignorant person is not warrented.
Of course I felt bad about her as for instance my Doctor feels bad about me sitting in his waiting room for two hours. No, I actually I doubt that. I think I felt a lot worse than how my Doctor feels about me sitting in the waiting room. Much worse I imagine as I know what it feels like to have to be in her position- a lowly service person.

Sailing gal November 18th, 2005 11:20 PM

I know you did not probably mean me but felt I had to say that I personally did not condemn her for being rude. Heck, what am I saying. Of course I am condemning her for being rude. The customer is always to be treated with respect. I am never rude to my customers and they certainly deserve it sometimes. It is just a part of doing business.


DocJohnB November 18th, 2005 11:36 PM

I don't want to belabor the point and become known as a flamer, because that is certainly not my intent, but I do want to make a couple of comments about your responses to me.

1) You in reality did make a contract with her (or the staff). Unfortunately, like many (including myself) you didn't read the contract (in a manner of speaking). Closing time was noon, you got back at 12:30. You say

If I did contract her for say two hours and waltzed back after three then yes, that is rude
. What is the difference - you were unreasonably late. You say

I was late in getting my son because I was ignorant about the procedures. I am guilty of that.

I was ignorant in how a beeper works.
, neither of which can be blamed on the caregiver. You were at fault here, not the caregiver.

Was she rude to you?? - I will take you at your word and assume she was. You wrote

I think being rude to an ignorant person is not warrented.
and I totally agree, but would add that being rude to anybody is never warranted nor is it acceptable.

But the thing that most bothers me is your last statement.

I know what it feels like to have to be in her position- a lowly service person.
Why would you even consider the caregiver of your child to be a lowly service person? Especially in the context of the whole sentence - as you apparently were a service person at one time in your working life.

Just for the record, I am not a Doctor (of any kind). Doc is a nickname I have been called for the past 45 years.

Sailing gal November 19th, 2005 08:43 AM

Doc writes-1) You in reality did make a contract with her (or the staff). Unfortunately, like many (including myself) you didn't read the contract (in a manner of speaking).

I appreciate your statement of it being a contract. The rude part still does not seem okay. For instance, a customer doesn't have everythiig I need so I drive to her job. Should I then get out of my car, storm up to her and say, "I had to waste my time driving over here and and now I will be late picking up my son." Customer then becomes annoyed at me for blowing out of proprtion. Or should I say, "Hi how are you Beth? Then Beth says, "Ok Karen and I am so sorry to forget what you needed." I say, "That is ok. It happens sometimes."

When you state what is the difference concerning why I was late and inferring that it is still rude also on my part, I took the time to look up rude. Maybe I did not have full grasp of the meaning of the word rude.

1. not couteous or polite
2. roughly built or made
3. without culture or refinement
4. rough or violent
5. primitively simple

Doc writes- Why would you even consider the caregiver of your child to be a lowly service person? Especially in the context of the whole sentence - as you apparently were a service person at one time in your working life.

You are right. That statement was uncalled for. It was just me looking in the mirror and not a reflection of her. I did not see her as lowly and quite the opposite.
I do have to figure out how to use the quote feature.

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