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Travel Gripes! Gripe about cruises or getting to one.(airlines, taxis)

View Poll Results: Should infants (under 2 years old) be taken on cruises?
Yes, they are part of the family! 60 32.61%
No, they won't even know they went! 110 59.78%
Don't know/don't care. 14 7.61%
We take a "nanny" with us on vacation. 0 0%
Voters: 184. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old December 2nd, 2005, 02:38 PM
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Yep, I know it's the parent's choice. I just don't understand how it can be much of a vacation for the parents to tend to the ever present needs of an infant. And put up with the disdain of other passengers when little Johnny starts acting up.

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Old December 2nd, 2005, 10:02 PM
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IMHO - Kids should not be taken on a cruise until they are old enough to be responsible for their actions. A baby cries for a reason - that baby does not realize crying could upset others - but it does get a great response from Mom and Dad - and rightly so. Once a child is old enough to enjoy such a vacation and realize that bad behaviour will not be tolerated and that it can bother other people - then certainly bring he/she along. That being said - many adults I have met on cruises don't meet the above criteria

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Old December 2nd, 2005, 10:13 PM
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I have no problem with infants cruising, ( it is a lot of work for parents, but that is not my problem) I think it is the kids between 2 and 5 that are far harder on other cruisers, tantrums , strollers etc. BUT, I fully support anyone to take any age child on vacation with them, it isn't my business to interfere in, and in 98% of cases I think parents do an good job watching their kids, there is unfortunately a small percentage who are lousy parents and do not police their kids.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old December 3rd, 2005, 04:29 PM
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Okay Doc, and I'm not into getting back into quotes, but here is my understanding.

My friend 4 years ago became a commercial airline pilot. One of the hardest tests he had to pass was controlling an aircraft in a simulator that was moving and spinning out of control, in his words " I had to stay in control and not become sick or pass out through the motion" So thats my source.

Two, you cannot present naval as an arguement regarding sea sickness on a cruise board. Correct me if I am wrong, but I imagine that most cruise ships are actually built to a higher standard of stabilisation than a war ship,,,as war ships need the speed and designers are not so worried about discomfort. They are more concerned about the lack of knots that introducing stabilisers have on a war ship. Navy versues cruise and how the ship or people react in seas or weather conditions does not meet.

So given your military experience of military ships I would accept that level of seasickness, but on cruise ships it dont work and the percentage you quote goes right out the window
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Old December 3rd, 2005, 04:33 PM
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makes sense to me David, like comparing a fighter pilot to an airline passenger

banker
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old December 3rd, 2005, 11:55 PM
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David (and Banker).

One - you do not have to be in a violent motion situation to suffer from motion sickness - (read up on motion sickness). One can become violently ill with very little motion. Ask your pilot buddy if he has ever heard of a pilot becoming airsick on a routine and smooth flight. Never mind, I will give you the answer - it happens.

Two. Absolutely can present naval as an argument on these boards in the manner I did. There are still more than a few cruise ships plying their trade (about the world) in the 25-35k ton range that do not have stabilizers and these things bob around like corks in moderate to heavy seas. Now, I will give you that these are not modern cruise ships, but then the author of the article we are discussing never said they were. He did say.

Quote:
Up to 100% of ship passengers become seasick under rough conditions
I do think that comparing naval vessels and cruise ships in this discussion is a viable option and is not as Banker suggests comparing a fighter pilot to an airline passenger. It is really comparing a ship to a ship.

I really think we have gotten so far off the original subject matter of "Infants on Cruises" that if you want to continue it, perhaps you should start another thread and give this one back to the original poster and her question. My apologies to Fern.
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Old December 4th, 2005, 03:39 AM
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I agree, the statistics post of yours Doc was interesting but did take the thread off topic (maybe because it was interesting in itself).

I don't think Fern is having sleepless nights over his thread going off topic.

I will say that a quote like "100% of ship passengers get seasick in rough seas" etc. is a little too absolute.

100% of human beings are liars. Really, every human being has lied about something at least once in their life. But, the original statement makes it sound like if a martian were reading it, it would think "my gosh! What a planet full of liars, I mean, 100% of them". In reality, most human beings are not liars, but have lied at least once..........you get what I mean.

The conclusion that one would draw from reading the statement may be very accurate, but not a very correct indication of the general truth of the statement (okay, those of you that know my posts know that I just confused myself again......)

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old December 4th, 2005, 07:38 AM
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Hi Banker,
Now I am confused too. I saw his thread and thought you meant this thread. Now I am thinking Fern is possibly used interchangeably as a man or womans name. So is it a typo or is Fern a he?
Karen
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old December 4th, 2005, 10:18 AM
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actually, I don't know if Fern is a he or a she. We know someone named Fern, and he is a "he", so I just assumed that the CM Fern is a "he" too.

Also, you're right, I was referring to this thread and Doc's post quoting articles with statistics.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old December 4th, 2005, 10:45 AM
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I know a Fern who is a "she" so is interesting to see if Fern is a he or she. Then I remembered a guy way back who I new named Fern.

Gee, I wonder if Fern from college has a baby now and goes on cruises.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old December 4th, 2005, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banker
I will say that a quote like "100% of ship passengers get seasick in rough seas" etc. is a little too absolute.

The conclusion that one would draw from reading the statement may be very accurate, but not a very correct indication of the general truth of the statement .

banker
Banker,

Only 'cause you said Fern wouldn't lose any sleep.

I do agree with you on the first part, but, it MAY be a possibility. So as part of a well written discourse it cannot be dismissed offhandedly with "Up to 100% is a great disclaimer in any poorly written paper, as potentially one person could react, but potentially everyone could." Statistics are fine, but can be manipulated to meet one's point of view, so while I find some interesting, I do not live and die by them.

Now as to your last statement. The scary part of it is, I did understand it and it does make sense. :o
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old December 4th, 2005, 02:51 PM
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Banker, the bit in italics is actually my quote. I don't want you getting confused about what you have written, especially if its the words of a drunk .

Great to see that for once it was not you or I that took this subject to where it has since gone. The Doc did that about ten posts above.

Bud, I aint competing, he is so good that I pass over the responsibility of wind up merchant of Cruise Mates to Doc,,,,enjoy

So lets start with an opinion, instead of a reaction and see how it goes
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old December 4th, 2005, 08:15 PM
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I'm definitely a she , although Fern is my screen name, not my real name! If y'all ever read anything but Gripes, you'd know that .

And I laid awake all night last night wondering how my Infant's thread got hijacked into a seasickness thread !

If a Gripes thread didn't go off topic, I'd be very worried about you all
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Old December 4th, 2005, 08:23 PM
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old December 4th, 2005, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
If a Gripes thread didn't go off topic, I'd be very worried about you all
Fern,
Ain't that the truth. And I am going to stick to the weather for awhile. So it just snowed today and ......(babbling on)

K

Well for this afternoon you were a he/she.
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Old December 5th, 2005, 05:19 PM
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I'm enjoying Doc being on here, at least I can debate opinion.

Not like you two who just give me grief,,, Sorry three, forgot Banker
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old December 5th, 2005, 09:54 PM
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And I was secretly hoping for some deeper statistical thinking(even if it did go off topic). Now there is an interesting topic. Then I could blow you all away with my linear statistical models.

K
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Old December 5th, 2005, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing gal
Then I could blow you all away with my linear statistical models.

K
Oh gawd. Yawnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!
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Old December 6th, 2005, 04:17 PM
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"Then I could blow you all away with my linear statistical models"

Okay, if thats chest measurements then DTW and I could comment Karen,. If you two are trying to be clever, then you won,,,,

HELLO, please keep in mind those us not so clever. But, hey I get it actually. So funny

Linear, (skinny, thin), statistical (can count to ten), models. Models now what are they?

Okay its the ability to walk but not to think or talk at the same time.

Okay I've got it, taking young children on ship can determine if they have it in them to be a super model?

Easy, next phrase please.
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Old December 6th, 2005, 06:20 PM
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old December 6th, 2005, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailing gal

Yaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!
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Old December 6th, 2005, 09:13 PM
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Hey Doc:
Do I recognize you from other boards ???

Regards,
Ben
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old December 6th, 2005, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tide Pride
Hey Doc:
Do I recognize you from other boards ???

Regards,
Ben
I have been on other boards over the years. So, could be.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old December 7th, 2005, 07:41 AM
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DocJ,
Your right. Just a laugh is a boring response to the above comment by David. I was taking the safe road. Believe me, I had some zingers lined up. Not lady-like though of me.

As for the yawn, you should be informed that I have been doing a little kick boxing. If you are not careful then my mediocre skills will make you think you are being attacked by a swarm of mosquitoes.

What is the gawd? I have been trying to figure out where that came from and then it had me thinking how people around the country say that word. Is that a New England accent? My Uncle from the South says Geeeeaaad.

Karen
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Old December 7th, 2005, 05:53 PM
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How do you say this, lets try it "Geeeeaaad",.

S..t, I just frightened the bejesus out of the dog!. What it means I have no idea, but since it's Karen saying it cant be rude .

Don't you go leavin those Zingers at home, if you think I need Zinged then do it.

Plus if Doc wants to yawn and catch flys instead of the point, that his problem
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old December 7th, 2005, 10:39 PM
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Hi David,
Geeaad is how they say gawd in the south. Oh Geeaad! Instead of Oh gawd! Okay , so no one could understand that Uncle.

Sounds like you have had some experience with linear statistical models. ( skinnys with heads filled with marshmellow fluff )

Next time I will have my zingers ready for you.

K
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Old December 14th, 2005, 07:03 PM
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Vacation is family time for us. It is when we can get away from work, housework, and other stresses in our life and focus on our kids full time. It doesnt matter if you cruise or go somewhere else, there will most likely be families with small kids. Ive found that infants are the easiest to travel with (exluding the diapers, wipes, etc-I nurse so no bottles to deal with) since they pretty much sleep wherever and whenever. Of course, Ive been lucky that both my kids are calm and well behaved, We will not allow our son to act up. If he does, we immediately leave the situation.

We started cruising when our son was almost one (hes now almost 4 and we are leaving next week for our fourth cruise AND TAKING OUR ALMOST 3 MOS OLD DAUGHTER). Yes he didnt remember it, but he did remember it the following year. I take pictures and we will look at them and talk about our trips. We knew ahead of time that he wouldnt be able to join the kids club, etc. It didnt matter to us. The joy of being with kids is to see their reactions to new experiences. It really makes you stop and pay attention to the basic things in life. IE-give a kid a box and a toy, chances are he will want to play with the box!

We skipped excursions and explored on our own-way more fun for us than being stuck in a large group for hours. We dont mind skipping out on the dining room (we used to go all the time but this trip we are eating when we want wherever we want).

We've taken one trip (company reward-Atlantis) without our son. While it was fun, we couldnt stop talking about him. The same went for other parents in our group.


So our family will be sailing next Friday-3+ yr old and ~6 mos old. We are going to have a nice, fun and relaxing vacation and not worry about what others think!

alison
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Old December 14th, 2005, 07:46 PM
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Hmmmm. Okay, so thats what you pay your vacation dollars for,,,but what about the other people on that ship that have to live it? With you and your children, dining area, pool etc etc.

Your tone is based around your experience, and around your personal expectation or just around you and your family and your escapism as in the first paragraph

Not all people that cruise have children onboard. So did your post look to the needs of your other passengers? Where did you mention I consider others??

Good chance you are a good and caring individual who know's when to take your screaming kid out of the dining room or scenario,,,the gripe is some don't and don't care about the rest of us,,,as I've paid and we are having our vacation.
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Old December 14th, 2005, 09:18 PM
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Hi alison,

You are the kind of parents we LIKE to see onboard!

Quote:
Of course, Ive been lucky that both my kids are calm and well behaved, We will not allow our son to act up. If he does, we immediately leave the situation.
(Note, she does "consider others", DavidB).

You aren't really "lucky" that you have well behaved children, you know how to handle the situations!

The only things I would object to would be if the children were crying next door to me all night, or if you took a "non-trained" child into the pool. It sounds to me like you wouldn't be one of those parents!

Unfortunately many, many parents are NOT like you .
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Old December 14th, 2005, 09:28 PM
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Fact of the matter is that many of the main stream cruiselines are targeting those of us who enjoy travelling with our children. Carnival has Camp Carnival ages 2 and up, offering group babysitting for infants 4 mos and up and, Royal Caribbean has the Adventure Ocean program and a program just for toddlers and their parents. NCL is offerring free 3rd and 4th passenger rates on certain sailings and Costa is allowing children 12 and under to cruise free they both offer kids programs too. Even the Queen Mary offers nannys to care for your kids. So if I had issues sharing a ship with families and especially small children, then I think that I would start searching for a cruise line that caters to a more mature crowd, such as Oceania. Oceania makes it clear that they do not offer any facilities for kids and it is not appropriate for the very young cruisers.
I am sure that if targetting the family vacation segment of the market was not a lucrative endeavor it would immediately be abandoned. However since I keep finding more and more incentives to cruise with my children, I will be cruising as often as possible... with my kids, and while you can bet I will do my level best to keep them on their best behavior, and I'll watch them like a hawk, but they are kids and they will be afforded the luxury to act as such. However, we do keep them in check the majority of the time. However they are small, quick and have a lot more energy than their father or I...sneaky little buggers.
You never know, taking your business to a less kid friendly cruise line may send a message to the mainstream lines if you find cruising with other peoples kids intolerable. But to be truthful they obviously made a solid business case to cater to those of us who cruise with our kids. On our last two cruises we booked two staterooms on one ship and a quad on the other. If we had been cruising without our kids there would have been only one room and no 3rd and 4th passenger fare. Also we took advantage of the late night babysitting at $10.00 per hour, we bought more pictures than we would have otherwise because our kids are so beautiful lol! I bet they make a small fortune selling soda to the kids.

So sadly enough many things boil down to dollars and cents...if cruising is affordable for families and offers a welcoming accomodating environment, you will find lots of kids, and as long as the cruise lines make money catering to families and they increase revenues and market share, I really don't think much will change. Although I'd rather cruise with a bunch of kids, than a boatload of old soreheads anyday.
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