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Travel Gripes! Gripe about cruises or getting to one.(airlines, taxis)

View Poll Results: Should infants (under 2 years old) be taken on cruises?
Yes, they are part of the family! 60 32.61%
No, they won't even know they went! 110 59.78%
Don't know/don't care. 14 7.61%
We take a "nanny" with us on vacation. 0 0%
Voters: 184. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old December 14th, 2005, 11:43 PM
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I believe that I will continue to cruise with a bunch of other old soreheads.

I really have nothing against well behaved kids, but in our current society many parents have no clue as to how to disclipine their kids and make them behave.

There are few things more annoying that little children screaming at the top of their lungs or running wild through dining areas or pool areas on ships. Well behaved children are a joy.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 08:25 AM
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I consider others when I remove my kids from the room/area when they act up. If I wasnt considerate Id just stay put and let them have their tantrum for all to experience. If I wasnt considerate I wouldnt be on this board reading all the complaints about kids and taking mental notes.

I am lucky-as I said before (and many others including strangers have commented on how good my kids are-in a calm way. Ive never had a colicky baby-they are very easy going and I can stop them crying in a heartbeat. Another example- my son tells us when he wants to go to bed (8-9 pm) and doesnt put up a fight. Hes been like that since he was around 18 mos-2 yrs. My almost 6 mos old daughter has been sleeping through the night since she was 4 weeks old. Yes a lot of their behavior is molded by us, but nature plays a role in it as well.

I dont allow my son to run around and I use a sling to carry my baby around on the ship (sometimes a stroller, but its a small one vs the huge travel system style that takes up most of the hallway). I prefer the sling especially when the elevators are so crowded. I can just take the stairs.

If the lines didnt want kids on board, then they would state that and not offer kids programs and baby sitting services. If I constanly worried about what everyone thinks, I wouldnt leave my house! We in fact do leave the house, almost daily. We eat out on the weekends, so my kids know how to behave in a restaurant. My husband works hard so that I can stay home with our kids, and so we can take nice vacations away from computers, phones, work etc. Yes we could go somewhere on land, but theres still that phone connection. My husband is in sales and wouldnt be able to get away from that stupid phone or computer on a land vacation.

I will agree that there are parents out there who dont control their kids. We are not one of them! I too get annoyed by screaming, misbehaving kids and parents who dont remove them. Last year in the hot tub a bunch of kids were coming in a out, splashing, etc. No one said anything, but you could tell they were annoyed. I spoke up and told the kids to stop it or get out. Well guess what-the one kid's parents were sitting right there in the hot tub too! I found out because they jumped down my throat for saying saying something to their kid. I basically said if you would do your job, I wouldnt have to. They got up and left, and I got a round of applause from everyone else.

We could open a whole other can of worms by discussing the inconsiderate, drunk adults running amuk on board. I just love being awakened by slamming doors, loud music, screaming, etc. Wouldnt it be nice if someone would remove them?

I am aware that others have paid for a nice vacation and I will do everything to be sure we dont interfere with that. I expect the same treatment in return. Please dont go all sour with us (or any family) just because you see our kids. You know the saying-don't judge a book by it's cover!

alison
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 10:05 AM
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Allison,

Well said. I would consider you and people who think like you to be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem.

Kids are going to be kids no matter where they are. It is their parents who must adjust their exuberance/bad behavior, because kids are not going to do it on their own.

As a so called senior, I enjoy being around well behaved children. I have engaged (with parents approval) some of these youngsters in conversation and actually learned some things from them. I do not like being around ill behaved youngsters (of any age). It happens, but I don't like it.

I have 2 adult kids and 3 grandchildren. My kids knew how to behave and they knew the consequences of misbehavior. Same goes for the two oldest grandchildren. Not so, the youngest. At times, it is not a joy to be around her. But, even she knows, that when she is with me, there will always be consequences for her misbehavior. When she is with her parents, I sometimes feel as though they have abdicated their responsibilities to her and it saddens me.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B
There are few things more annoying that little children screaming at the top of their lungs or running wild through dining areas or pool areas on ships. Well behaved children are a joy.
Paul,

See my reply to Allison: I agree with you 100% and with that last sentence 150%.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 10:24 AM
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Default unconsiderate

Thats what I call most people who drag their kids on board.

My parents didn't vacation until I was old enough to be left with my grand parents. And they did vacation without us kids twice a year.

Later when we were older we vacationed as a FAMILY to FAMILY APPROPRIATE destinations. Disneyland, local beaches with amusement rides, etc. By the way we never flew until we were at least 8 or 9 and had to behave because if we didn't we knew what would happen.

Our first cruise was around 16-17. At that point there really were no programs for kids, however we already learned to BEHAVE by being weaned into it and conditioned to act a certain way in public. If we screwed up we might be dropped from the next vacation.

The other end of the spectrum. elderly parents. as we got older our parents still vacationed twice a year maily to Hawaii, and we watched our grandparents. Okay, this is going to sound bad...really bad to most but its true.

We were told what to do if something were to happen to our grandparents. Basically we were told to have them "Put on Ice" and not to disturb our parents vacation. The reality of it is , if they did die, why should my parents vacation be cut short when there is nothing they could do to stop or change the situation. I recently encountered this on a cruise with a couple whos elderly parents were ill and they were on their cell phone EVERY 10 MINUTES.. How F#$%^&g annoying to everyone. If they are that bad...STAY HOME!

Anyway, Families with children, especially infants expect SPECIAL rights, which they assume as courtesy.

-Strollers SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED ON BOARD. carry the kid or don't bring it. I cannot stand having to navigate these contraptions in the elevators, in the buffet lines, waiting for the parents to belt in and unbelt the kid while holding everyone else up., blocking the gangway, etc

-Screaming and crying. If I as a paying passenger screamed, and cried all night I would be removed from the ship at the next port....SPECIAL RIGHTS...infants can yell and scream all they want and disturb everyone.

-Dirt diapers. Well, If I **** and pissed my pants on deck every day stinking up the area and making it VERY UNSANITARY I think the staff as well as the passengers would try to correct the situation ....but babies are allowed.

-Dining room...CHILDREN UNDER A CERTAIN AGE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED PERIOD. choose casual dining or eat in your room. I have had food thrown on me. things spilled at the tables around me. One child even climbed onto a table while the parents took pictures..."How Cute" they thought to the horror of the passengers around them. children spitting up. and once again. the table next to you where the kid drops a big load and the stench ruins your dinner.

Okay, I'm not saying children shouldn't cruise, but cruise on an appropriate line. Disney, and most Carnival are great lines, RCCL also. These lines actually build, or try to build their facilities for younger people. Look for the skating rinks, the rock climbing walls, the seperate CHILDRENS POOLS. Please make your decision based on your children...not your preferences. At this point you are there for your children, your children are not there for you, and niether is the patience of the other passengers.

Consideration starts with the parents instilling good behavior, good behavior is not immediate it is learned. Make sure your kids know what is expected of them in an adult situation and don't expect the adults to understand your children....they are yours, not theirs.

Dave
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 11:11 AM
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bububr, I was going to dignify your post with a thought out response, but I don't think I will.

The only thing I will say is "tough"!

Live with it.

I don't believe it is your right to tell me what is "appropriate" or not when it comes to a "kids appropriate" vacation.

I'm sorry, but I can't take your post seriously.

banker
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 12:15 PM
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Seems from your previous posts that you have made all of the right decisions and have been very respectful of your fellow passengers.

However, stateside here many are not as versed in travel and etiquitte as you seem to be.

My dogs are extremely well behaved and I would hope if I paid full fare for them that they would be able to come with me. HOWEVER dogs are not allowed on most ships unless they are "Working "dogs , and I would never subject others to them who may or may not like them regardless of how good they are because "dogs will be dogs" . In other words when I travel I try to be respectful of the fellow passengers around me. Guess what "Kids will be kids" but that doesn't mean I have to put up with the noise and inconvenience just because you are paying full price for your infant to travel. maybe next time I hear a screaming baby in a cabin I should go over and pound on the door till it stops declaring passengers rights.

The purpose of my post was to share a belief of standards I feel would benefit both the child and childless cruiser, not to ban children from family vacations.

There are a few motels in Wisconsin that allow pets, and post this in their advertising. When I travel with my dogs I go to these places and seek out other venues where I can be with other dog owners , and my dogs can 'play' with other dogs...I do not take them to places where we would be or feel unwelcome. It would ruin the experience for everyone.

as far as 4 and 5 year olds...as long as they are potty trained ,act like little adults, and have their parents watchful eye...I have no problem. But if they fall in the pool and drown because the parents are too busy at the bar, don't expect me to get off my chair and rescue them...they're not mind and I really don't care.

Dave
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bububr
There are a few motels in Wisconsin that allow pets, and post this in their advertising. When I travel with my dogs I go to these places and seek out other venues where I can be with other dog owners , and my dogs can 'play' with other dogs...I do not take them to places where we would be or feel unwelcome. It would ruin the experience for everyone.
I agree completely that parents should seek out vacation destinations that welcome their children. That is exactly what they are doing when they cruise on any of the mainstream cruiselines (Carnival, Disney, Princess, NCL, RCCL, Celebrity). All of these lines welcome and encourage children with children's programs and heavy marketing to families. Celebrity, a cruiseline that is often thought of as being more adult-oriented, even has in-cabin babysitting for babies too young for the kid's program.

Maybe those who dislike cruising with kids should seek out a cruiseline better matched to their tastes rather than get onboard and complain about there being children.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 01:33 PM
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I appreciate your compliment regarding my knowledge of travel and etiquette, but I don't know what knowledge and etiquette has to being with being stateside or not??

I don't think I would compare taking a dog to taking a child on a cruise. A child is a human (most of the time) and dogs are not.

If you can deny a child using the same argument as you did with a dog, then you can apply the same argument to other people as well. My dogs can't go, and infants can't go, so people from Iceland can't go either. Icelanders are well behaved, but sometimes they aren't, so we shouldn't allow then on a cruise out of courtesy for other passengers.
Oh, and if an Icelander has a heart attack then that's his problem, I won't be bothered giving him CPR.

banker
(No Icelanders were harmed or offended during the creation of this post)
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 02:13 PM
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Default don't think you completely got my post...or I'm not sure?

My reference to dogs vs children was not to say that they are pets but to assimilate the the behavior in training. You teach a dog to sit and he is supposed to sit on command. the same with a child. You ask them to please be quiet, and they should obey. although my dogs listen 99% of the time they still defy me that other 1%. So taking resonsiblity and being a "good parent" so to speak, I schedule my outings accordingly. I feel parents should also act accordingly to their children and not just drrag them on a vacation that may be adult oriented at times. Would you take your kids to a "R" rated movie just because you wanted to see it and didn't have a babysitter.

As for knowledge and etiquette: I live in the US, I also travel extensively.
My comment was based on the fact that I have seen/tend to see/almost expect many Americans to be rude and unconsiderate when in another country. Especially when English is not the language of the destination they are visiting. Most foreign countries school their children in at least 2 if not three languages including English so that they are better equipt in the world. The US is far behind in that manner. Many other countries also incorporate other traditions in their teachings. We are mainly Baseball, hotdogs, and apple pie...no substance. Of all the outburst of children and rude parents I have seen it has weighed on the American side. I rarely see folks in other countries with attitudes and unconsiderate behavior that most Americans exhibit. This could also be based on the fact that I am just visiting instead of living there on a day to day basis.

I have seen and left upscale restaurants because of loud misbehaving children and rude folks on cell phones. People just don't seem to have common courtesy anymore.

Deny: I'm not denying anything...I am making a suggestion to be smart and considerate of those around you. Remember I can use the same arguement" I paid for my cruise and It should go the way I want"...whats good for the goose.....

Icelander? thats like comparing apples to rocks...it makes no sense. However if you had said denying Icelandic children as well as all childen and dogs...that might be like comparing tangerines to clementines.

The bottom line is that if an adult were to exhibit some of the bad behaviors that some infants and toddlers exhibit on some of these cruises they would be disciplined and possible removed at port. ( and they have been )....Children have not, nor have their parents. This lack of equality in following good behavior policies only promotes BAD BEHAVIOR and allows the cycle to continue.

By the way if an Icelander had a heart attack I would act to save them, as well as if you did..or any other adult. But my point was if an uunsupervised child, which there tends to be many, gets injured...its not my responsibility to help that child, that responibility falls on the parent who should be supervising them .

Dave
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 02:36 PM
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Banker Bravo!
If kids in their little strollers encroach on Dave's space in the elevator, what about the elderly who cannot handle all the walking and navigate in slow motion in wheelchairs? Do you feel as though they should be left at home as well... Why are Dave's right's so much more a priority than everyone elses?

As for Dave's claim that parents who drag their children onboard a ship are "unconsiderate" as I reflect on the three cruises we took our kids on this year, I can recount numerous episodes of bad , inconsiderate and rude behavior of adults and only a handful of episodes involving children. By and large I witnessed children who much more well behaved than the adults they cruised with. Also when the children were corrected, there was an immediate cease and desist of the offensive activity, however the adults just didn't quite understand or care how rude and offensive their behavior was and continued to be a nuisance. For some reason people expect better behavior out of the kids than they do from adults? Yes you might encounter the occasional crying infant at dinner (I have only seen this once on our last cruise on the Liberty) and the parents got the child calmed down, no big deal.
Truthfully no one is the center of the universe and a little caring, understanding and consideration goes a long way on both sides of the argument. However, if I see anyones child or grandparent in the pool drowning I will get off my chair and save them because my parents taught me that was the right thing to do...and I do care. (By the way my parents took me on vacation with them from a very early age, my father would set up large conventions for the heating and air conditioning industry and would let me tag along when he went to check out new resorts) and when my grandparents died we stopped what we were doing (vacations, work, school and all) and went to make their arrangements and pay our final respects, not put them on ice, until it was convenient.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 02:38 PM
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Dave, I disagree with your statement about Americans. I am not an american, so take it as objective, are no more or less rude including children. I also disagree with the apple pie/no substance comment. I travel a lot to the US and actually a lot of substance in history, civil rights, entrepreneurship, constitution etc I don't really know where you're coming from there.

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  #73 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 02:45 PM
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- get rid of kids because they are inconvenient -

- get rid of old people because they are inconvenient -

SHEESH!

banker
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 02:57 PM
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Are there no work houses ? Are there no prisons? By God, that is not Dave, reveal yourself Ebeneezer!!

K
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 03:11 PM
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Default I believe its okay to disagree

Well,

I am an American. And I accept your position to disagree.

Everyone has different experiences, some good, some bad.

If there is a car accident at a major intersection with 50 witnesses, you are bound to get 50 slightly different accounts based on where they were standing and how much they were paying attention. This of course doesn't eliminate the fact that the accident happened.

We are all entitled to our opinion, and we are all entitled to our freedom to do and choose. However when one persons freedoms infringe upon anothers freedoms...we start to have a problem.

ANY family with one infant to 12 kids is entitled to go on a vacation of their choice, a cruise for instance. as long as all of the individuals act appropriately (includes adults) there is no problem. However if the infant screams nightly into the we hours of the morning and wakes the cabins surrounding , there IS a problem. This most likely won't happen with older children, or adults. Knowing this MAY happen or at least WILL, WHY would any considerate adult/parent do this to ALL the other passengers? If a baby fills his diapers at the pool should the parents change the diaper on deck? and if so if I crap my pants can I expose myself to everyone with my cute little weenie to change my shorts?

I do not dislike children, I just dislike misbehaving children with unconsiderate parents. There is a differance.

As for my personal opinion. It looks like at this time the poll being taken is against infants on board, so I am not the only one.

And yes, MANY, MANY ADULTS behave badly also. I have seen it a few times. However I have never seen then screaming at the top of their lungs uncontrollably, throwing food, racing around the deck and pool areas, wearing diapers in the hot tubs, etc.... I have seen them very drunk, very rude, very crude, and obnoxious. However as I said, the true offenders get thrown off or disciplined...the children get looked at with a blind eye by the staff.

This discussion reminds me of another post. Should Pax be told if there's a large group on board. Many say yes, as well they should notify or keep track of children to be onboard so us childless cruisers would get a heads up.

Dave
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 03:23 PM
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I dont believe I ever said get rid of anyone because they are "inconvenient".

This whole conversation is about appropriate behavior and consideration of other passengers.

ANYONE including infants, adults, teens, toddlers, ANYONE who does not act respectfully and appropriately SHOULD be removed from the ship or at least given a warning. That includes ME also.

ANYONE with a tendancy to exhibit rude and disrespectful behavior should think long and hard about who they are taking and who they are vacationing with and know the consequenses. That includes ME also.

Any questions?

DAve
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RCL Monarch OTS - Ensenada 01/11/07
Celebrity Zenith - W. Caribbean 03/23/07
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old December 15th, 2005, 03:54 PM
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Dave-

Shouldn't the word be INCONSIDERATE not unconsiderate? I don't drag my kids on vacations. My son asks constantly-when are we going back on the ship (or Disney World, etc). He loves traveling. He first flew when he was 6 mos old, and that's old by today's standards! He didn't cry either. He basically fell asleep, and during take off and landing I made sure he was sucking on his pacifier or nursing to help with the ear pain.

I don't know how old you are, but when I was younger (I'm 35 now), we traveled to Disney World when I was 3. I remember it -partly my memories, and partly from photos and stories my parents tell me. People still got dressed up when the flew on planes too. Times have changed-vacations are geared more towards families of all ages these days. And it just so happens that RCI cruises (like you mentioned) are a family apporpriate vacation since they advertise it as such. My children too are being weaned into traveling, and being out and about just as you were. The only difference is that we are doing it at an earlier age.

As for the bit about the ill parents and not enjoying a vacation-I will agree with you. If my dad was very ill, I would postpone a trip to be with him. My mother was very ill and died from cancer a few days before my husband's step-sister was to be married. I was in the wedding. I was a mess, but there was nothing I could do. I kept my promise and stood in her wedding.

I don't expect any special treatment wherever I go just because I have a baby. If someone wants to go out of their way to help me, I am grateful for it and am sure to thank him/her. I manage to take care of my baby (and my son) on my own, 24/7 at home with little help from anyone else. My expectations don't change just because I'm on vacation.

As I've said before-Like you, I don't like screaming/out of control kids either and I expect the parents to take control. I've seen adults scream and cry over the stupidest things-who's the baby then? As for diapers, I change my kids' diapers in the cabin, and I try to catch it as soon as it happens. I don't want my kids sitting in it and stinking things up, believe me. I bring my own bags to wrap them up tight. It doesn't bother me, but I know it bothers many others, including my husband. I will not subject others to that! Hate to break it to you-adults (not me-but I've worked as a lifeguard so I've seen it) pee and poop in the pools (and their pants) as well. Some can't help it, while others are just to lazy to get out and use the bathroom. Those are usually the drunk ones and find it amusing.

If I didn't think my kids were fit for travel, then we wouldn't be traveling. Kids, babies, adults- we all have meltdowns from time to time. Some are able to handle it, others are not. Unfortunately, not all parents think in the same terms as I do (or they think they do but really don't). If we all did, then this thread wouldn't exist (how boring would that be! Some people just can't be pleased no matter what the situation. What a miserable life that must be! My mother-in-law is like that and my 4 yr old son has picked up on it. He now hates going to visit her. Life is too short to live like that-my kids are my pride and joy, no matter how they act. I know that I am there for them, and I always will be. If that wasn't the case, than I never would've had them!

alison
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Old December 15th, 2005, 04:11 PM
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Did I say something last night?

Banker nice to have you back bud, but the other Dave makes some good points 8)
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Old December 15th, 2005, 04:55 PM
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yes and no...its my version of unconcerned mixed with inconsiderate...a made up phrase like 'activist judges'.

You sound like the kind of family cruiser that knows their children and is considerate to others. I would be happy to cruise with you and your children.

But I think you are in the minority.

My point was cruise appropriate. If your kids are going to be great and are good at traveling and you watchover and take responsibility take them on a Crystal Cruise by all means...but you are one of the exceptions and I think you'd agree.

By the way, some lines like Celebrity DO NOT PROMOTE family vacations, they offer services for passengers with children. They do however advertise the line as a more adult cruise, and it has been since its conception. RCCL ( same company as Celebrity) does however not only advertise family cruising but has venues appropriate for younger cruisers..Jonny Rockets, skating rinks, rock climbing walls, water parks...etc...The same goes for Carnival (now that they have taken over costa Cruises they have made then cheaper for families and sometimes free for children). I have not sailed but have heard there are few children on the QE ships, and the advertising seems to be to adults...of course they are also Carnival/Cunard as an example.

Just as I would not book a Disney Cruise because I know it would be full of kids, I would hope that families with young children would not book a Celebrity, Crystal, or QE cruise. No one says they can't, but they are cruise lines that traditionaly cater to couples and older adults...not families with young children.

If I were a parent, I would want to book a cruise with parents and younger children like me being the majority. Common themes, kids to play with kids etc... I wouldn't want to be in the minority on a ship unless my kids were so well behaved that we blended into the woodwork.

Quote:
my kids are my pride and joy, no matter how they act
there are a lot of parents out there that feel the same way, the problem is that their pride and joys are others headaches ...and they are blind to that fact.


We have a lot of the same concerns, and sounds like we have shared some of the same experiences. Too bad we can't screen people to be parents, we might have a lot more considerate folks like you.

Dave
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Old December 15th, 2005, 05:56 PM
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DavidB, the other guy's name was "Dave".

That was enough to get me going !!

banker
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Old December 15th, 2005, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banker
DavidB, the other guy's name was "Dave".

That was enough to get me going !!

banker

Jumpin Yimminy, two Dave's, crimeny!!!!!!!
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Old December 15th, 2005, 11:22 PM
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Should infants go on cruises with their parents? Absolutely.
Yes it would be nice for a break but at the same time if you are breast feeding there is no way my wife is going to store a weeks worth of breast milk for our child. When we went on our last cruise we left our 2 year old at home with grandparents and my wife had a really hard time with then. Next time we cruise we will have both our children. True we wont be able to do as many excursions but what is a family vacation if you are stuck worrying about your loved ones at home all week.
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Old December 16th, 2005, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
If I were a parent, I would want to book a cruise with parents and younger children like me being the majority. Common themes, kids to play with kids etc... I wouldn't want to be in the minority on a ship unless my kids were so well behaved that we blended into the woodwork.
I think if you have children then you would feel differently. Children are not something to be avoided like the plague. They are a part of our society and should be treated like children. Sometimes people have to remind me that my son is only three. It is the same with any children. Let them be children. I think the reason that our children in US are not as well behaved is because both parents work and are too tired to take care of them. They leave it up to the daycare. Also. we live in our houses and don't get involved with the neighbors. Your attitude of "keep away" just fuels into the attitude that it is not my responsibility. We should all watch out for children. Take the time to step out of your box.

K
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Old December 16th, 2005, 06:32 PM
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Chidren are children and as children they as little people do not understand adults and how adults think re accceptability.

So their sense of right or wrong and guidance for their mind set is,,,their parents. Hey they live with this lot 24x7, so why change for a 7 day stay on a ship?

Some parents give a damn, some dont. Its the parents out there that just dont give a toss that this is all about.

Don't blame the wild child, they are only a reflection of some adult that does not give a toss about anyone else.

Unfortunately they have found the money to go on a cruise and let the rest of us social people see where they went wrong as parents, but they dont care.

Not directed at anyone on here, that's the sad thing those I am aiming at do not have the itelligence or thought process to even take part in this debate.

So you are left with intelligent, like thinking people beating each other up, when the real culprits slope off. And we as intelligent people make all their excuses
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Old December 16th, 2005, 07:13 PM
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I agree with the Bub Dave but think he is extreme. I'd see the pooping pants part over misbehaving kids anyday.
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Old December 17th, 2005, 03:05 PM
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We must have got a canning last night and things have gone, as this dont read right
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Old December 17th, 2005, 04:44 PM
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David,
I thought maybe you are referring to my post not making sense.
Quote:
I agree with the Bub Dave but think he is extreme. I'd see the pooping pants part over misbehaving kids anyday.
I don't think anything was deleted by the moderators. Your post about us argueing and we are on the same side is true. I think some, including myself, felt Dave was a bit extreme in his thinking. That was what I was trying to say. We are on the same side but he takes it to the extreme with his opinion.

I added the pooping pants part because of this statement by Dave.

Quote:
If a baby fills his diapers at the pool should the parents change the diaper on deck? and if so if I crap my pants can I expose myself to everyone with my cute little weenie to change my shorts?
I would love to see that happen after a rum punch. What a laugh that would be. Much funnier then a kid out of control.

Karen
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Old December 18th, 2005, 10:14 PM
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As I said before, we've had a few experiences with babies and small children on board ship...it was NOT pleasant.

Once on RCCI to Alaska...the children, and there were LOTS of them, were left to run wild and unsupervised. Screaming, throwing things off their veranda's into the ocean and sometimes on to passengers heads.

Unfortunately, I've found that MOST parents do not want anyone to tell them or their children anything. So its not that we don't want to be involved...we aren't allowed to be involved, we don't dare be involved!

Most cruisers that frequent the Cruisemates threads love cruiseing and WILL go the extra mile to ensure that other cruisers enjoy the venue. So there are exceptions...but really, truly these are the exceptions!

We don't dislike these 'little people'...but, when they are not supervised, trained, disciplined (and I don't mean corporal punishment!) they are unpleasant to be around. Parents should take others and themselves into consideration before booking a cruise with small babies or children. It may NOT be an appropriate vacation choice.

If one of these unsupervised 'little persons' runs and knocks down an elderly passenger and injures them, maybe badly...will the parents assume responsibilty? Pay the medical bills? Or will the parents say, "look, stuff happens, it was an accident, sorry." That answer may not be enough for the injuried passenger or their family.

To quote Sailing gal. "I think if you have children then you would feel differently. Children are not something to be avoided like the plague. They are a part of our society and should be treated like children."

I agree, and with that thought in mind...maybe they, children, should be on a vacation geared for young children. Not cruising on ship surrounded by strange noises, and lots of strangers, sleeping in a strange room (cabin), eating at a dining room table with adults, who really want to talk about adult stuff, unless they have children too.

Most small babies and children like the comfort of familiar surroundings, people and a routine.

Just a thought.
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Old December 19th, 2005, 01:30 AM
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Gosh I have yet to see herds of children knocking over innocent) old folks. Going on about injuries,and payments etc. how disgusting! Money money money. I am sure that the number of old people injured by children is next to NIL, yet seniors regularily trip up on their own two feet and hurt themselves!! No one to sue for that though is there. ?Lets blame kids.

I have seen old folks elbow in front of kids , I am SHOCKED at how rude some seniors are to children.

Fieldmouse, your line of thought re kids being on a cruise with strangers, in a strange place etc. makes no sense at all.
All vacations are about NEW experiences, especially for children. You are not concerned about them at all, you bascially believe that most young children are trouble, trouble to you anyways.
I find some seniors very unpleasant, yet I have yet to start a post saying old folks should stay home.
That would be bigoted. Wouldn't it? Hmm.

I DO NOT FOR ONE MINUTE BELIEVE THAT GOOD KIDS ARE THE 'EXCEPTION" I BELIEVE "BAD " KIDS ARE.

BTW I am 44 and my kids are 9, 13, and 15, and they have yet to knock anyone down, and they are not freak exceptions. They are nice regular kids.
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Old December 19th, 2005, 07:07 AM
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I was just thinking that when I took Ryan on the cruise-the litle guy in the picture.(2 years old then) the people who made the biggest deal over him was a group of about 4 or 5 senior couples. Whenever they saw Ryan they called him the little jazz man because he was dancing to the jazz music.

I found myself moving towards them when I saw them anywhere because they made us feel welcome. I think now maybe they connected with him because they make up groups who are made to feel not as welcome and not needed in society-the very young and very old.

Karen
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